List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[LukeParkerno1]

A dynamic tall who - IMO - has as much talent as any of the talls being mentioned as top 5 prospects (if not the body of work), in an area we are clearly lacking with our list... is a "silly player" to live trade for? Bargains like him are exactly the kind you live trade for.

And before you knock him, please tell me which games you have seen of his?

I wouldn't be live trading this season UNLESS it's for the GC pick 5 (and even then I probably wouldn't having thought about it). I would anticipate there would be 5 times the amount of players available in 2021 like Neale, this isn't a deep drat, we just don't know enough about these kids, everyone is taking guesses after the first round really. Any other year I wouldn't bother about Gulden but pick lets say 25 in this draft he's at least a sort of known commodity. There is a good reason plenty of sides are not even bothering this year, for instance West Coast isn't in the draft till the 60's.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

How's trading for a ruck worked out so far?

Have we traded for the right ones? That's the issue not the strategy.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

This is why you draft the ruck now. So we don't end in the exact same situation where we are now:
-Unable to find a ruck who wants to come to Sydney
-Overpay for a stop gap

How did we overpay? Literally was a player swap and we banked more points in the process.

 

[caesar88]

Have we traded for the right ones? That's the issue not the strategy.

We've tried to trade for decent ones, like Ladhams. But to trade in a quality player usually requires giving something up, like maybe draft picks, which I think would put you in hospital.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

We've tried to trade for decent ones, like Ladhams. But to trade in a quality player usually requires giving something up, like maybe draft picks, which I think would put you in hospital.

We should have gone for Pruess harder last time for example. Not sure we have gone for the right ones.

 

[BloodySwan]

How did we overpay? Literally was a player swap and we banked more points in the process.

As happy as I am to get Hickey, for every other club he wouldn't be 1st choice ruck option. Literally scrapping the barrel here

 

[BloodySwan]

We should have gone for Pruess harder last time for example. Not sure we have gone for the right ones.

Yep, we should have overpaid for Pruess. Would definitely have gotten him that way

 

[MarkP]

I don't get this thinking, this then must apply to every bid that gets matched not just number 1. Are the draftees so insecure they cannot handle not being the first choice of a club...the whole draft is filled with players who are not the clubs first choice so why is it an issue at the first pick. If the 10k is a reason, then you are picking a player who is not so confident in their own ability to generate plenty more than that in years to come. Make no mistake, between themselves the boys know who the number 1 pick is.

This comes up so often it is simply ridiculous to have as a reason Adelaide would not pick JUH. They should definitely pick him as you never know, there just might be a reason the Dogs cant match the bid, very unlikely of course, however, they will be derelict in their duty to the footy club if they do not select the clear number 1 pick first. Put it on the Dogs to match, then go for Tilthorpe or McDonald or whoever....

I am with you.

I bet Jack Watts for example wishes he went at pick 2.

I would bid on JUH all day everyday and be tickled pink to get him.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

As happy as I am to get Hickey, for every other club he wouldn't be 1st choice ruck option. Literally scrapping the barrel here

He's more than solid and we just gave up a player who wasn't part of our side going forward. Rucks are important but only to a degree. Your midfield is more important.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yep, we should have overpaid for Pruess. Would definitely have gotten him that way

He's the type we needed to go for but at the time he wanted to stay in Melbourne so who knows.

 

[Kiama Chris]

A dynamic tall who - IMO - has as much talent as any of the talls being mentioned as top 5 prospects (if not the body of work), in an area we are clearly lacking with our list... is a "silly player" to live trade for? Bargains like him are exactly the kind you live trade for.

And before you knock him, please tell me which games you have seen of his?

I think the big question here is "when do we expect this fella to be mature enough to be our #1 ruck"?
We probably won't see Naismith again (nice if we do but plan for the worst).
Sinkers is 31 and battered.
Hickey is what? 29? But in decent health, and hopefully will last the whole 3 years.
Amartey is a good age but looks a bit shy of the standard. Will he be good enough in 4 years time?
McLean is a forward/ruck like Amartey, not a #1 ruck.
Someone taken in this draft will be 23 when the 2024 season starts. JUST ripening. Waiting another year is not a great idea. He will be even less ready.
Hopefully in 2 years one of the two academy rucks will be ready to begin their development.
Take one now as we have the space.

 

[mikey_san]

ET gonski - what a waste.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

ET gonski - what a waste.

Yep very unfortunate. Had really high hopes for him too.

 

[caesar88]

We should have gone for Pruess harder last time for example. Not sure we have gone for the right ones.

Or maybe rucks are just consistently in-demand, and that much harder to trade in?

This notion of "next year's draft" irks me. There's always a "next year's draft". When does that stop mattering so much? It's a loser's mentality. Granted we are a bottom four side atm and some decisions we've made have not filled me with confidence that that will change. But we should be aiming for nothing less than a premiership next year, not a top 5 draft pick. That should be nothing more than a consolation prize for having a disappointing season. When a top 5 pick, let one that's twelve months away, starts to dictate your decisions as a club, that's when you become Carlton or Melbourne.

So I hope the powers that be at our club aren't taking philosophy lessons on rebuilding from you.

 

[caesar88]

I think the big question here is "when do we expect this fella to be mature enough to be our #1 ruck"?
We probably won't see Naismith again (nice if we do but plan for the worst).
Sinkers is 31 and battered.
Hickey is what? 29? But in decent health, and hopefully will last the whole 3 years.
Amartey is a good age but looks a bit shy of the standard. Will he be good enough in 4 years time?
McLean is a forward/ruck like Amartey, not a #1 ruck.
Someone taken in this draft will be 23 when the 2024 season starts. JUST ripening. Waiting another year is not a great idea. He will be even less ready.
Hopefully in 2 years one of the two academy rucks will be ready to begin their development.
Take one now as we have the space.

I think Neale could also more than handily play as a key forward while learning his craft pinch-hitting in the ruck. Maybe an 80/20 forward/ruck split and then evening that number up with each year he gets bigger and stronger.

That's IF we want him in the 22. If we're content to play the long game, let him spend a few seasons as main ruck in the VFL.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Or maybe rucks are just consistently in-demand, and that much harder to trade in?

This notion of "next year's draft" irks me. There's always a "next year's draft". When does that stop mattering so much? It's a loser's mentality. Granted we are a bottom four side atm and some decisions we've made have not filled me with confidence that that will change. But we should be aiming for nothing less than a premiership next year, not a top 5 draft pick. That should be nothing more than a consolation prize for having a disappointing season. When a top 5 pick, let one that's twelve months away, starts to dictate your decisions as a club, that's when you become Carlton or Melbourne.

So I hope the powers that be at our club aren't taking philosophy lessons on rebuilding from you.

I do expect us to go up the ladder next year, whether that be to coming 10th or so who knows. We should be aiming to improve but at the same time, we have to be realistic we are not going from a bottom 4 finish to a top 4 finish. Just won't happen. After next year's crop the draft should become less and less important as we should look to trade in pieces. We are actually pretty close, probably only 1-2 drafts off being a top 6 side.

 

[BloodySwan]

The club needs:
-Key Forwards
-Midfield strength & depth
-Ruck depth

If there's a player available who can fill that need you take him.

The way I see it
McCartin fills a need for key forwards
Campbell & Phillips fill a need for midfield strength & depth
Neale fills the need for ruck depth

 

[dosser]

ET gonski - what a waste.

Does that mean another list spot has opened up?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

We need mids and especially insides a lot more than a ruck, we need a ruck, we need to address our midfield more. Aside from Rowbotom who are our inside mids going forward? Warner maybe, but that's a big maybe...then it's a big question mark. It is why I'd be investigating what price GC's pick 5 is. Now would they do it, who knows. Would we do it who knows? It should be worth at least trying.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Does that mean another list spot has opened up?

Yes correct.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Surely we grab 4 in the draft now?

Pick 3
Match Gulden & Campbell
Live trade for Shannon Neale

2 rookie spots left
Paddy McCartin
Speedy half back flanker

We currently have 33 on the senior list.
If we take 3 in the draft we will have the minimum of 36 seniors. We currently have 5 rookies for a total of 41. We can have three more players, 2 more rookies maximum.
Hope my arithmetic is right!!!
For those 3 places I would take:
Paddy McCartin as a DFA and rookie him.
Take Neale or similar and rookie him.
Or rookie some others.
Leave one senior space unfilled.

 

[mikey_san]

Yep very unfortunate. Had really high hopes for him too.

Was reported to have "issues" prior to his draft so was a roll of the dice - even at the level he was picked at.
Not sure the Swans would have seen the issues as presented coming though.
Wonder what our due diligence entailed?

Disappointing end all round. He showed some real promise, but the club had no choice but to take this action if there were no extraordinary circumstances.

The timing just prior to sentencing...perhaps his legal team requested if it was going to happen, please do it now.... him losing his career due to his actions may be taken into consideration by the judge in sentencing.

I'm all in for Neale as a young ruck with solid physique, good athleticism - we absolutely need a back up this year, not next IMO.

 

[Kiama Chris]

We should have gone for Pruess harder last time for example. Not sure we have gone for the right ones.

I think we might find Hickey to be a better acquisition than Preuss.
Fit better in the team, make a more positive contribution, especially if we obtain another young ruck, had a very decent season for WC in 2019. What has Preuss done?

 

[Tedeski]

They make it sound like it was a mutual decision to part ways, and Taylor wanted it just as much as the Swans. In reality we wanted him gone and basically fired him. Not that I am not pleased we fired him, but the business talk about collective view and the business talk associated with that is weird.

Sponsor killer!
See ya!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I think we might find Hickey to be a better acquisition than Preuss.
Fit better in the team, make a more positive contribution, especially if we obtain another young ruck, had a very decent season for WC in 2019. What has Preuss done?

Yep I like the Hickey acquisition. Very smart trade, we lose a player that wasn’t going to be that important going forward, get Hickey in and back extra points. Very astute trade.