List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Blue Heart]

Guarantee that Nick Graham will improve enough this off-season that we'll never see him in a red or green vest again.

I bloody hope so ... as that green vest is a confidence killer IMHO and if not rotated between several players it also seems to effect your match fitness.

Actually I believe I should be talking in past tense as it would appear that the sub. is out for 2016 ... is that correct ?

 

[Sheephead]

who's written menzel off?

I have! I reckon he's more a liability than an asset. When he doesn't have the ball, he goes missing. Compared to the Hawks small/medium forwards he has no defensive presence which is tantamount to success in modern footy. I'd trade him now while his currency is up if a good deal came up. Adelaide were reputedly interested late in the season. If they were happy to pony up Lever and maybe a pick upgrade I'd take that.

I'd also trade the 1 pick if it gave us two or more good rebuild assets. Think Weitering will be a very good player, but reckon we could drag something special out of someone for the privilege. Interest in the top pick is as always healthy. Bulldogs reputedly keen. Something around Boyd, Hrovat, Talia and a pick upgrade could be orchestrated I believe. May cost Cas too, but he would be replaced by Boyd. 11 (upgraded from 20) could get us Weidemann or Collins or a solid ruck or runner. Talia will be close to the quality of his brother. Hrovat is a very good small. Boyd is elite, just taking time, as most bigs do, to develop. Why do Bulldogs do it. All three players they are trading are supplemental to their side that finished strong. The two coming in fill the two main holes. The pick downgrade would be less significant after getting Weitering. Ridding themselves of Boyds salary would be helpful to a team that struggles to attract crowds and create revenue. Dream maybe, but if that's the price for the 1 pick, I'd bite hard.

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

Certainly are! He's not top echelon and that was evident this year. Big improvement needed.
No comparison being made with Simpson but Burgoyne he ain't.

Yeah Burgoyne/Hodge/Mitchell set a high bar. Doc's in our top bracket of kicks though. Simmo ain't.

 

[thylacine60]

Doc and Simmo both have their share of howlers by foot.

 

[DangerousD]

I am not. They are stock piling midfielders. They still have a massive weakness which is their KPPs. They are losing 2 players they picked up with early draft picks. They also have another early draft pick that can't even get onto the pitch due to injuries.

They are investing heavily is 1 A grade player another potential A grade player and a C grade player.
The youngsters they have traded is are doing well (Adams, Crisp), however every other player they have traded in has been poor.

They have the kind of list that will make then the finals however nothing more. They will have very little to trade with next year and hence picking up the KPPs they desperately need.

Being a Carlton supporter, I now know how vital it is to set up your KPPs before going after mids. We are hopefully trying to address this with Tomlinson and Weitering and we'll still have ammo next year to go for some more.

The team I envy is Port Adelaide. Dixon is exactly the type of player that Collingwood should be going after. Dixon will make Port into a flag contender. It is the weakest part of their side (whilst it isn't that weak in general) and now they will have an awesome forward line to compliment their awesome midfield and awesome defense.

If Dixon was being traded to a Victorian team, there would be a whole more hoohaa about it. He is vastly superior than Carlisle.

I was surprised they didnt chase dixon or Tomlinson to be honest, but the Hawks showed that it is easy to pick up defenders who can do the job as well as a third tall forward. I hope they fall flat though.

 

[DangerousD]

It's not a tiff, it's a discussion. I like TheCoach16 even if I disagree with his trade ideas.

1. Jake Carlisle just turned 24.
2. Jake Carlisle may be suspended by WADA for 2 years (a risk I'm not willing to take)
3. Quality Players tend to not go to the pre-season draft and screw their club over royally
4. The Pies have shown that they went a different route to Hawthorn and Geelong. Which of those three clubs is the only one who didn't win multiple flags?
5. The Pies have a stronger list than we do. They have more quality players to support bringing in Treloar, Howe and Aish. Those 3 players may help them make finals again. Treloar and Carlisle won't help us make any finals until another 3 years minimum and even then, we'd be around 8th-6th for a couple seasons before bottoming out again.

The idea is to bring in 6-7 high quality kids over the next few years and let them develop together under the guidance of Murphy, Simpson, Kreuzer, Walker etc. Once they grow together, then we can start giving up picks for proven players.

If we gave up 2 first rounders for Treloar, what do we give Essendon for Carlisle? If Carlisle nominated Carlton instead of St Kilda there's no way in hell that we would've said "Sorry Bombers, we'll just take him in the pre season draft LOL". That would give us a very bad reputation as a club to deal with. We would've had to give up pick #1 or our first pick next year (which with be top 3) in one of those deals for Jake or Adam because we don't have enough quality players to trade.

Meanwhile, in the years it takes to develop pick #1 and the other 2 picks we'd get next year, Carlisle will be 29 and Treloar 27. Too old.

I don't think there will be any lengthy suspensions but thats just a gut feel, if any player was to leave their club with nothing by going to the PSD it would be an Essendon player, i would hold them accountable for everything that has happened. Even if we took Carlise to the PSD our reputation would still be better than Dodorro's.

Based on your thoughts of it taking us four years to be a serious challenger again which to be honest i agree with then what is the point of Murphy and Gibbs being here then? It would be controversial to trade one or even both of them over the next two years but any experience and leadership lost by doing that could be offset by additions of players like Steve Johnson and Daniel Cross types. Not sure if its a step too far but i wonder if SOS weighs up moves like that.

 

[BlueMania]

I reckon you could pick out any player in the comp and pinpoint a glaring error they've made at some point... I can recall Simpson slotting some big goals from 50 when we needed them, when he was on the wing... I'll have to respectfully disagree with you in this one...

I am a big fan of Simmo but i have to say i have also seen him miss plenty of these same scenario goals but have really enjoyed those he kicked as well. I think he is a lot better on the run than on a set shot too, he is definitely a heart and soul player though and highly courageous

 

[gotheJUDD]

"Sam Kerridge who returned from holiday at the weekend, is considering a three-year offer from Carlton.

- Herald Sun"

 

[DangerousD]

I've got Rowe in, I rate him... Not a fan of Graham YET. Jaksch can't play ahead of Tomlinson if we get him. I did miss Sheehan, I like him, in our bench for sure. And I forgot Plowman, based on my line up, where would he slot in, in your opinion?

Plowman or Jacksh in for Rowe, develop the two young players if thats the position you see them growing in to. I would even prefer white to Rowe.

 

[ShanDog]

Yeah Burgoyne/Hodge/Mitchell set a high bar. Doc's in our top bracket of kicks though. Simmo ain't.

Love Doc, but he is prone to terrible shanks. Good chance he will get it out of his game with more experience at dealing with pressure.

 

[1981]

I think McCarthy will get traded and Tomlinson then will stay at GWS

 

[DangerousD]

I bloody hope so ... as that green vest is a confidence killer IMHO and if not rotated between several players it also seems to effect your match fitness.

Actually I believe I should be talking in past tense as it would appear that the sub. is out for 2016 ... is that correct ?

sure is, no more subs

 

[Cringle]

If I'm excited for anything next year... it's seeing Cripps and Graham work in tandem.

Cripps... to Graham... kicks onto the chest of Wats... I mean Tomlinson.

 

[TheCoach16]

It's not a tiff, it's a discussion. I like TheCoach16 even if I disagree with his trade ideas.

1. Jake Carlisle just turned 24.
2. Jake Carlisle may be suspended by WADA for 2 years (a risk I'm not willing to take)
3. Quality Players tend to not go to the pre-season draft and screw their club over royally
4. The Pies have shown that they went a different route to Hawthorn and Geelong. Which of those three clubs is the only one who didn't win multiple flags?
5. The Pies have a stronger list than we do. They have more quality players to support bringing in Treloar, Howe and Aish. Those 3 players may help them make finals again. Treloar and Carlisle won't help us make any finals until another 3 years minimum and even then, we'd be around 8th-6th for a couple seasons before bottoming out again.

The idea is to bring in 6-7 high quality kids over the next few years and let them develop together under the guidance of Murphy, Simpson, Kreuzer, Walker etc. Once they grow together, then we can start giving up picks for proven players.

If we gave up 2 first rounders for Treloar, what do we give Essendon for Carlisle? If Carlisle nominated Carlton instead of St Kilda there's no way in hell that we would've said "Sorry Bombers, we'll just take him in the pre season draft LOL". That would give us a very bad reputation as a club to deal with. We would've had to give up pick #1 or our first pick next year (which with be top 3) in one of those deals for Jake or Adam because we don't have enough quality players to trade.

Meanwhile, in the years it takes to develop pick #1 and the other 2 picks we'd get next year, Carlisle will be 29 and Treloar 27. Too old.

Awwwww, I like you too BF... I'm over the whole Carlisle, Treloar thing now anyway. It didn't happen, it's not going to happen, so I've moved on... I've shifted my focus to this trade with GWS. The deal as I'm hearing it sounds like a massive win for us... You seem to be in the know, do you reckon this will actually eventuate?

 

[Blue_Virus]

A couple of drafts ago I remember seeing a drafted players clip from I think Andy Mckay talking about us drafting endurance players with the idea that the interchange cap would come down and we would have the players in place ready for this change. I'm pretty sure it was Graham's draft year if anyone can be bothered finding it.

 

[Funk]

I'm not anti draft, or anti kids. I'm all for the rebuild and doing thing properly this time. All I suggested, and this is ALL I was trying to say was, whilst we're getting the kids and rebuilding, would it be so bad to try for two players who are still very young in football terms, who would add value and help the players we have and the players we intend to get, play some better footy. I'm not suggesting we give away the draft, I'm not saying sell the farm, I'm saying improvement comes in various forms and in the position we're in, we should at least explore all option and take opportunities to add value if they present themselves.

I understand your point about sustainable success vs speedy success, and it's a good one. I coach my own side so I know how important that is. I just think there's more than one way to skin a cat...

I'm sure you're right, I hope you're right. I just thought it was ok to have my own opinion as well.

It's common knowledge the club did try to get both these players (Carlisle and Treloar).

But the cost in draft picks was not justifiable.

Other than pay "overs" for these 2 guys I am not sure what else you want the club to do.

 

[Crippa#9]

"Sam Kerridge who returned from holiday at the weekend, is considering a three-year offer from Carlton.

- Herald Sun"

He can't get a senior game but we're offering him 3 years!?
I like the kid and happy to punt him for a later pick but.. a 3yr contract? Have we not learnt from last year's debacle?

 

[TheCoach16]

He can't get a senior game but we're offering him 3 years!?
I like the kid and happy to punt him for a later pick but.. a 3yr contract? Have we not learnt from last year's debacle?

I agree with you, but you're not going to offer him one year, so I guess there's not much difference between 2 and 3. It might have been the deal breaker/clincher

 

[Jimmae]

At least we know he can run out a game and lay a tackle, which is more than any one can say for the combined efforts of Jones and Tutt.

 

[ESKIE]

Could be 2 conditional, certain criteria met, then the third

 

[ferrisb]

Could be 2 conditional, certain criteria met, then the third

Wish we'd given daisy a 2 year contract,with a 3rd year option, dependent on playing 60 games

 

[ShanDog]

He is a decent player. Wouldn't be surprised to see him play a fair few games while we are rebuilding.

 

[Blue_sunday]

Take slight unders and do a solid for Collingwood?

Yeah, I'm not signing off on that shit.

Yeah no thanks

 

[Mezzoculo]

At least we know he can run out a game and lay a tackle, which is more than any one can say for the combined efforts of Jones and Tutt.

From his 13 games, Jason Tutt was in the top 15 for tackles, kicks, marks and handballs at the club last year.

Sorry to shout but this Tutt the Spud trope is really beginning to annoy me.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Tutt makes an effort and he's not afraid to tackle, he just looks like he shits himself when he has the ball...like **** what the **** do I do with this