2019 5th Ashes Test 12-17 September - The Oval

[Andronicus]

Paine is big boy and can probably handle what will thrown at him from all directions after this Test but posts like this and others that criticism should at least try to resemble something constructive.

What more did it need to say?

It pretty clearly said that the decision to bowl was not a good one. How constructive is constructive enough?

 

[JackBero]

SH*T

 

[HK_Hawk]

One of the teams has stayed at home the whole time, and the other team has spent the entire time in a different hemisphere.

I’d expect them to be big boys who can handle some time abroad away from mummy. Hell, they could even get excited and enjoy the experience. As to hemispheres and time zones, no excuse. They’ve had ample time to adjust.

 

[Saint12]

Nice try.
Langer has said he wanted to bat and that's what the plan was just before the toss.

Apparently, Paine changed his mind at the last minute on a hunch.

If true that is staggering...so staggering I can't believe it to be true

 

[Phone]

The Oval is not the only time Paine has asked England to bat. I assume his decision at Lords was also based on a hunch? I accept the explanation but it doesn't actually fill me with confidence.



Not entirely sure how that works but Tim Paine obviously had his reasoning behind it.

After having to play to save the Test at Lords I would have thought Paine would have been wary of batting last. It is not about the opposition batting first as much as the possibility of batting last on a five day old wicket.

Anyone can make a mistake but you really have to learn from that mistake and not repeat the episode.

The likely explanation for that is the loss of a day (and likely more time over the course of the test) meant that the best path to victory (for either side) was by quickly and cheaply bowling out the other side in the 3rd innings of the match, meaning that a 4th innings wasn't need, or would be very short. It didn't lead to victory as Australia didn't perform well enough with the bat in their 1st innings to put much scoreboard pressure on England going into their 2nd innings, and England's lower order (Stokes, Butler and Bairstow) performed well and prevented a low score, but the flip side to that is Australia only had to face 45 odd overs to save the match. England faced a couple more overs than Australia on the same day 5 wicket for the loss of only one wicket.

It's an unusual piece of captaincy from Paine in that it was entirely logical

 

[Mateyman]

The likely explanation for that is the loss of a day (and likely more time over the course of the test) meant that the best path to victory (for either side) was by quickly and cheaply bowling out the other side in the 3rd innings of the match, meaning that a 4th innings wasn't need, or would be very short. It didn't lead to victory as Australia didn't perform well enough with the bat in their 1st innings to put much scoreboard pressure on England going into their 2nd innings, and England's lower order (Stokes, Butler and Bairstow) performed well and prevented a low score, but the flip side to that is Australia only had to face 45 odd overs to save the match. England faced a couple more overs on the same day 5 wicket than Australia did for the loss of only one wicket.

It's an unusual piece of captaincy from Paine in that it was entirely logical

No but what you don't understand is that when you're at the toss you bat first 9 times out of 10 and then think about it and bat first the 10th time! If you bat first your batsmen become more competent and you don't get Skittles for 220 in ideal batting conditions - not sure what part of this you don't understand

 

[Tugga27]

If true that is staggering...so staggering I can't believe it to be true

Ponting was out in the middle when they tossed the coin.
When he saw that Paine won it, he told the Sky commentators
that Australia were batting and walked off.

You'd think he was in the know.

Larger said he was surprised but unsurprisingly backed the captain saying something like "you have to back your captain if he had a gut feeling".

This was all on Paine.

 

[Andronicus]

I’d expect them to be big boys who can handle some time abroad away from mummy. Hell, they could even get excited and enjoy the experience. As to hemispheres and time zones, no excuse. They’ve had ample time to adjust.

All that aside, I just offered a reason as to why one team may be suffering fatigue more than another.

Wasnt based on timezones.

You are happy to ignore the fact they are on the road for months, but suggest that playing an extra game in the WC might have done more to fatigue England.

 

[philreich]

Nice try.
Langer has said he wanted to bat and that's what the plan was just before the toss.

Apparently, Paine changed his mind at the last minute on a hunch.

Well if we could catch, that hunch might have had an ounce of merit.

 

[Saint12]

When can Smith be captain again?

March?

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Just let Smith bat, he's not much of a Captain either

 

[treeman]

Can't wait for the final two days of this test match.
Smith to make a double century, Labby to make a century. Plenty of time to bat.

No worries.

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[The Convert]

The goal is always to retain the Ashes.

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No the goal is to win, the fallback is to retain

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[samFFC]

Nah we've got this one in the bag. We'll be chasing 404 to win, with the modern day version of Bradman scoring 173 not out. The only thing I haven't worked out is which one of our openers will play the Arthur Morris role and score 182 - maybe Warner will be dropped 12 times, play and miss 47 times, and be dismissed off a no ball 5 times.....

Speaking of Shane Warne cricket 99 earlier in this thread, that was a chase you could do in the “classic matches” part of that game.

Ah nostalgia!

 

[The Convert]

How many of these batsmen will score under 10 in our 2nd dig

Harris
Warner
Wade
Marsh
Paine

A:3
B:4
C:all of them

I'll take B thanks Eddie

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[rapido]

Today is going to be so predictable.
Australia chases 412, then
1/7
2/21
3/101
4/134
5/140
6/140
7/167
8/171
9/236
10/239
Smith the last wicket to fall for 108.

 

[Kram]

Speaking of Shane Warne cricket 99 earlier in this thread, that was a chase you could do in the “classic matches” part of that game.

Ah nostalgia!

I used to hit some massive scores in 20 over matches on that, they seemed ridiculous at the time compared to what happened in real life until...

 

[swanssince2002]

Ahh reminds me of Ricky Ponting Cricket 2005. The last classic match between England and the West Indies in the Champions trophy final was pretty hard. Had to chase down the total with the tailenders... most of the time the stumps went flying.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

How many of these batsmen will score under 10 in our 2nd dig

Harris
Warner
Wade
Marsh
Paine

A:3
B:4
C:all of them

Harris and Warner. But none of them score 25 or more.

 

[troybe]

Did we finally clone Steve?

I always think of this cartoon and can be attached to any era of cricket. Just substitute Wessels for Smith and Lawson for Cummins.



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[Present Not Past]

At the end of their Ashes campaign Cricket Australia are still dealing with the fallout from Sandpapergate.
They are stuck with a Captain and an opener they don't want but don't know how to move them on.

 

[deanc]

Nah we've got this one in the bag. We'll be chasing 404 to win, with the modern day version of Bradman scoring 173 not out. The only thing I haven't worked out is which one of our openers will play the Arthur Morris role and score 182 - maybe Warner will be dropped 12 times, play and miss 47 times, and be dismissed off a no ball 5 times.....

ASHES HEADLINES, Stumps Day 4:

Australia 1-277. Warner and Paine tons set-up World record 419 run chase.

Skipper Paine tells critics to GAGF in expletive riddled presser after make-shift opener remains unbeaten on 134.

 

[wolmeister]

At the end of their Ashes campaign Cricket Australia are still dealing with the fallout from Sandpapergate.
They are stuck with a Captain and an opener they don't want but don't know how to move them on.

The captain I can understand but not the opener. He's not contributing anything and they'd lose nothing playing Burns or anyone else for that matter. Broad has smashed his confidence and I think he's done personally. However, I read in an article on cricket.com.au that Ponting reckons there are three locks for the first test of the summer; Smith, Lab and Warner. He reckons he doesn't care if Warner scores another duck, he's in.

 

[HK_Hawk]

All that aside, I just offered a reason as to why one team may be suffering fatigue more than another.

Wasnt based on timezones.

You are happy to ignore the fact they are on the road for months, but suggest that playing an extra game in the WC might have done more to fatigue England.

No, I am simply suggesting the argument of fatigue only applying to the Aussies does not explain, but rather just excuses this performance. "On the road for months" does not have to create fatigue. That is up to the individual mindsets and beliefs each player and the team have about being in that situation.

 

[HBF]

Will still be tuning in tonight so see how we go. Clearly going to be chasing around the 400 mark. At the start of the series, most of us would have taken a 2-2 scoreline. We have the ashes.

 

[Gough]

Will still be tuning in tonight so see how we go. Clearly going to be chasing around the 400 mark. At the start of the series, most of us would have taken a 2-2 scoreline. We have the ashes.

We're going to be chasing s***loads, I'd like to see them put in a good effort at getting them, make the bugger come back tomorrow.