List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion (cont in Pt 2)

[Nutsngum]

Nah, Petracca was generally seen as the one most likely to go no.1 from about the middle of that year, and up until the last week or so- when I reckon we leaked that we were going to take Paddy, to "soften the blow"- pretty much everyone thought it was a given that we'd take Tracca.

According to the HS a day or so after the draft, they went around to all the tables at breakfast on the morning of the draft and took a straw poll and either 16 or 17 other clubs said they would have taken Petracca at no.1 if they had the pick.

Melbourne said they would take which ever of those two we didn't though, so if we didn't take him at 1 Paddy would have gone top 3.

Im not trawling through 3 year old posts but there was very much a split between paddy and petracca. It was the last couple of weeks before draft where this place was on the petracca bandwagon mostly but it certainly shifted back and forth.

Care to produce that herald sun article too?

 

[StCicatriz]

Gee whiz some people overrate Powell-Pepper.

Or maybe you still dont rate him?

 

[RoundCubic]

Most had Petracca as pick one and Boyd's ridiculous pay packet made us jump on Paddy. It was okay logic but hasn't worked so far. Trout is a recruiter and lives and dies by his selections. To me the jury is still out.

I dislike judging recruiting based on injury especially when its not a pre-existing condition. The phantom drafts that had us take Petracca also had Melbourne taking Paddy so taking the consensus pick 3 at pick 1 is not a huge reach

I reckon there were already questions about full time stay at home FFs before we drafted him. I back the logic of a KPF but I reckon the last 2 years of Premiers have lessened the value of them even more. Hopefully he smashes it next year and his success will herald the new era of KPFs.

Recruiters have to get god players at the draft and if they don't they get questioned. I know it's not the done thing to question anything about the club but I'm on the fence with Trout. Needs a good draft haul this year.

I agree there were big questions on Paddy because he played a goal square forward wasn't super fit and wasn't 199cm but his U18 dominance made him a top 3 prospect and we haven't had access to a better option in the draft since. There are always promising midfielders in the draft but KPF's are rare.
I think the dogs were very lucky with Sydney's injuries while the Tigers defence and midfield was far more important then it's forward set up.
Saying that drafting Petracca, Miller, Daniel and SPP may have made us a finals team this year so its frustrating and the Long selection looks like a gamble that didn't pay off.

 

[RoundCubic]

According to the HS a day or so after the draft, they went around to all the tables at breakfast on the morning of the draft and took a straw poll and either 16 or 17 other clubs said they would have taken Petracca at no.1 if they had the pick.

Melbourne said they would take which ever of those two we didn't though, so if we didn't take him at 1 Paddy would have gone top 3.

Partly Petracca was rated as a bankable elite player but also most teams in 2014 thought they had their KPF stocks sorted

 

[BrutThough]

I don't think Trout was the guy bringing in established talent though. He was responsible for recruiting at the draft. Petracca is rated by most experts as a top 50 player in the AFL though, JS has massive potential but I think that most non Saints fans would call bullshit on Steele being better than Petracca. He's the third highest rated Small/ Medium forward behind Toby Greene and Eddie Betts. He's rated number 50 in the AFL in overall player standings too. Jack Steele is 177 overall. I know it's not a perfect science but they are a fair way apart.

At this stage, Petracca is all talk without actually showing this superstar potential throughout whole games that we constantly hear about. Billings and Gresh have performed better as small/medium forwards than Petracca at this stage. The talk of him being currently 'elite' by some supporters and media people are inaccurate - he may get there, but isn't there yet. It is particularly laughable when they call him elite and an A grader, but suggest Billings isn't.

I dont know why someone is comparing Steele to Petracca because Steele actually plays whole games in the midfield and has shown potential to dominate whole games doing so. Currently, Petracca doesn't have the ability to play full games in the midfield, so has done most of his work in the forward line with midfield bursts. He has shown talent once in there, but doesn't currently have the ability to dominate full games. They are completely different players, and cant be compared.

 

[lewdogs]

I'm still bullish on Long. He didn't set the world on fire last year but he showed a bit at the level. He has x-factor. Very keen to see how he goes this year.

If you look at our recent drafting I think it's been very solid. Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Gresham. Brandon White at 40 looks a good get too. Sinclair as a rookie?! Of the picks that haven't worked out yet, Goddard and McCartin have had injury issues. McKenzie is still trying to put it together but doesn't look miles off it. Lonie started well but has tailed off - he was a pick in the 40s though.

Honestly I'm very bullish about what we can do with these picks and I see no reason to doubt our recruiters right now.

 

[RoundCubic]

At this stage, Petracca is all talk without actually showing this superstar potential throughout whole games that we constantly hear about. Billings and Gresh have performed better as small/medium forwards than Petracca at this stage. The talk of him being currently 'elite' by some supporters and media people are inaccurate - he may get there, but isn't there yet. It is particularly laughable when they call him elite and an A grader, but suggest Billings isn't.

I dont know why someone is comparing Steele to Petracca because Steele actually plays whole games in the midfield and has shown potential to dominate whole games doing so. Currently, Petracca doesn't have the ability to play full games in the midfield, so has done most of his work in the forward line with midfield bursts. He has shown talent once in there, but doesn't currently have the ability to dominate full games. They are completely different players, and cant be compared.

Petracca is elite he's an unselfish Steve Johnson, was averaging a goal/goal assist from every 5th disposal and will probably end up averaging 20-25 disposals at the beginning of the year why would you play him full-time mid when he is that effective as a half forward.
Steele will be elite as well could not believe our luck in getting him from GWS

edit: didn't realise Petracca dropped off in the second half of the year probably teams started to find match ups for him still he's ok

 

[triggering bro]

Petracca was seen as the pick 1 & likely by all clubs with StK the exception. I was in shock when it was leaked we would take Paddy. It was obvious we picked Paddy cos of the Boyd deal. The club has said as much.

Petracca vs Billings is a good comparison. They are similar players, have similar impact & are similar age. Petracca a more physical player, Billings more productive. Petracca is a tad younger & missed a year with injury. He’s already a very good player & will be a star just like Billings imo.

 

[BrutThough]

Petracca is elite he's an unselfish Steve Johnson, was averaging a goal/goal assist from every 5th disposal and will probably end up averaging 20-25 disposals at the beginning of the year why would you play him full-time mid when he is that effective as a half forward.
Steele will be elite as well could not believe our luck in getting him from GWS

edit: didn't realise Petracca dropped off in the second half of the year probably teams started to find match ups for him still he's ok

He has the potential be to elite, but he isn't an elite player yet. He has some elite moments, but hasn't really had a full, well rounded elite game.

Petracca vs Billings is a good comparison. They are similar players, have similar impact & are similar age. Petracca a more physical player, Billings more productive. Petracca is a tad younger & missed a year with injury. He’s already a very good player & will be a star just like Billings imo.

They only have about 5 months age difference, with Billings born mid-August 95 and Petrecca early-Jan 96. Billings has played 25 more games, also missing close to a season's worth with injuries. They are a very good comparison, both play half forward and are talented players. Petrecca hasn't dominated/impacted games or had a completely dominate performance like Billings has e.g. Bulldogs comback or 30 disposals, 5 goals.

I'm not sure they will be so easy to compare in future seasons, with Petrecca flagged to eventually be a full-time midfielder and Billings being such a special talent up forward.

 

[thepoyz]

According to the HS a day or so after the draft, they went around to all the tables at breakfast on the morning of the draft and took a straw poll and either 16 or 17 other clubs said they would have taken Petracca at no.1 if they had the pick.

This is 100% untrue (the sun might've ran with it, but they made it up).

 

[VDS66]

I think it's funny how Richo is always questioned despite now having the youngest list in the AFL and probably the most lop sided. He only has a few players from when he arrived left. Trout hasn't found us a superstar yet despite being around a long time. Billings and Gresh look close but in the same period Carlton have Cripps and the Dogs have Bont, Mc Crae and several other guns. Brisbane even have several who look just as promising and some even more than our kids.

You just contradicted yourself lol.

 

[StCicatriz]

Why are we comparing Steele to Petracca??

They play nothing alike.


I agree with your presmise but Billings and Petracca are the ones who play similarly

currently petracca plays the HFF like Billings does, but they're two completely different players IMO

the role might be similar but thats it. i would see that petracca has more in common with Membrey than Billings

but the similarity to steele is that petracca wasnt drafted because he can play the HFF, he was drafted to become a full time mid, he should be doing what steele is doing now. he should be your full time inside mid. albeit steele is managed in that regard

where they should end up and what they were drafted for the comparison of steele to petracca is valid and more accurate than a billings vs petracca (outside vs inside)

 

[kyrgios]

SPP v Long, Battle and #7.

Worth the punt for sure

I hope so. He looks a bit like Nicky, maybe that's why I like his so much.

 

[StCicatriz]

very very interesting

 

[Yabadoo22]

I'm starting to feel a bit sick in the stomach seeing us linked to naughton and murphy at our picks. Imagine the melts if we take the two at 7 and 8! Naughton looks like he will be a good player but I'm not keen on spending another high pick on a defender. Eg Carlisle and Goddard. If we take murphy we better be taking a sure thing mid such as brayshaw or Clark to go with him.

 

[StCicatriz]

to go with the article that was posted about naughton. i was looking for trout at one of the state games over here. i was sitting in the 2nd tier stand at subi on the northern side of the ground (****in stupid wooden benches but i digress)

he was sitting with the other saints recruiters in the same stand, but in the newer part/smaller corporate type seating (was loosely roped off from the general public)

anyways the ball at that point was down the subi end. literally every player was in the fwd 50 of the opposing side

but i noticed trouts head was turned and he was looking down the other end of the ground. there were two players in the goal square. naughton and a vic player i forget

thats when i started to think maybe we were interested in a defender

found him doing that a bit on the day

all i'm saying is that i wouldnt discount naughton at all. especially when you couple it with this:

freo are gonna have a very hard decision to make. i reckon naughton's not the type to fly back home, given half his life was spent in victoria anyways. he looks to be a better prospect than logue IMO who is more a swingman with a big tank than a natural footballer/defender like naughton

 

[Significant]

very very interesting

Personally would love Collins. I can see a fair bit of value in the DFAs this year.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Petracca was seen as the pick 1 & likely by all clubs with StK the exception. I was in shock when it was leaked we would take Paddy. It was obvious we picked Paddy cos of the Boyd deal. The club has said as much.

Petracca vs Billings is a good comparison. They are similar players, have similar impact & are similar age. Petracca a more physical player, Billings more productive. Petracca is a tad younger & missed a year with injury. He’s already a very good player & will be a star just like Billings imo.

Yeah I never get the rubbishing of a young player just cos we picked somebody else instead.
I'd f******g love both Petracca and The Bont at The Saints. Bont is already a match winner and Petracca will be a bull in the midfield.
But that doesnt mean I'm unhappy with us getting Billings and Paddy instead.
Billings is all class.
Imagine if Billings kicked straighter last season. It would've been a massive break out season. But even with his wonky kicking he was still bloody impressive.
Kid could be A-grade elite in another couple of yrs.

 

[VDS66]

In terms of past drafting, I reckon the discussion should be set aside for another 10 months before drawing any real conclusions.

A bit like a horse race. You have early boaters and the ones that come home strongly...

 

[borderbarry]

Most had Petracca as pick one and Boyd's ridiculous pay packet made us jump on Paddy. It was okay logic but hasn't worked so far. Trout is a recruiter and lives and dies by his selections. To me the jury is still out.

I believe the fact that Roo was coming to the end of his career probably had more influence on Paddy's selection than Boyd'spay packet.

 

[sunny3193]

It’s right up there with

‘The game has passed him by’ or ‘he’s cooked’


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, if get this right:
“We drafted Player Y* because of his X factor, but after 12 months he’s proven to have no tank and he’s cooked. Player Y is a spud. Delist.”
Yes?
* Insert name of player here.

 

[borderbarry]

Of the three delisted players said to be training with us, Sam Collins, Tom Lamb and Will Fordham, All I know is that Lamb is Mini Coopers Grandson. Can anyone give us a run down on these three players? Although I believe it is unlikely we will take one of them going on previous years.

 

[saintbatty]

If we're looking at Collins, we're looking at Naughton ...

 

[StCicatriz]

I disagree tbh.

Petracca plays nearly the exactly same role as Billings does atm but he just does it differently. Like you said they play the same position so regardless of how they play the position it makes sense to compare them over two blokes who do different things.

They're both primary leading targets with Petracca having the advantage that he's better at contests and Billings has his advantage is that he is much more useful that he pushes up and plays on the wing and even recvieves the footy at the half back flank.

They also go through the middle and follow the footy at bursts.

I agree that Steele and Petracca play similarity in that they're both better inside and have somewhat decent goal sense but you can make the argument that Petracca is similar to Koby Stevens then.

FWIW, I'd take Billings over Petracca and Billings is only 4 months older as well.

do you think melbourne drafted him to play on the HFF? or did they draft him to be a full time mid?

 

[StCicatriz]

Of the three delisted players said to be training with us, Sam Collins, Tom Lamb and Will Fordham, All I know is that Lamb is Mini Coopers Grandson. Can anyone give us a run down on these three players? Although I believe it is unlikely we will take one of them going on previous years.

collins: undersized, too slow and not agile enough -> no
lamb: couldnt cement himself on the wing at WAFL level, wasnt effective enough up fwd where he was played as a KPF for east perth. his counterpart waterman looked much better there -> no

cant comment on the other

naughton -> collins
lamb -> stephenson