List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 1

[Rors]

The reason we picked billings was because we saw him becoming a midfielder after 3 years. It's even in there draft meetings they held. They thought he had the potential to play midfield and he hasn't proven the scope yet. Petracca takes a s*** on billings

Stop listening to the commentators hyping up Petracca. If you seriously think that Petracca is better than Billings, then that really is a case of buying into the grass being greener on the other side

And like the Demons supporter said, Petracca isn't even a midfielder either at this stage. I'm happy for our young blokes not to be hyped up to the extent that there pant-wetting over the simple execution of a handball or kick.

I'm seriously starting to believe that there are a lot of closet Demons supporters around pretending to be Saints fans

As I've been saying in other posts above, my mates & I play drinking games when watching the footy. When Melbourne play, you drink when Tom McDonald makes an error, whenever the commentary talks up how 'courageous' Nathan Jones is, and whenever the commentary unnecessarily talks up Christian Petracca..... Most times we're smashed before the ball is even bounced to start the game

Enough with buying this seriously unwarranted Demons hype. It's nauseating & embarrassing

 

[Joffaboy]

Unfortunately people also bought the Saints hype and now feel dissapointed.

 

[bennymc7]

It's pretty clear I reckon when comparing our list to the dees we have taken opposite routes.

Dees went mids and are now trying to fill Key position posts next to Hogan and another defender to help McDonald.. what they have done is draft good young mids..

Our rebuild on the other hand has been to get in good young KPP (bruce, membrey, paddy, carlisle, goddard) with "value" picks for flankers (gresh, McKenzie, dunstan, acres).. billings has been our only blue chip flank/mid and he's improved this year imo.

Bottom line we should get some quality into our midfield in the next two draft/FA periods which will significantly improve our team

 

[STK2020]

If we draft a kid over 6ft 4" and plays anywhere BUT permanent midfield...i will puke .

 

[Rors]

Unfortunately people also bought the Saints hype and now feel dissapointed.

What? So they buy into the hype of a team that's been rebuilding for 12 years?

That is even worse

 

[bird_man]

I'm not bagging Jack out, but I can't see how anyone could argue he's better than Petracca at this stage. They are averaging similar disposals whils Petracca averages a goal more a game at a much better efficiency despite being a year younger.

Still think I prefer where the Saints list is at at the moment though.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I'm not bagging Jack out, but I can't see how anyone could argue he's better than Petracca at this stage. They are averaging similar disposals whils Petracca averages a goal more a game at a much better efficiency despite being a year younger.

Maybe for a couple of games this season but not over their respective "careers".
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=16&type=A&pid1=4041&pid2=3920&fid1=C&fid2=C

That said I was hoping for a bit more from Billings.

 

[bird_man]

Maybe for a couple of games this season but not over their respective "careers".
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=16&type=A&pid1=4041&pid2=3920&fid1=C&fid2=C

That said I was hoping for a bit more from Billings.

Last year was Petracca's first season coming off a knee though.

The kicking is the thing that's the huge let down for Billings at the moment. He's getting enough of the footy but I thought when he played his first few games he'd be the kind of bloke that only needed 20 touches to destroy the opposition.

 

[GTrains Mullet]

To each their own...

Follow your heart VDS66 but that shit is ****ed

 

[Persevering Saint]

Brain fart...

Can our Sav be used as an outside mid?

I can see where you're going, but I think we used him in that role when he first arrived. He disappointed, and went back to Sandy, and they got him working well in the backline. Still, that was a few years ago, and he's probably matured since then, so your point still stands.

 

[JG22]

Petracca v Billings is such an irrelevant debate

 

[StCicatriz]

Brain fart...

Can our Sav be used as an outside mid?

I thought the whole point behind recruiting Savage was because he had shown at VFL level he could play midfield

We get him try him there then gave up pretty quick

 

[L_W_P]

Is Petracca really that much better than Billings?

In 2017 both ave 20 touches. Jack a little behind with only 8 contested and going at 64% while Petracca gets 9 contested and 71%. he has also kicked more goals but Jack's inaccuracy against the Pies cost him a bag.

Before this year Petracca's best game he had 24 touches and kicked 2 goals in a 73 point win over the Suns. Riding the wave of a big team effort perhaps?

Billings has had 3 games with Brownlow votes -

2014
1 vote
25 touches
3 goals
Lost to WCE by 33

2015
2 votes
22 touches
4 goals
Beat WB by 7

2016
1 vote
30 touches
2 goals
Beat Pies by 29

So far, on average, Billings has at least 1 game each season where he is in the best players on the field and in the case of the comeback game against the Dogs he was the reason we won. To compare the two Petracca would need to have a near best on ground game this year and drag Melbourne from at least 40+ points behind to get up for the win.

Would we like Jack to be doing this more often? Sure we would. But he is still a skinny kid (who missed half a season through injury) that is learning to play midfield at AFL level. Considering the level of midfield depth we have to help cover him in the trenches I would say he is right on track in his development.

He's not Bontempelli. We all accept that but few people saw Bont having this kind of impact and he was talked about as one of the biggest "boom or bust" picks in years given his only real form was in school footy. Billings dominated the juniors as a half forward and has played that role well for us but long term we want that kicking and footy smarts in the midfield and that takes time to pick up, especially at this level.

I'll give people that one, but this Billings v Petracca thing is rubbish. Jack has performed to a higher level for a longer period of time with a less effective ruckman feeding him, much less midfield support protecting him and playing a role that is different to that of his junior career.

Come back when Petracca goes into the midfield and is actually the instigator for a Melbourne win (like Jack was against the Dogs and Pies the last two years as mentioned above) and not just getting in on the action when the Dees already rolling.

tl:dr - Billings > Petracca right now you stupid idiots

 

[Hayes4PM]

Is Petracca really that much better than Billings?

In 2017 both ave 20 touches. Jack a little behind with only 8 contested and going at 64% while Petracca gets 9 contested and 71%. he has also kicked more goals but Jack's inaccuracy against the Pies cost him a bag.

Before this year Petracca's best game he had 24 touches and kicked 2 goals in a 73 point win over the Suns. Riding the wave of a big team effort perhaps?

Billings has had 3 games with Brownlow votes -

2014
1 vote
25 touches
3 goals
Lost to WCE by 33

2015
2 votes
22 touches
4 goals
Beat WB by 7

2016
1 vote
30 touches
2 goals
Beat Pies by 29

So far, on average, Billings has at least 1 game each season where he is in the best players on the field and in the case of the comeback game against the Dogs he was the reason we won. To compare the two Petracca would need to have a near best on ground game this year and drag Melbourne from at least 40+ points behind to get up for the win.

Would we like Jack to be doing this more often? Sure we would. But he is still a skinny kid (who missed half a season through injury) that is learning to play midfield at AFL level. Considering the level of midfield depth we have to help cover him in the trenches I would say he is right on track in his development.

He's not Bontempelli. We all accept that but few people saw Bont having this kind of impact and he was talked about as one of the biggest "boom or bust" picks in years given his only real form was in school footy. Billings dominated the juniors as a half forward and has played that role well for us but long term we want that kicking and footy smarts in the midfield and that takes time to pick up, especially at this level.

I'll give people that one, but this Billings v Petracca thing is rubbish. Jack has performed to a higher level for a longer period of time with a less effective ruckman feeding him, much less midfield support protecting him and playing a role that is different to that of his junior career.

Come back when Petracca goes into the midfield and is actually the instigator for a Melbourne win (like Jack was against the Dogs and Pies the last two years as mentioned above) and not just getting in on the action when the Dees already rolling.

tl:dr - Billings > Petracca right now you stupid idiots

Yes but can he fight?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's pretty clear I reckon when comparing our list to the dees we have taken opposite routes.

Dees went mids and are now trying to fill Key position posts next to Hogan and another defender to help McDonald.. what they have done is draft good young mids..

Our rebuild on the other hand has been to get in good young KPP (bruce, membrey, paddy, carlisle, goddard) with "value" picks for flankers (gresh, McKenzie, dunstan, acres).. billings has been our only blue chip flank/mid and he's improved this year imo.

Bottom line we should get some quality into our midfield in the next two draft/FA periods which will significantly improve our team

You might want to factor in the time frame as well.

Cale Morton- BUST
Adam Marric-BUST
Jack Watts - Eventually Serviceable ( can we give Paddy and Billings a bit more time ).
Sam Blease - BUST
James Strauss- BUST
Tom Scully - Eventual trade for Hogan
Trengove - is he a bust?
Gysberts -BUST
Tapscott -BUST
Lucas Cook -BUST
Jeremy Howe - BUST
Rory Taggert -BUST
Jimmy Toumpas-BUST
Hogan - Good.
Viney - Great Player , they must have hated being obliged to draft him instead of the spud they really wanted.
Salem - Yeah he's good.
Petracca- Yes
Brayshaw - Has his moments
Oliver - Yes
Weideman - We'll see

Vince - good but getting on now.
Tyson- Yes
Michie - No
Frost - Not sure after 6 AFL seasons.
Lumumba - LOL
Garlett - 27 yo crumber with a decent-ish score record.
Newton - LOL
Bugg - OP
Kennedy - GOP
Melksham - LOL
Hibberd - Good 27 year old.
Pat McKenna - ???
Jordan Lewis. - Great player , for maybe 2 or 3 seasons ( counting this one ).


Not jealous

 

[Joffaboy]

What? So they buy into the hype of a team that's been rebuilding for 12 years?

That is even worse

Yup. They want to blame something for their dissapointment so they start with a comparable list and then bemoan the fact and whinge' oh why could we not recrut like them', convienently forgetting they are 2-3 and have been stuffing their rebuild since 2006.

 

[bennymc7]

You might want to factor in the time frame as well.

Cale Morton- BUST
Adam Marric-BUST
Jack Watts - Eventually Serviceable ( can we give Paddy and Billings a bit more time ).
Sam Blease - BUST
James Strauss- BUST
Tom Scully - Eventual trade for Hogan
Trengove - is he a bust?
Gysberts -BUST
Tapscott -BUST
Lucas Cook -BUST
Jeremy Howe - BUST
Rory Taggert -BUST
Jimmy Toumpas-BUST
Hogan - Good.
Viney - Great Player , they must have hated being obliged to draft him instead of the spud they really wanted.
Salem - Yeah he's good.
Petracca- Yes
Brayshaw - Has his moments
Oliver - Yes
Weideman - We'll see

Vince - good but getting on now.
Tyson- Yes
Michie - No
Frost - Not sure after 6 AFL seasons.
Lumumba - LOL
Garlett - 27 yo crumber with a decent-ish score record.
Newton - LOL
Bugg - OP
Kennedy - GOP
Melksham - LOL
Hibberd - Good 27 year old.
Pat McKenna - ???
Jordan Lewis. - Great player , for maybe 2 or 3 seasons ( counting this one ).


Not jealous

I'm talking more last couple of years.. viney, oliver, petracca etc..

 

[saintsman24]

Is Petracca really that much better than Billings?

In 2017 both ave 20 touches. Jack a little behind with only 8 contested and going at 64% while Petracca gets 9 contested and 71%. he has also kicked more goals but Jack's inaccuracy against the Pies cost him a bag.

Before this year Petracca's best game he had 24 touches and kicked 2 goals in a 73 point win over the Suns. Riding the wave of a big team effort perhaps?

Billings has had 3 games with Brownlow votes -

2014
1 vote
25 touches
3 goals
Lost to WCE by 33

2015
2 votes
22 touches
4 goals
Beat WB by 7

2016
1 vote
30 touches
2 goals
Beat Pies by 29

So far, on average, Billings has at least 1 game each season where he is in the best players on the field and in the case of the comeback game against the Dogs he was the reason we won. To compare the two Petracca would need to have a near best on ground game this year and drag Melbourne from at least 40+ points behind to get up for the win.

Would we like Jack to be doing this more often? Sure we would. But he is still a skinny kid (who missed half a season through injury) that is learning to play midfield at AFL level. Considering the level of midfield depth we have to help cover him in the trenches I would say he is right on track in his development.

He's not Bontempelli. We all accept that but few people saw Bont having this kind of impact and he was talked about as one of the biggest "boom or bust" picks in years given his only real form was in school footy. Billings dominated the juniors as a half forward and has played that role well for us but long term we want that kicking and footy smarts in the midfield and that takes time to pick up, especially at this level.

I'll give people that one, but this Billings v Petracca thing is rubbish. Jack has performed to a higher level for a longer period of time with a less effective ruckman feeding him, much less midfield support protecting him and playing a role that is different to that of his junior career.

Come back when Petracca goes into the midfield and is actually the instigator for a Melbourne win (like Jack was against the Dogs and Pies the last two years as mentioned above) and not just getting in on the action when the Dees already rolling.

tl:dr - Billings > Petracca right now you stupid idiots

Funny I was just looking at some of his stats from previous years in both the AFL and VFL. TBH I had been a bit frustrated watching him this year so going back and looking at some of his good games was a good exercise to reassure me that we have a future bona-fide match winner on our hands. The kid isn't even 22 yet. consistency will come.
I think Petracca will be a gun too but I was very happy with drafting Paddy. I just hope all those head knocks haven't been detrimental to one of his great gifts, his hand eye coordination. I want to see him back at his best, busting through packs and clunking 'em!

 

[FQFjt]

The one thing Petracca has on Billings is arrogance, which is pretty unbecoming but might also allow him to extract another 1-2% of his potential.

 

[FQFjt]

It's pretty clear I reckon when comparing our list to the dees we have taken opposite routes.

Dees went mids and are now trying to fill Key position posts next to Hogan and another defender to help McDonald.. what they have done is draft good young mids..

Our rebuild on the other hand has been to get in good young KPP (bruce, membrey, paddy, carlisle, goddard) with "value" picks for flankers (gresh, McKenzie, dunstan, acres).. billings has been our only blue chip flank/mid and he's improved this year imo.

Bottom line we should get some quality into our midfield in the next two draft/FA periods which will significantly improve our team

It's all very well to make ourselves feel better about the proper way to do a rebuild, but it rarely is so simple.

You only need to look at the Dogs who went about building a brilliant midfield and won a flag without any recognised key defenders, any legitimate key forwards (unless you want to count Boyd), and without any recognised ruckmen.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and if we were being honest with ourselves we would admit that having an elite young midfield, an elite ruckman, an elite key forward and a serviceable backline is a pretty good position to be in. It's certainly more rounded than the Bulldogs were a couple of years ago.

Melbourne arguably have fewer pieces left in their puzzle than we do, and finding 1-2 key defenders (N Brown?) and perhaps another supporting forward, is quite a lot more straightforward than our required 3 elite midfielders.

 

[Roadto2018]

Petracca will be a more consistent performer over the journey and especially right now, he's also likely going to be a better player, there's nothing we can or could do about that really, so forget it. However, I really really do feel like Jack isn't far away from everything clicking and him tearing a couple of games apart and in general becoming a much bigger factor for us, once it clicks he's going to be hitting those targets going inside 50 and kicking the goals he's been missing, just be patient.

 

[Longmembrey]

It's all very well to make ourselves feel better about the proper way to do a rebuild, but it rarely is so simple.

You only need to look at the Dogs who went about building a brilliant midfield and won a flag without any recognised key defenders, any legitimate key forwards (unless you want to count Boyd), and without any recognised ruckmen.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and if we were being honest with ourselves we would admit that having an elite young midfield, an elite ruckman, an elite key forward and a serviceable backline is a pretty good position to be in. It's certainly more rounded than the Bulldogs were a couple of years ago.

Melbourne arguably have fewer pieces left in their puzzle than we do, and finding 1-2 key defenders (N Brown?) and perhaps another supporting forward, is quite a lot more straightforward than our required 3 elite midfielders.

Possibly, but we have more bullets to fire - ie 2 1st rounders & heaps of cap space for a FA. Have to factor this in to the comparison.

 

[VDS66]

People complaining about our rebuild is like buying a new home which still needs a roof and then complaining when it rains...

 

[Rors]

People complaining about our rebuild is like buying a new home which still needs a roof and then complaining when it rains...

Melbourne's rebuild is like buying an incomplete house then having dodgey trades do the walls, windows, roofing, joinery with everything then needing redoing within 2-3 years using even dodgier tradies than the previous time....

 

[bird_man]

People complaining about our rebuild is like buying a new home which still needs a roof and then complaining when it rains...

I'm definitely not complaining about our rebuild. Everything seems to be going to plan at the moment and this off season will probably be the biggest for the club.

But there was a discussion for some reason on who is better out of Billings and Petracca and I just can't see how we can say Billings is better when he's down on important stats despite being a year older and Petracca missing his whole first season from a knee reco.

For what it's worth I'd still much prefer Paddy over Petracca though. And I still prefer our list to Melbourne's.