List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 4

[Snailspace13]

As is evidenced by our inability to recruit A grade talent with cash, we are not getting to the summit any other way.

Steven, whilst in our best two or three players, isn't our most important in terms of structure or marketability, and, as I previously said, will not be around when we are contending again so whilst he is worth something, let's get that.

My previous scenario stays the same but we could live trade 15 and 18 for a future 1st?

I would have thought a major priority for 2019 season would be to win as many games as possible so we have a better chance of having that ability to recruit those star players.
And our own future stars would also be more enclined to continue their careers at the Saints.

 

[Yawkey way]

Those player rankings are a bit of crap. At the moment Sinclair isn’t a top 10. Needs to work harder during games

Distance covered and pace stats don’t support that, he’s working bloody hard.

We tried a few different things late in the season, changed some roles up like the two games where gears had big numbers. The guy covers plenty of ground wins his own ball and is a clever and accurate ball user.

He’s good but like a few more he needs to step up to the next level start demanding the ball and influencing games. We have a few guys who are just now hitting that prime age for mids, time for them to deliver.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Seems to polarise posters on here, personally I think he’s an absolute gun who can take the next step and be an A grade player.

He’s one of 4 saints players ranked in the AFL top 100 so clearly he’s doing something right, imo if he could add another 5-10 possessions a week and kick a few more goals he’ll make that jump.

My criticism of him is that like billing’s he doesn’t demand the ball enough and is happy to let some of our ball butchers take precedence. That’s also part of our teams problems we don’t use our better kicks the way some teams do.

I’m with you on both parts: capability, but also another of our talented guys that just lack that alpha/need to be the one to do it. Genuinely think if you added two or three guns (very hard to do) and we’d see Billings, Sincs, maybe even Acres as totally different players.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Whatever the facts may be, I'm glad & relieved that we didn't see the video before the deal was done. Thank god.

Just goes to show that maybe we get overexcited by occasional acts of silliness? Too judgemental.

If we had seen the video and done the prudent thing and walked away. No Carlisle and no Gresham on our List today.

Couldn’t agree more mate. Imagine our list now without those two.

 

[Kennedy84]

I

As is evidenced by our inability to recruit A grade talent with cash, we are not getting to the summit any other way.

Steven, whilst in our best two or three players, isn't our most important in terms of structure or marketability, and, as I previously said, will not be around when we are contending again so whilst he is worth something, let's get that.

My previous scenario stays the same but we could live trade 15 and 18 for a future 1st?

I think now that we have gone with hanneberry, rebuild part 2 is on hold.

 

[Sippa]

I’m taking 6+15 for 4 every day of the week ... take Smith (I think we need a mid the most ) and we get a good player at 15 and we are laughing

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

The problem with Sincs (and all of our youngsters) were that they were indirectly set up to fail this year by selection and game plan.
If that doesn’t change we will never see the best from our youngsters.

 

[Bigsaints]

The problem with Sincs (and all of our youngsters) were that they were indirectly set up to fail this year by selection and game plan.
If that doesn’t change we will never see the best from our youngsters.

Can you please explain this gameplan to me? I can't make it to live games and the way the game is televised you don't see the big picture.

 

[Saint Watto]

I think you might be surprised how much AFL clubs are gleaning from opposition codes.

Your honor....I present Exhibit A...….Clarko.

 

[plugger66]

The problem with Sincs (and all of our youngsters) were that they were indirectly set up to fail this year by selection and game plan.
If that doesn’t change we will never see the best from our youngsters.

Seems very easy to say but hardly makes sense. Agenda driven.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The problem with Sincs (and all of our youngsters) were that they were indirectly set up to fail this year by selection and game plan.
If that doesn’t change we will never see the best from our youngsters.

Well I would hope that too has been thoroughly reviewed.
And that Richo is challenged by our new coaches.
Is there still one more to come?

 

[jwikked]

Seems very easy to say but hardly makes sense. Agenda driven.

Sinclair was played anywhere except the position he excelled at last year. It is easy to say because it's true.

Why did the Saints suddenly look a little better when the coaches agreed to trust their players to play?

 

[Sab22]

Sinclair was played anywhere except the position he excelled at last year. It is easy to say because it's true.

Why did the Saints suddenly look a little better when the coaches agreed to trust their players to play?

Acres as ruck lol, gears on wing, armo and Ross at HB, Carlisle forward/ruck, Paton forward/wing when hes suited for HB.

 

[Mikka84]

I

I think now that we have gone with hanneberry, rebuild part 2 is on hold.

On the contrary - I think rebuild b is in full flight. Just done right this time.

We are mimicking Melbourne’s rebuild strategy. We just need to nail the picks over the next two years.

 

[StCicatriz]

So here's the low down on Jesse Hogan and why we won't and cannot make a move for him.

Jesse had a significant injury to the navicular bone and only came out of the moon boot 2-3 weeks back. Public stance is its a stress fracture which if not managed correctly could become very very serious. Its a hard injury to manage and has ruined careers. He is yet to put any match day loads on it and is still in the rest and monitor phase. Fremantle has done a medical on him but the problem is any short term assessment on the injury cannot be completed until after the trade period is finalised. So it's a big risk. In all reality you potentially will not know the answer until next year. So that's the first issue you are gambling on a very serious injury with no insight into how it's progressing and if he will recover.

The 2nd thing is he and his management are demanding that his current terms at Melbourne are continued and extended. This means 900k a year. Potentially more. On a lengthy deal.

Melbourne are open to trading and are initiating the whole thing including leaking to the media because as we all know they want may. But I think they also do not have confidence in his ability to overcome the injury. So they're trying to slyly move him at a high and bring in May.

The last thing is Fremantle have determined they do not want someone like him at their club. That is not assessment on positional need or money or injury. Its purely character. Now if that's a bluff they're going about the whole thing really badly and it will massively backfire on them but people around the club here are adamant it's not. That's a massive point of concern. But you couple that with the two previously mentioned points and that's why they're not interested anymore.

Fremantle have wanted a big power forward for so long. They finally get his request to join the club, go through the process and suddenly they're not keen. That's a massive red flag.

Tbh it's raised 3 big red flags and we should avoid him at all costs before you look at positional need:
1) question marks over a very serious injury
2) massive contract demands
3) off field question marks

Oh and the other piece of news to hit over here. The big issue at GWS is Jeremy Cameron is the main source of salary cap issues. His salary goes up to 1.4m. Scully was front loaded so he's only on 400k next year so like Gibbs he's double dipping albeit he's not too happy with how his injury was managed.

WCE not into lobb. Lycett almost pulled the pin. Geelong won't name a price for Kelly. Brander staying.

 

[Sab22]

This is just my opinion. I think we got our young core set, I feel like we are lacking in the senior core. Gears is a hard worker, Armo is pretty good with kids, Weller & Sav ain't that useful, Robbo has ???. We dont have a leader who can lead by example, sets the standards on and off the field. We sorta addressed it with Hanners, but we need more. We need someone like Roo or Lenny, but no one can be either of those two but someone similar.

 

[Darkhour]

I'd like to think that part of Lethers and the club's review this year was in regards to the players too and playing them in different positions.. we weren't competing this year etc..

I'd love to know if they were being ground into the Track each week too. Does anyone know?

 

[plugger66]

Sinclair was played anywhere except the position he excelled at last year. It is easy to say because it's true.

Why did the Saints suddenly look a little better when the coaches agreed to trust their players to play?

You know why they were played out of position. Poor recruiting. Getting to many similar types who couldn’t play elsewhere which meant others who can play elsewhere had to even if it meant they weren’t at their best. That’s why I said agenda driven. That guy refuses to acknowledge poor recruiting so just blames coaching instead of many issues including recruiting and coaching

 

[plugger66]

I'd like to think that part of Lethers and the club's review this year was in regards to the players too and playing them in different positions.. we weren't competing this year etc..

I'd love to know if they were being ground into the Track each week too. Does anyone know?

They would train pretty much the same as every club

 

[plugger66]

Acres as ruck lol, gears on wing, armo and Ross at HB, Carlisle forward/ruck, Paton forward/wing when hes suited for HB.

None of those things happened when we were at our worst.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The problem with Sincs (and all of our youngsters) were that they were indirectly set up to fail this year by selection and game plan.
If that doesn’t change we will never see the best from our youngsters.

Yep, it was a disaster right from the get-go.

Richo says in the interview during one of our AFLX games that it's the young ones who are the ones who will take us that next step, so what do he and our coaching staff do?

Instead of playing these guys that he says are the most important to our hopes of progressing in their best positions, to make it easiest for them to improve and take us that next step, he starts the year with a bunch of them out of position, or in the VFL!

They play Steele on the wing, where he's very ordinary, Sinclair (who played by far his best footy on the wing in the previous year) forward (where he hasn't been much chop since his debut year), after saying over the summer that Acres will be "one of the most improved mids in the comp this year", they play him on the wing in round 1, and he's one of our best 2 or 3, then instead of leaving him there to thrive, they prioritise the out-of-form, good-ordinary Newnes there, and play Acres mostly forward again from the following week, then they start playing him in the ruck!

Then you've got Dunstan, who got the most votes in our B&F for the last 6 rounds of last year, who in their wisdom they start in the VFL, so that they can play an Armo that Richo later admits wasn't ready to play seniors at that stage. Once they bring Luke back in he kicks off where he left off last year, with a couple of 30 disposal games.

Then there was Lonie, who was one of our best in AFLX and against Carlton in JLT1, and who looked really sharp and like he'd gotten his game together again, who they dropped for JLT2, which was another decision that really shocked me at the time, having been really happy with what I saw of him live the previous few weeks. He was playing like he ended up playing late in the year.

Even Billings. I suspect he spent a lot of time training in the midfield over preseason and was expecting and wanting to play a lot more there during the season, but he was back to playing exclusively forward again and he really struggled to get going until they dropped him.

So I just think it was a car crash and that we shot ourselves in the foot big-time with all that, with pretty much all of it backfiring, and as a result our season was largely over before it started, with our form and confidence shot amongst the young group as a whole in particular. The young group we were relying on taking us that next step.

I suspect we put it on them in a pretty big way over preseason to step up and fill the shoes of Roo and co, and then we proceeded to play a bunch of them in positions that gave them little chance to do so, or even worse, played them in the VFL. So they probably felt a lot of pressure to perform and that they were letting the whole club down. Great for confidence and morale.

 

[Saint Watto]

Oh and the other piece of news to hit over here. The big issue at GWS is Jeremy Cameron is the main source of salary cap issues. His salary goes up to 1.4m. Scully was front loaded so he's only on 400k next year so like Gibbs he's double dipping albeit he's not too happy with how his injury was managed.

WCE not into lobb. Lycett almost pulled the pin. Geelong won't name a price for Kelly. Brander staying.

St.C…....your the Scotty Palmer of W.A !

A very very interesting post.

 

[Joffaboy]

Acres as ruck lol, gears on wing, armo and Ross at HB, Carlisle forward/ruck, Paton forward/wing when hes suited for HB.

Most of those were moves and for very short periods of time.
Don't bullshit that this was their full-time positions.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[plugger66]

Yep, it was a disaster right from the get-go.

Richo says in the interview during one of our AFLX games that it's the young ones who are the ones who will take us that next step, so what do he and our coaching staff do?

Instead of playing these guys that he says are the most important to our hopes of progressing in their best positions, to make it easiest for them to improve and take us that next step, he starts the year with a bunch of them out of position, or in the VFL!

They play Steele on the wing, where he's very ordinary, Sinclair (who played by far his best footy on the wing in the previous year) forward (where he hasn't been much chop since his debut year), after saying over the summer that Acres will be "one of the most improved mids in the comp this year", they play him on the wing in round 1, and he's one of our best 2 or 3, then instead of leaving him there to thrive, they prioritise the out-of-form, good-ordinary Newnes there, and play Acres mostly forward again from the following week, then they start playing him in the ruck!

Then you've got Dunstan, who got the most votes in our B&F for the last 6 rounds of last year, who in their wisdom they start in the VFL, so that they can play an Armo that Richo later admits wasn't ready to play seniors at that stage. Once they bring Luke back in he kicks off where he left off last year, with a couple of 30 disposal games.

Then there was Lonie, who was one of our best in AFLX and against Carlton in JLT1, and who looked really sharp and like he'd gotten his game together again, who they dropped for JLT2, which was another decision that really shocked me at the time, having been really happy with what I saw of him live the previous few weeks. He was playing like he ended up playing late in the year.

Even Billings. I suspect he spent a lot of time training in the midfield over preseason and was expecting and wanting to play a lot more there during the season, but he was back to playing exclusively forward again and he really struggled to get going until they dropped him.

So I just think it was a car crash and that we shot ourselves in the foot big-time with all that, and as a result our season was largely over before it started, with our form and confidence shot.

The reason dunstan started in the vfl is exactly the reason I said. Poor recruiting. To many the same. Exactly why Steele was on the wing

 

[SaintersUnite]

4 and 28 for 6 and 10/15, ontrade 10/15 to the Giants for Scully cause that’ll be overs and they’ll love it. Just have to convince Scully to pull his finger out and realise that money is more important than a medal. 6 will be just as good as 4 cause the top 6 players are all interchangeable and King will most likely drop to 6 if that happens anyway.

I’ll post this every day until it’s done (or something else that ruins this scenario is). Come on Saints, I know you can pull this off.