Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[Soapy V]

I’m prepared to cop some flak for this opinion.

Carlton needs to pay overs to get McGovern and by that I mean a pick in the range 12-15.

This is not a scenario where there are injuries or salary cap considerations, or even a player wanting more opportunities. He’s not leaving for family reasons and yes, he’s contracted.

The Hawks and Geelong would get the deal done and that’s what Carlton needs to do as well. Everyone loves a bargain but if SOS is trading for McGovern then he must believe that his best footy is in front of him.

Paying overs now should and hopefully will be unders after he has played some really important games for the club.

I have no doubt the PP will be involved.

If its 12 then I reckon that with Pick 37 coming back will do it
If it's 19 then that is about right.
Unless the Crows are desperate for Pick 1 and pay overs I don't see it

 

[BoltonsBlues]

Difference between mcgovern and gibbs. Gibbs was happy to stay a blue and family reason eventually letting him go. Mcgovern just wants the **** out of adelaide. Pick 20 seems about right. Heck mitchell at hawks was pick 14 or somthing and hes way better than mcgovern.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

This is flawed in so many ways.

You do realize, sides like the Hawks and Swans, target players that are undervalued, not a guy that has played 1 good season.

As for not being injured, he has played 53% of games in 2 years

Meaning he has played one decent year as a 24 year old. He is not worth a mid 1st rounder

They just target players they want and make it happen, Geelong also.
O'Meara and Burgoyne were injury riddled and certainly not undervalued. I think SOS is the same , he will get the job done.

Fair price for Mm is sort of irrelevant, it'll come down to what Adelaide are willing to accept.

 

[Nori]

Difference between mcgovern and gibbs. Gibbs was happy to stay a blue and family reason eventually letting him go. Mcgovern just wants the **** out of adelaide. Pick 20 seems about right. Heck mitchell at hawks was pick 14 or somthing and hes way better than mcgovern.

Mitchell was out of contract and has stepped it up since going to the Hawks. Good trade for the Hawks. No doubt.

 

[Arr0w]

They just target players they want and make it happen, Geelong also.
O'Meara and Burgoyne were injury riddled and certainly not undervalued. I think SOS is the same , he will get the job done.

Fair price for Mm is sort of irrelevant, it'll come down to what Adelaide are willing to accept.

Surely you are not putting MM in that class

If the Crows hold out for a mid 1st rounder, then it won't get done

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Surely you are not putting MM in that class

If the Crows hold out for a mid 1st rounder, then it won't get done

Of course not but I don't think SOS would've been doing all this work on a player knowing that they'll demand good compo for and not be willing to pay up. He would know they won't accept our second rounders for him so if we end up with a pp at 12 I would be really surprised if we didn't offer it straight up with something like our 3rd they have coming back. They will expect A Cameron type of deal and will either get it or he'll stay imo

 

[footyfan1978]

McGovern for Priority Pick 12
Shiel for 2019 1st pick
Walsh with pick 1

Do not know if any of that will happen and do not see M McGov as a need but totally agree with your overall sense of value represented here.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

They're not going to give him to us for free. It will be pick(s).

So? Its hardly a huge surprise for a contracted player. Mids will come regardless of MM arrival or not.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

He at least 30.

Some Ludicrous looking mother ****er

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Surely you are not putting MM in that class

If the Crows hold out for a mid 1st rounder, then it won't get done

Unless we put up one off our list.

May be one or two of interest.

 

[gbatman]

My question is, would McKay, Curnow and McGovern provide enough ground level pace, chase and pressure?

I know they are all good for their size but elite pressure and good for their size pressure are a fair way apart.

We're very slow and poor with run all over the board but especially up forward, just wondering how we are going to go about creating this.

 

[pinot]

HF:

My question is, would McKay, Curnow and McGovern provide enough ground level pace, chase and pressure?

I know they are all good for their size but elite pressure and good for their size pressure are a fair way apart.

We're very slow and poor with run all over the board but especially up forward, just wondering how we are going to go about creating this.

Mitch McGovern is being targetted for one reason only -

Leadership in the forward line because we have ZERO.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

My question is, would McKay, Curnow and McGovern provide enough ground level pace, chase and pressure?

I know they are all good for their size but elite pressure and good for their size pressure are a fair way apart.

We're very slow and poor with run all over the board but especially up forward, just wondering how we are going to go about creating this.

I don't see a great need for concern, all pretty mobile and quick.

 

[Kruezing]

If we play enough talls, improve our kicking, push for some ruck rule changes the ball may never hit the ground when we have possession ...

 

[footyfan1978]

Difference between mcgovern and gibbs. Gibbs was happy to stay a blue and family reason eventually letting him go. Mcgovern just wants the **** out of adelaide. Pick 20 seems about right. Heck mitchell at hawks was pick 14 or somthing and hes way better than mcgovern.

All true but pick 14 for Mitchell was unders for Swans. Pick 2 for Weller was way overs last year.
You cannot base a trade we might do on trades where what happened was clear overs or unders either way at other clubs. Pick 20 might seem right to you but would not get a trade done. If the people in charge decide to get him, realistically the PP we likely to get is right in middle of what Crows probably want and what we willing to trade. That is generally what happens in most trades. The trades where there are clear winners or losers for clubs are lopsided is rarer. Plus when you try to do future trades if you keep doing deals the clearly too much our favour other trades may fall through if other clubs find it too hard to negotiate they not bother any more. Some trades have to be done with a lot of goodwill both ways. Screw other clubs over once every three trades is fine with me. Not all of them though...

 

[Faz 2000]

I don't see a great need for concern, all pretty mobile and quick.

Yeh, quick *as the three talls*. There's no lumbering Casboult or whatever there. Still need pace, talent and pressure to come from smalls and mids up forward, but for three talls those guys are plenty mobile I'd say.

 

[Metalcrusher]

No joke einstein .....................

I'm excited by our midfield next year and a forward line of Charlie McKay McGovern Murphy LeBois and the mids rotating through will have some big days.

You are

 

[gbatman]

I don't see a great need for concern, all pretty mobile and quick.

....for their size.

Elite rebounding defences might have a field day bringing it to ground and running it out. We'd be reinventing the game a little here as it's been a long time a team has won a flag with this much height up front. Though if we were going to reinvent things a little then these guys being a little extra mobile might just do it. The other forwards I feel need to be extra quick and intent on pressure.

We might play one of these guys up really high at all times and one of our mids more forward. So we can probably make it work if we are good enough.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Easy, forget about Walsh and use pick 1 to get a Shiel/ Setterfield compo. Would take Setterfield over Walsh every day of the week.

Walsh looked better than Setterfield as a junior.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Walsh looked better than Setterfield as a junior.

I have resigned myself that we are seemingly taking Walsh in this draft. I wouldn't but it is what it is.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I have resigned myself that we are seemingly taking Walsh in this draft. I wouldn't but it is what it is.

I'm getting that feeling.

 

[Nori]

They just target players they want and make it happen, Geelong also.
O'Meara and Burgoyne were injury riddled and certainly not undervalued. I think SOS is the same , he will get the job done.

Fair price for Mm is sort of irrelevant, it'll come down to what Adelaide are willing to accept.

Yes, spot on! They target their players and they get it done. Sometimes they might pay slight unders, other times they will pay overs. But perceived overs is only relevant to past form. It has nothing to do with what that player is capable of achieving in the future, or how important that player will be to the team's structure.

Punters that take a view of current value and then discount it for the purpose of getting a bargain are missing the point. It's not about shopping around for the best bargains any more.

That's why good players are happy to commit to teams like Geelong and Hawthorn. If SOS has committed to MM then he also needs to get the deal done for the credibility of the club.

 

[Stephene]

Maybe the AFL will ask Adelaide what pick they'd take for Mcgovern and that will be our PP..

 

[Nori]

Maybe the AFL will ask Adelaide what pick they'd take for Mcgovern and that will be our PP..

Yes, maybe that will be a consideration.

 

[Navara79]

Maybe the AFL will ask Adelaide what pick they'd take for Mcgovern and that will be our PP..

That would be stupid. They would ask for a top 10 pick. I would expect us to use that as part of a trade for Sheil.