List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Chief]

This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...

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[Madas]

Think the issues are:
(a) they are both 27 years old - so how many years are they going to give you before you have to go and find the next KPF messiah?
(b) the currency required - could be at the expense of getting young talent we can develop and get 10 years out of
(c) would they come? - can we guarantee them best 22 status?
(d) Brown + Tabs too slow? - our forward line being slow has been a problem, Brown doesn't fix that, possibly makes it worse
(e) Mihocek is inconsistent - the best is great but the Pies haven't seen enough of it, otherwise they would have locked him in. Given tall forward targets is arguably their main weakness, if they are willing to give him up that should raise alarm bells surely?
(f) should we give up on Hogan? - we know his ceiling is great, we saw glimpses of form in the final few games. Might we not have the pieces, just require more time for it to come together?

It's a window thing for me
I think Mihocek has his best years to come and I reckon it fits right into our 2 year zone

 

[more_of_bito]

Ben Brown for our 2nd round in a heart beat for me.

Guy is a top 3 full forward the past 2017-2019 challenging for a Coleman each year. Any shallow background read realise the stress he’s been through this year with his heartbreaking family situation.

Averages 2.2 goals a game. Lobb 0.8..
Guy can mark and kick a goal. Bargain.

 

[_007_]

Poor mans Andy Brayshaw

They couldn't be more unalike imo.

 

[CapitalA]

It's a window thing for me
I think Mihocek has his best years to come and I reckon it fits right into our 2 year zone

We have a better forward who is in the exact same age demographic who i would say is the closest like for like his name is Taberner.

 

[_007_]

They spelt Heppell wrong

Can't see it happening but he'd be a good pickup imo. One of my favourite non freo players so perhaps I am biased.

 

[CapitalA]

Ben Brown for our 2nd round in a heart beat for me.

Guy is a top 3 full forward the past 2017-2019 challenging for a Coleman each year. Any shallow background read realise the stress he’s been through this year with his heartbreaking family situation.

Averages 2.2 goals a game. Lobb 0.8..
Guy can mark and kick a goal. Bargain.

How much is he gonna cost he turned down 4 years at 750k for crying out loud.

 

[Madas]

Mihocek's a good player but he's not the superstar you think he is. He's a downgrade on Hogan at his best. If you're going to play three talls forward, one of them has to ruck. Brown doesn't ruck.

Hogan probably smarter player and maybe better , but pretty slow and does he cover the same ground as what Mihocek does ?

Walters Tabs Sturt
Hogan Lobb Mihocek

good on paper but no Schultzy type pressure in there unless the others apply it .
but then again Schultzy don't hit the scoreboard much
It's a tough one

 

[CapitalA]

Hogan probably smarter player and maybe better , but pretty slow and does he cover the same ground as what Mihocek does ?

Walters Tabs Sturt
Hogan Lobb Mihocek

good on paper but no Schultzy type pressure in there unless the others apply it .
but then again Schultzy don't hit the scoreboard much
It's a tough one

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020
Matt Taberner, 12.3km
Brett Bewley, 11.9km
Blake Acres, 11.6km
Rory Lobb, 11.5km
Jesse Hogan, 11.3km

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020
Jack Crisp, 12.1km
Steele Sidebottom, 12.1km
Tom Phillips, 11.5km
Isaac Quaynor, 11.3km
Scott Pendlebury, 11.2km

 

[Madas]

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020
Matt Taberner, 12.3km
Brett Bewley, 11.9km
Blake Acres, 11.6km
Rory Lobb, 11.5km
Jesse Hogan, 11.3km

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020
Jack Crisp, 12.1km
Steele Sidebottom, 12.1km
Tom Phillips, 11.5km
Isaac Quaynor, 11.3km
Scott Pendlebury, 11.2km

Thanks
That is impressive from Hogan

Where do you find that info ?
Is that Footywire ?

 

[heypenny]

If we keep Hogan, I don't see where Mihocek fits in with Tabs and Lobb also playing (and Fyfe in rotation). I'm also a little bit sick of bringing in forwards that don't deliver. Anthony, Gumbelton, McCarthy, Kersten, Hogan etc. We seem to be a graveyard for key position forwards.

Watching King play today. I really want us to recruit and develop our own. Either this year or next year, I would like us to draft a KPP with our first pick.

 

[rgauci]

Going back a few pages the discussion was around why we aren't scoring .
IMO a big part of it is that there is little confidence in our forward line from the other 12 players on the field

We have a good enough back line and midfield to move the ball quickly if we needed to , problem is there's no point because we lack short burst forwards that create space and have the skills and confidence to nail the inside 50 deliveries consistently.

then there is the crumbers

Tabs is working well with the contested possession but when he doesn't clunk it our smalls are not crumbing properly in play or from stoppages.

Hence a few of us on here I believe are of the opinion a major shake up is needed to address that problem.

For those that argue that's its risky bringing in a forward like Mihocek, I counter with the argument that isn't it equally risky to persist with Hogan?

I was really looking forward to seeing the Hogan we were waiting for in our last game, it was his time to shine .... didn't turn up again!
He's not the sole problem up there but IMO he's the weakest link .

Its the Mihocek type player ( Hogan/ Sturt ) that we are lacking . Don't need a Brown - Tabs and Lobb have got this covered ( Lobb can't go , need his Ruck and I think he had a bad year , is much better than what we saw)

Adresss the forwards!!
Someone prior said they felt sick from the Mihocek talk ; well I feel equally sick thinking of another 25 years of rebuild and development!

Lobb is by far the weakest link up front. Tabs > Hogan > Lobb. Just Lobb is multipositional.

 

[sdfc]

Hogan probably smarter player and maybe better , but pretty slow and does he cover the same ground as what Mihocek does ?

Walters Tabs Sturt
Hogan Lobb Mihocek

good on paper but no Schultzy type pressure in there unless the others apply it .
but then again Schultzy don't hit the scoreboard much
It's a tough one

Hogan covers plenty of ground.

That forward line is top heavy.

 

[CapitalA]

Thanks
That is impressive from Hogan

Where do you find that info ?
Is that Footywire ?

Each club's strongest runners

Who runs the hardest and longest at each club?

www.fremantlefc.com.au

 

[sdfc]

If we keep Hogan, I don't see where Mihocek fits in with Tabs and Lobb also playing (and Fyfe in rotation). I'm also a little bit sick of bringing in forwards that don't deliver. Anthony, Gumbelton, McCarthy, Kersten, Hogan etc. We seem to be a graveyard for key position forwards.

Watching King play today. I really want us to recruit and develop our own. Either this year or next year, I would like us to draft a KPP with our first pick.

Let's not write Hogan off just yet. At his best he's a gun, the type of player that makes us more likely to win a flag.

 

[Madas]

Hogan covers plenty of ground.

That forward line is top heavy.

Yes I'm hearing you .
I'm wary of going too North Melbourne tall 5 years ago , Waite .Brown . Petrie

Dont know what the answer is .
Time ..... to develop young gun probably is the answer but I'm just concerned we don't have that luxury with Fyfe, Mundy and Walters age

If Sturt fires and stays healthy and Hogan pulls his socks up and gets his confidence then all of a sudden we have a very healthy forward line .

 

[Dockeroo]

They couldn't be more unalike imo.

Watched him a few times this year. He’s a hard tabling mid, averages about 4 tackles a game. Disposal efficiency of 67% from 18 disposals this season. Not particularly damaging in possession either from what I watched this season. Who’s place is he taking in our midfield?
I feel like Brayshaw is better in all of these key stats already. Aware that smith won a B&F a few years ago but not the same player based on this years form anyway. Also has serious injury history having had a knee reconstruction I think (not 100% on that).

 

[Dockeroo]

If late mail from the draft suggested that Thilthorpe was going to fall to within three or so picks of us, would it be worth using 28 to move from 10 up to say, 7?

 

[Bring back Drum]

Let's not write Hogan off just yet. At his best he's a gun, the type of player that makes us more likely to win a flag.

I think Superkoops mentioned Dusty Martin in comparison to Hogan. Dusty was a dead set campaigner his first 3 or 4 years at Richmond, but they held firm. He shopped around & a lot of Richmond supporters weren’t to fussed if he left.

Players with this type of talent are few & far between & if Hogan matures & is in a good head space, which it looked like he had for a lot of this season, then we may get similar benefits as Richmond did with Dusty.

I am concerned though with the injury history of both Hogan & Tabs & saw this year how important Tabs is to our structure, including the last game when he didn’t play, we were no threat forward of centre in the air.

I get the feeling every game will be important to us next year as we will be in a finals race & losing Tabs, Hogan or Lobb for any games will effect our structure. I would like a viable option to come in & keep that structure.

Perhaps Cox can do that if needed & the tall backs are healthy?

 

[eastfreo75]

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020
Matt Taberner, 12.3km
Brett Bewley, 11.9km
Blake Acres, 11.6km
Rory Lobb, 11.5km
Jesse Hogan, 11.3km

Top-five most distance covered per game in 2020
Jack Crisp, 12.1km
Steele Sidebottom, 12.1km
Tom Phillips, 11.5km
Isaac Quaynor, 11.3km
Scott Pendlebury, 11.2km

Short games

 

[sdfc]

I think Superkoops mentioned Dusty Martin in comparison to Hogan. Dusty was a dead set campaigner his first 3 or 4 years at Richmond, but they held firm. He shopped around & a lot of Richmond supporters weren’t to fussed if he left.

Players with this type of talent are few & far between & if Hogan matures & is in a good head space, which it looked like he had for a lot of this season, then we may get similar benefits as Richmond did with Dusty.

I am concerned though with the injury history of both Hogan & Tabs & saw this year how important Tabs is to our structure, including the last game when he didn’t play, we were no threat forward of centre in the air.

I get the feeling every game will be important to us next year as we will be in a finals race & losing Tabs, Hogan or Lobb for any games will effect our structure. I would like a viable option to come in & keep that structure.

Perhaps Cox can do that if needed & the tall backs are healthy?

I'd be surprised if we don't take a young key forward in the draft. Cox may be needed elsewhere.

 

[CapitalA]

Short games

What's your point?

 

[mike91]

I think Superkoops mentioned Dusty Martin in comparison to Hogan. Dusty was a dead set campaigner his first 3 or 4 years at Richmond, but they held firm. He shopped around & a lot of Richmond supporters weren’t to fussed if he left.

Players with this type of talent are few & far between & if Hogan matures & is in a good head space, which it looked like he had for a lot of this season, then we may get similar benefits as Richmond did with Dusty.

I am concerned though with the injury history of both Hogan & Tabs & saw this year how important Tabs is to our structure, including the last game when he didn’t play, we were no threat forward of centre in the air.

I get the feeling every game will be important to us next year as we will be in a finals race & losing Tabs, Hogan or Lobb for any games will effect our structure. I would like a viable option to come in & keep that structure.

Perhaps Cox can do that if needed & the tall backs are healthy?

Dusty was actually a gun forward early days, just lacked the tank. Got up to stupid things off the field, like hanging out with criminals and thought he deserved more money. Clubs knew he was a damn good player, but his off field antics scared them, GWS gave him a tour and knew it was a bluff.

Dusty and Hogan are completely different stories. Dusty, stupid antics and all, was still playing damn good footy. Hogans on field performances have been ok at best for two years straight.

Writing Hogan off? No
Can Hogan still be a good player? Yes
2018 good? Personally, I don't think so. Don't think he's gonna be A grade material anymore.

If he becomes a good, reliable, consistent B grade forward I'll be absolutely thrilled. He needs a massive off/pre season mentally and physically, but more so mentally because physical attributes have never been an issue

 

[sdfc]

Dusty was actually a gun forward early days, just lacked the tank. Got up to stupid things off the field, like hanging out with criminals and thought he deserved more money. Clubs knew he was a damn good player, but his off field antics scared them, GWS gave him a tour and knew it was a bluff.

Dusty and Hogan are completely different stories. Dusty, stupid antics and all, was still playing damn good footy. Hogans on field performances have been ok at best for two years straight.

Writing Hogan off? No
Can Hogan still be a good player? Yes
2018 good? Personally, I don't think so. Don't think he's gonna be A grade material anymore.

If he becomes a good, reliable, consistent B grade forward I'll be absolutely thrilled. He needs a massive off/pre season mentally and physically, but more so mentally because physical attributes have never been an issue

You might be right but I hope you're wrong. Hogan's last three years have been interrupted by injury, I'm just hoping that a full season brings out his best. If it does, a huge piece of the puzzle is in place.

 

[mike91]

You might be right but I hope you're wrong. Hogan's last three years have been interrupted by injury, I'm just hoping that a full season brings out his best. If it does, a huge piece of the puzzle is in place.

Oh trust me, I hope I'm wrong too mate

 

[Madas]

Me too
Because the problem we've got now is that no one is taking Hogan anyway .