Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[BrisbaneCFC]

This week and at this early stage;

Delist/Retire:
Gorringe.........No explanation required
Armfield.........Will retire
Graham..........Had his chances and didn't take them
Buckley.......... " " " " " " .......... and simply not up to what Bolton wants.
Rowe.............Retire? Unpopular I know, but what's the point. Would sooner give JGM another year.
Gallucci..........Should be easy enough

Trade/FA:
Casboult........He'll go for the money and why shouldn't he?
Gibbs............If he wants to go, he'll be afforded his wish, but only if a top 10 picks (or the right player) comes about.
Murphy..........Listed my reasons here before and if it opens the way for Kelly....Absolutely.

I wouldn't move on Jaksch nor Boekhorst at this stage. Both have AFL traits and worth one more year particularly in a weak draft year.
Glass-McCasker; He was always a long term prospect, so do we keep him for the long term? Will this be SOS's first slip, otherwise?
Sumner? Something has gone awry this season. Redeemable?
White: No need to move him on this year. Another one and he can ease into a coaching role.
Thomas will need to take a hefty pay cut. Will he?
Lamb will also need to take a pay cut as SOS won't be offering him the 350K he was on.

Id add Simpson to your retire list if I'm honest. Pretty much agree with everything else.

 

[DangerousD]

We tried that with Jaryd Cachia.

What did happen there??? Was a regular one year and then never seen again.

I hope you're not suggesting that as we tried it once to never try it again

 

[Wickzki]

I had a rather nice conversation with someone involved with the club from a peripheral perspective earlier today. Most of it was based around Levi.

My fear, as I've posted, is that without him we run the risk of Darcy Moore-ing the likes of Harry McKay. His response was, paraphrasing here, "Do you not think that Collingwood would give their left nut to be able to surround Moore with AFL caliber talent like Charlie Curnow and Jack Silvagni? Collingwood's problem is that they only have the one player that can stand up at the AFL level. They keep plugging away with marginal talents and hoping for the best. Of course Darcy Moore's going to be swamped. We already have three key forwards for the next decade. Levi is expendable and we don't even need to replace him with a like for like. What we lack are the two quality smalls (forwards) who can create scoreboard pressure and a midfield. We get those onto the list and we will be a serious contender when they've settled in. Until then we're kicking and praying for it."

He further claimed that SOS was more than happy to trade out our second round selection last year given the total sum of the trade. This is partly because he knew the market for Levi last year shit, that we'd get him to commit for another year, and that we'd be able to ply up his value to get us a second round compensation pick in return this year. He thought that SOS was okay with "downgrading" a single pick because of where the two clubs are at. It was unlikely Geelong would be into the same prospect that we would be.

Two other notes. First, he thinks we're a lock to get a priority pick (pick 18 or 19). He believes that the AFL is delighted that we have a core group of young players coming through but understand that we're still behind the eight ball. "We're two years into making up for 7 years of bad player development, drafting and trading". It's going to take at least another couple of trade periods before we're up to "acceptable standards" list wise. Finally, he thinks that we may see players put up on the trade table this year that "you would never imagine would be traded. Nobody is off limits (for the right trade)."

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Agree with so much of this Harks. Including moving murph on if the right deal is available.

However if moving Murph on I would hang on to Graham one more year for depth. Would rather delist White.

Our backline is where we run deepest. Midfield shallowest. Simple balancing act.

Complete hypothetical

If we ended up with pk 1 would we/GWS consider this;

GWS : Pk 1 and Murphy

Us : Hopper, Whitefield, Kennedy/Smith and there 2nd rd.

Come at me

 

[Arr0w]

Finally, he thinks that we may see players put up on the trade table this year that "you would never imagine would be traded. Nobody is off limits (for the right trade)."

Nor should they be

 

[Mondyboy]

Nor should they be

Contracts aside I'd assume the only untouchable players are those from the first and second year. No-one is trading Charlie or Harry McKay.

And I can't believe the club would be considering Docherty or Cripps.

But E. Curnow, Murphy, Gibbs, Levi etc would all be possibly trades.


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[Mondyboy]

Boekhorst won't make it. Delaying the inevitable.

Agreed. Can't think of a single good game he's played for the main team. Yes, he's skilful but lacks the intensity and drops out of games every single time. I'd delist both him and Graham. Neither are AFL standard.

We also have to put a line through KJ. It's possible he might get a game this week but he's never shown any of the potential he was reported to have.


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[ShanDog]

He isn't AFL standard.. Either is Graham
Credit to them they made an AFL list but there's no sustainability with the weapons they have and don't have

What is wrong with what Pickett can provide? If fitness is the main concern, that's something easier corrected than any issue of ability or physical limitations such as pace.

 

[Arr0w]

Contracts aside I'd assume the only untouchable players are those from the first and second year. No-one is trading Charlie or Harry McKay.

And I can't believe the club would be considering Docherty or Cripps.

But E. Curnow, Murphy, Gibbs, Levi etc would all be possibly trades.


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I doubt anyone under 25 or so would be considered. Anyone else would be considered, if the price is right

 

[Wily trout]

Nor should they be

We would have to consider Cripps for 10x1st rounders....maybe

 

[Arr0w]

Of the guys that are 26+ at the start of next year, I would say only 6 would have any form of trade value. Some others could be steak knives in other deals

Kade Simpson
Dennis Armfield
Dale Thomas
Marc Murphy
Alex Silvagni
Sam Rowe
Simon White
Rhys Palmer
Bryce Gibbs
Matthew Kreuzer
Ed Curnow
Matthew Wright
Levi Casboult
Ciaran Sheehan
Liam Jones
Andrew Phillips
Matt Korcheck

 

[Blue Baggers]

Is KJ gone? Where do we see him playing? Has Kerr gone past him?

IMO I still think he has plenty to offer, if he isn't being double/triple teamed in the 2's he's generally dominant. Curnow KJ Harry 3 pronged attack if Levi leaves

 

[dumb]

Mark Austin, Western Bulldogs
Setanta, GWS
Kane Lucas, West Coast (rookie listed)

Robbo and Laidler

+ darren pfeiffer

 

[ParapMarkets]

I don't think we would be a lock for an end of first round priority pick and I hope we don't apply for one. We chose our path, it was always going to make things a bit harder in the short term. I don't like the handout mentality.

 

[Rarely Rong]

I don't think we would be a lock for an end of first round priority pick and I hope we don't apply for one. We chose our path, it was always going to make things a bit harder in the short term. I don't like the handout mentality.

Agree

We will potentially have 5 number 1 draft picks on our list next year! Almost 1/4 of a line up.

No 1's and hand outs get you nowhere. Build a successful culture through recruitment and development.

Recruiting potential leaders also very important imo.

 

[Wickzki]

Of the guys that are 26+ at the start of next year, I would say only 6 would have any form of trade value. Some others could be steak knives in other deals

Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Matthew Kreuzer
Ed Curnow
Levi Casboult
Liam Jones

Pretty much agree with you.

Ed wont be traded because of Charlie.

We don't have the ruck stocks to trade Kreuzer, even putting aside the loyalty between both club and player.

Levi's a retricted free agent. The only trade that I see with him is if we don't think the contract that he gets is FA compensation worthy. Then we'd likely do a sign-and-trade deal there (or in AFL terms, match-and-trade).

Gibbs is somewhat expected to be traded. That leaves Marc and Liam. Liam makes sense as a trade if we retain ASOS and/or Rowe as it's time to build around Weitering-Marchbank-Plowman-Macreadie. Marc has currency but I don't believe it's nearly as high as what it should be. Still, if the club can get a piece or two in that 23 and under long term best 22 group then it'd be a win-win for Marc and the club.

You know what.... There really could be a player in our under 25 bracket that we don't see being traded that may be moved on. The only one that hasn't been re-signed already is Cuningham. However, the reality is that he's a 20 year old second year player who will have played less than 20 games in his first two seasons and is averaging sub-15 possessions per game so far. Therefore, his value is greater to us than what he would fetch on the trade market so I don't see it being him.

 

[Jeremias]

I don't think we would be a lock for an end of first round priority pick and I hope we don't apply for one. We chose our path, it was always going to make things a bit harder in the short term. I don't like the handout mentality.

There is no "handout mentality".

We know we're on the right track and we know we don't deserve one...but all it takes is one idiot in the room and we're a chance.

We'd be silly not to ask. There's no harm in asking the question.

 

[JustaBattler]

Wickzki thanks for the post

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I had a rather nice conversation with someone involved with the club from a peripheral perspective earlier today. Most of it was based around Levi.

My fear, as I've posted, is that without him we run the risk of Darcy Moore-ing the likes of Harry McKay. His response was, paraphrasing here, "Do you not think that Collingwood would give their left nut to be able to surround Moore with AFL caliber talent like Charlie Curnow and Jack Silvagni? Collingwood's problem is that they only have the one player that can stand up at the AFL level. They keep plugging away with marginal talents and hoping for the best. Of course Darcy Moore's going to be swamped. We already have three key forwards for the next decade. Levi is expendable and we don't even need to replace him with a like for like. What we lack are the two quality smalls (forwards) who can create scoreboard pressure and a midfield. We get those onto the list and we will be a serious contender when they've settled in. Until then we're kicking and praying for it."

He further claimed that SOS was more than happy to trade out our second round selection last year given the total sum of the trade. This is partly because he knew the market for Levi last year shit, that we'd get him to commit for another year, and that we'd be able to ply up his value to get us a second round compensation pick in return this year. He thought that SOS was okay with "downgrading" a single pick because of where the two clubs are at. It was unlikely Geelong would be into the same prospect that we would be.

Two other notes. First, he thinks we're a lock to get a priority pick (pick 18 or 19). He believes that the AFL is delighted that we have a core group of young players coming through but understand that we're still behind the eight ball. "We're two years into making up for 7 years of bad player development, drafting and trading". It's going to take at least another couple of trade periods before we're up to "acceptable standards" list wise. Finally, he thinks that we may see players put up on the trade table this year that "you would never imagine would be traded. Nobody is off limits (for the right trade)."

I'm not doubting what you are saying but we offered Cas 2 years last year.

Edit I guess we would have known Cas was taking the one year when we traded our future second but

 

[Wickzki]

Wickzki thanks for the post

Eh, it wasn't much but I thought worth posting.

Was more interested in the "We wont be Darcy Moore-ing our young KPFs when Levi goes" commentary.

 

[BluesRule]

I don't think we would be a lock for an end of first round priority pick and I hope we don't apply for one. We chose our path, it was always going to make things a bit harder in the short term. I don't like the handout mentality.

Nice sentiment, but the Hawks took plenty of PP's before they won 4 Premierships.

Brisbane got one last year. We need to take a PP and anything else we can scrounge as we are a long way back.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

What is wrong with what Pickett can provide? If fitness is the main concern, that's something easier corrected than any issue of ability or physical limitations such as pace.

I'm talking Holman.. I'm very bullish on Pickett

 

[Quazza]

God , I'd take 50 PP's if it meant we'd actually win

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Pretty much agree with you.

Ed wont be traded because of Charlie.

We don't have the ruck stocks to trade Kreuzer, even putting aside the loyalty between both club and player.

Levi's a retricted free agent. The only trade that I see with him is if we don't think the contract that he gets is FA compensation worthy. Then we'd likely do a sign-and-trade deal there (or in AFL terms, match-and-trade).

Gibbs is somewhat expected to be traded. That leaves Marc and Liam. Liam makes sense as a trade if we retain ASOS and/or Rowe as it's time to build around Weitering-Marchbank-Plowman-Macreadie. Marc has currency but I don't believe it's nearly as high as what it should be. Still, if the club can get a piece or two in that 23 and under long term best 22 group then it'd be a win-win for Marc and the club.

You know what.... There really could be a player in our under 25 bracket that we don't see being traded that may be moved on. The only one that hasn't been re-signed already is Cuningham. However, the reality is that he's a 20 year old second year player who will have played less than 20 games in his first two seasons and is averaging sub-15 possessions per game so far. Therefore, his value is greater to us than what he would fetch on the trade market so I don't see it being him.

Not sure why Jones makes sense as a trade
Want to expand on your reasoning,?

For me weitering is the one that makes sense to trade

 

[BluesRule]

Eh, it wasn't much but I thought worth posting.

Was more interested in the "We wont be Darcy Moore-ing our young KPFs when Levi goes" commentary.

Agree but if we lose Casboult, Gorringe, Korchek and KJ this offseason we really need Kerr and MacKay to develop fast. If Levi nets pick #18-20 that is great return on a rookie recruit.

Small forward is a real concern. I hope Sumner and Pickett come on, but just not happening so far. Both have speed but seem to lack the intensity the Richmond boys are now showing.