List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I heard someone (but now forget who) say not to read too much into the families going up. A lot of them are planning to stay up the coast for their end of season so bringing their families up before returning to Melbourne.

This makes complete sense and lucky them, especially going into school holidays.. But what doesn't make sense is that Eddie is a 34yo & uncontracted and played 14 games, averaged 9 possessions, and under a goal a game. Has gone goaless in 6 games and hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in any game.. His performance simply doesnt warrant to play on next year and surely he would also acknowledge this..

The only possible thing that might make sense is that he will stay on in a coaching role, and we are prepared to give up a list spot to Eddie to ensure that his salary is included in the TPP and not the soft cap which we know is being reduced significantly..

 

[Kramer1]

But what doesn't make sense is that Eddie is a 34yo & uncontracted and played 14 games, averaged 9 possessions, and under a goal a game. Has gone goaless in 6 games and hasnt kicked more than 2 goals in any game.. His performance simply doesnt warrant to play on next year and surely he would also acknowledge this..

The only possible thing that might make sense is that he will stay on in a coaching role, and we are prepared to give up a list spot to Eddie to ensure that his salary is included in the TPP and not the soft cap which we know is being reduced significantly..

I don't know how statistically relevant this year will be in the scheme of things...less rounds, shortened quarters, typically very low scoring, tight turnarounds which obviously don't favour a veteran. Add in the dysfunction of the Carlton forward line.

His goal assist and tackle numbers are good, particularly in the context of the shortened format, and it's hard not to see him going better with every other week at the G or Etihad. Add the fact there still isn't a clear better option...

 

[El Topo]

I'll address it again because it needs to be said - this dichotomy of talented young player vs senior role player needs to end. Guys like Dow and LOB need to earn their way into the team, and in the few games they have played they've been disappointing - far moreso than Newman or Newnes have been in their worst games.

Teague has made mistakes this year, but the above is the big thing he's got right. The only reason we're yet to reap the rewards is lack of a seconds comp.

 

[Stamos]

Guys like Dow and LOB need to earn their way into the team, and in the few games they have played they've been disappointing - far moreso than Newman or Newnes have been in their worst games.

I wouldn't say they've been far more disappointing that Newman or Newnes' worst games. On par probably.

 

[Jeremias]

I posted earlier in the week that I thought Eddie's family entering the hub prior to this weekend's game was telling.

But we haven't heard anything and if we haven't heard anything official by now I reckon it's probably safe to say he'll be here next year and I'm fine with that.

Obviously he's not the player he once was, he's nowhere near it actually, but he's still capable of producing magic and he still makes opposition defences worry whenever he's in the area.

Goals are down but effort is still there and he has clearly made a difference, his defensive numbers from memory are very decent.

A lot of players lose their pace etc. when they get older but he's never really been someone who is overly reliant on pace. His smarts, skill and ability to make opponents worry around him are his trademarks and whilst his touch has let him down at times this year, those aspects of his game are still strong.

I can understand people wanting him to be moved on but for mine there's absolutely no reason why he can't play on again in 2021 and be of value.

 

[chunkylover53]

If he gets new footy boots that have proper studs then a lot of his problems will be solved.

He's no use when the forward line and its entries is dysfunctional and unpredictable. When our mids and forward are humming he has good games and still looks very dangerous.

He attracts a small defender and he's not really taking anyone's spot, so I'm completely fine with keeping him. If we rectify our issues next year I can see him having a better year than 2020.

 

[Stamos]

A lot of players lose their pace etc. when they get older but he's never really been someone who is overly reliant on pace. His smarts, skill and ability to make opponents worry around him are his trademarks and whilst his touch has let him down at times this year, those aspects of his game are still strong.

I can understand people wanting him to be moved on but for mine there's absolutely no reason why he can't play on again in 2021 and be of value.

I'll disagree with this. It's not just his lack of pace (and despite not being the quickest small forward, he has definitely relied on that pace and agility), but he can't even keep his feet, and he's fumbling.
He's managed a total of 3 goals and 5 assists in his last 8 games.

Sure, this might be a tougher year, but our 2021 season won't start for another 6 months. Do you really think he'll be contributing to a successful side on the field in a year's time?

 

[FRUMPY]

It is interesting that Betts has not announced his retirement, i think most of us expect him to be retired or at the very least not offered a new contract.. and the fact his family flew up for the last game of the season was a sign that he is playing his last game... I get giving Simpson some time, but would have thought it would be announced by now..

Only conclusion is that perhaps the club genuinely have not made up their minds, or Eddie is wanting to play on and will look at other clubs if we delist him.. I doubt anyone else will take him on, so would be a shame for him to go out like that.

families flew up 3 weeks ago, same time as the rest of the AFL hierarchy in order to do their 2 weeks quarantine. Had nothing to do with betts retirement.

Edit: just saw a few others had answere this.

 

[Kramer1]

I posted earlier in the week that I thought Eddie's family entering the hub prior to this weekend's game was telling.

But we haven't heard anything and if we haven't heard anything official by now I reckon it's probably safe to say he'll be here next year and I'm fine with that.

Obviously he's not the player he once was, he's nowhere near it actually, but he's still capable of producing magic and he still makes opposition defences worry whenever he's in the area.

Goals are down but effort is still there and he has clearly made a difference, his defensive numbers from memory are very decent.

A lot of players lose their pace etc. when they get older but he's never really been someone who is overly reliant on pace. His smarts, skill and ability to make opponents worry around him are his trademarks and whilst his touch has let him down at times this year, those aspects of his game are still strong.

I can understand people wanting him to be moved on but for mine there's absolutely no reason why he can't play on again in 2021 and be of value.

And while not all will like it, we have to weigh the off field benefits. He played a large part in getting Martin over the line, and may play a part with Williams. He offers leadership when we've just lost a couple of elder statesman, and I'm just not sure the membership could bear losing three favourites in the one year...

 

[Kramer1]

I'll disagree with this. It's not just his lack of pace (and despite not being the quickest small forward, he has definitely relied on that pace and agility), but he can't even keep his feet, and he's fumbling.
He's managed a total of 3 goals and 5 assists in his last 8 games.

So one less goal and one more assist than Papley...

 

[FRUMPY]

I'll disagree with this. It's not just his lack of pace (and despite not being the quickest small forward, he has definitely relied on that pace and agility), but he can't even keep his feet, and he's fumbling.
He's managed a total of 3 goals and 5 assists in his last 8 games.

Sure, this might be a tougher year, but our 2021 season won't start for another 6 months. Do you really think he'll be contributing to a successful side on the field in a year's time?

Yeah spot on. Spends half the game on all 4s.

Every game eddie is in the right spots but manages to fumble the ball. 4 years ago he would gobble the crumbs up and kick a goal. Now he is missing them - clear sign he is struggling with the pace. He also goes missing the 2nd half of games. His 1st qtrs are his best then dies out of the game.

Sure we may not have someone else as good as him but give blokes a chance. Go to the draft, give owings a 5 game block or someone else.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Interested in your thoughts on Cottrell, Jimmae.

He's not the most skilled player but what he makes up for in skill is dogged determination. He's the first obvious player that we've had with mongrel (Robbo style) since Mitch Robinson left. It's something that I feel that we've lacked.

Seems to be the ideal player you have sitting in the 23-35 ranked players on a list who can come in and play their role with grit.

What's the go? Have I missed something? I haven't read this forum much since July so if I have, please accept my apology.

Does he have mongrel?

Because all I've seen is an over the top goal celebration with some flexing and an angry face.

Never seen him fire up at an opponent, or bury them with a tackle and then let them know all about it, or fly the flag for a teammate who got some rough treatment. All the things that guys like Robbo actually do.

I've seen more genuine mongrel from Lochie O'Brien than I have from Cottrell, and LOB is regularly panned by people here as being too soft.

 

[Juddrockz]

It is interesting that Betts has not announced his retirement, i think most of us expect him to be retired or at the very least not offered a new contract.. and the fact his family flew up for the last game of the season was a sign that he is playing his last game... I get giving Simpson some time, but would have thought it would be announced by now..

Only conclusion is that perhaps the club genuinely have not made up their minds, or Eddie is wanting to play on and will look at other clubs if we delist him.. I doubt anyone else will take him on, so would be a shame for him to go out like that.

If Eddie was leaving,the club wouldve announced it way before the last game. He'll be playing 2021,i bet my last buck on it.
Both Carlton an Adelaide would need to allow more than a week for Eddie's retirement. He'll go out with all the bells an whistles when he hangs up his boots. He is player that is loved by all in the Afl.

 

[Jeremias]

I'll disagree with this. It's not just his lack of pace (and despite not being the quickest small forward, he has definitely relied on that pace and agility), but he can't even keep his feet, and he's fumbling.
He's managed a total of 3 goals and 5 assists in his last 8 games.

He hasn't really ever been overly reliant on his pace. His game has been based on pressure, touch and smarts.

Pace has a role to play of course but I don't see his game suffering too much for a lack of it.

Sure, this might be a tougher year, but our 2021 season won't start for another 6 months. Do you really think he'll be contributing to a successful side on the field in a year's time?

Yes. I absolutely think he can play a part in a successful 2021 season for the football club.

 

[Juddrockz]

If he gets new footy boots that have proper studs then a lot of his problems will be solved.

He's no use when the forward line and its entries is dysfunctional and unpredictable. When our mids and forward are humming he has good games and still looks very dangerous.

He attracts a small defender and he's not really taking anyone's spot, so I'm completely fine with keeping him. If we rectify our issues next year I can see him having a better year than 2020.

Get the Blues and Eddie playing on the MCG in 2021 in "normal" winter football conditions,with the faithful in tow and then see what they bring to the table. Currently teams preparing for finals are dunking the footballs in baby oil,soap,water to help adapt to conditions! Gives you a bit of an idea some of the conditions the clubs have been playing in.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Yeah spot on. Spends half the game on all 4s.

Every game eddie is in the right spots but manages to fumble the ball. 4 years ago he would gobble the crumbs up and kick a goal. Now he is missing them - clear sign he is struggling with the pace. He also goes missing the 2nd half of games. His 1st qtrs are his best then dies out of the game.

Sure we may not have someone else as good as him but give blokes a chance. Go to the draft, give owings a 5 game block or someone else.

Spot on and I have no doubt the slippery QLD conditions have not helped, but it cant account for it all. He is simply not the player he once was, he shows 1 or 2 glimpses each game to get us excited but this cant be enough to warrant giving a 34yo another year on our list.

If as I mentioned before he stays on in a mentoring / coaching role that is great, but we as a footy club need to move on and find a suitable long term replacement. If he is lining up in the fwd pocket against Richmond round 1 next year then we will have wasted another pre season.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

If Eddie was leaving,the club wouldve announced it way before the last game. He'll be playing 2021,i bet my last buck on it.
Both Carlton an Adelaide would need to allow more than a week for Eddie's retirement. He'll go out with all the bells an whistles when he hangs up his boots. He is player that is loved by all in the Afl.

I have no doubt Eddie wants to play on... But we as a club should not be allowing him to.. There are plenty of examples throughout footy where players with far better resumes than Eddie have been forced into retirement kicking and screaming and angry because they thought they had more to offer..

 

[HBF]

I think he could handle the role, just like a Dangerfield could(not making the comparison), but given his robust frame, speed and an appetite for the contest, he would be somewhat wasted in that role

I see him starting HB, then move into the middle, changing as a genuine forward threat

The kid has everything we want, speed, mongrel, above average footskills

Can you remember where you had him in your rankings prior to doing his knee?

 

[HBF]

Or we could do something out of the box and play Kemp the midfield prospect in the midfield

I think we can give him a year or so to find his feet without being at the coalface coming off his knee injury.

 

[bigm386]

I think we can give him a year or so to find his feet without being at the coalface coming off his knee injury.

Agree, admittedly as a junior he played everywhere it seemed to flourish as a midfielder.

Would be happy for him to spend a year in the 2s (Assuming some form of VFL or 2nd tier exists) building back up.

But I don't want to see him come into the AFL side and not play midfield, which seems to be our ongoing issue.

 

[FRUMPY]

Agree, admittedly as a junior he played everywhere it seemed to flourish as a midfielder.

Would be happy for him to spend a year in the 2s (Assuming some form of VFL or 2nd tier exists) building back up.

But I don't want to see him come into the AFL side and not play midfield, which seems to be our ongoing issue.

ideally with setterfield, walsh, cuningham and SPS getting more midfield minutes, along with a recruit or 2, there wont be a rush to get him in there

 

[Arr0w]

Can you remember where you had him in your rankings prior to doing his knee?

6 with or without the knee

List Mgmt. - Carlton's 2019 Draft Thread

Happy Draftmas, bitches!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Jimmae]

Interested in your thoughts on Cottrell, Jimmae.

He's not the most skilled player but what he makes up for in skill is dogged determination. He's the first obvious player that we've had with mongrel (Robbo style) since Mitch Robinson left. It's something that I feel that we've lacked.

Seems to be the ideal player you have sitting in the 23-35 ranked players on a list who can come in and play their role with grit.

What's the go? Have I missed something? I haven't read this forum much since July so if I have, please accept my apology.

Position play and foot skills are barely VFL standard, and haven't really improved. Looks angry but as others have pointed out he doesn't really attack the game that well, and regularly telegraphs what he is doing, which brings his opponent back into the game.

I don't care if he can run all day if he kills our ball movement (or worse) this much. The only way some of our selections of late have made sense to me is if Teague had already written the season off weeks ago and wanted to run a line through some people, because O'Brien looked the better selection after one game despite just the 7 disposals.

I mean it makes sense, except that we could have made the 8...

 

[La Dispute]

Position play and foot skills are barely VFL standard, and haven't really improved. Looks angry but as others have pointed out he doesn't really attack the game that well, and regularly telegraphs what he is doing, which brings his opponent back into the game.

I don't care if he can run all day if he kills our ball movement (or worse) this much. The only way some of our selections of late have made sense to me is if Teague had already written the season off weeks ago and wanted to run a line through some people, because O'Brien looked the better selection after one game despite just the 7 disposals.

I mean it makes sense, except that we could have made the 8...

Interesting contrast with LOB, but I'd say LOB's general nous have been as bad if not a whole lot worse on a situational basis. I'm actually astounded that a guy we've taken as a Top 10 pick with a couple of seasons under his belt can have as little awareness where to stand to cover, where to lead on transition, what kind of angles he needs to take when he's pressed up at a stoppage...

I get the criticisms of Cottrell, and I've largely said similar things, but the whole team is guilty of telegraphing plays and is something that needs to be addressed over the pre-season because if we don't have an obvious option sitting in the middle of the ground we've got no idea how to come up with an effective play. Perhaps Cottrell's read isn't great, but that could equally be a byproduct of our lack of imagination coming out of defence. If we can work on that over the off-season though, and get some more tailored instructions to LOB he can possibly become an effective player - otherwise he's being burned out from both sides.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Cottrell >>>>> LOB.