List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[BlueJet]

I never said that. Just your silly perception.
Nah, delisting 3 key defenders in one of season with no immediate plan to go into next season having others is just plain stupid no matter what weird perception you want to try to defend it with.

You noted keeping Goddard, BSOS or Macreadie and used their non-retention as means to swipe at our CEO. (talk about weird)
The recruiters may not have been overly keen on draftable prospects or inclined to offer terms to the available free agents, which is why I stated that it'd be better to judge them based on a larger sample size.
As has been stated - the club is missing Jones, Levi, Marchbank, McDonald and even McGovern at present as medium/tall defensive options, go through clubs across the comp and point out which clubs have depth that goes beyond that.

 

[footyfan1978]

You noted keeping Goddard, BSOS or Macreadie and used their non-retention as means to swipe at our CEO. (talk about weird)

Wrong again.

 

[Sector 7G]

Gov isn't a KPP of any nature

Cameron played a season at CHB with GWS. Stanley played KPD a number of years with the Saints, both are better options at a pinch than what Levi has done.

Most effective talls are ones that can play anywhere down the spine

I know but Gov played as a KPD for the Crows on H in 2018 so he is just as qualified as Cameron and Stanley to be nominated as a KPD.

Cameron averaged 1.6 goals a game or better (that was his first year) every season he has played and apart from last season has averaged over 2 per game. Not sure which season he played at CHB and managed to do this. He has only been a KPF at AFL level.

Stanley has been played everywhere over his history and shown to only be barely passable as a ruck. Being tried in the occasional game as a KPD nearly a decade ago doesn't make him KPD depth. Would be interesting to see how many games he played as a defender as he still kicked 6 goals in 18 games in 2013 when the Saints were terrible. Pretty sure he was paired with Reiwoldt up forward during this time until the lost patience with him

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

We brought in Oscar McDonald, a guy already tried key defense for a number of years at senior level, that seen to be not good there, as a supplemental selection pick for injuries. That is not a plan, that is an after thought in the new year when Charlie Curnow on inactive list. That is a part of the recognition that they have list out of balance after they delisted too many at once months before and then recognised we have with lack of talls when practice games started and his was used up forward, not key defense where he was a de-listed type. How that is miles ahead as a key defender is an odd assertion to guys still in their development years. The defence of them delisting three key defenders at once does not stack up for me at all. Just highlights how poorly it was done back on October and November.

As I see it, it was the right move getting rid of Goddard, Silvagni and Macreadie. None of them were up to it and wouldn't be helping us now. It was the wrong move not replacing them but the cupboard may have been bare in terms of viable prospects.

I like Oscar and hope he gets another contract.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Getting rid of Goddard, BSOS and Macreadie was fine. Not replacing them is the issue. As mentioned above McDonald was only an after thought.

 

[Doro]

Getting rid of Goddard, BSOS and Macreadie was fine. Not replacing them is the issue. As mentioned above McDonald was only an after thought.

Yep. Bad planning.

 

[BlueJet]

Wrong again.

No, delisting three key position players was just stupid unless you gained one or two for sure already.
Should have kept at least one of Macreadie or Ben Silvagni and backed developing them in next couple of years.
Highlights we been terrible at development in general and to change list managers and not have a real good plan of how we developing our key defence going forward is just poor list management in off season. Like Melbourne are doing with Petty and Swans with McCartin we should have been developing another key defender. Hugh Goddard was a bit older and probably seen enough of to see he going to be too slow for role going forward but should have gained one more in and kept one of Macreadie and Silvagni at minimum. To focus on loose half back flankers and try to turn them into a midfielder when we already got a zillion midfielders to develop just showed the change in list management was just dumb thinking. When you building a list and already had a list management plan you needed to follow through on, changing it when you only half way through that phase just seems plain stupid and was first time I sensed our CEO was out of his depth.

Might be time to sit this one out..

 

[footyfan1978]

Might be time to sit this one out..

You certainly should.

 

[footyfan1978]

As I see it, it was the right move getting rid of Goddard, Silvagni and Macreadie. None of them were up to it and wouldn't be helping us now. It was the wrong move not replacing them but the cupboard may have been bare in terms of viable prospects.

I like Oscar and hope he gets another contract.

Yes, the issue is removing three at once for key defence. They should have kept one and added another via trading. Not a back flanker they tried to turn into a midfielder for some very weird reason. Just so out of balance.

 

[footyfan1978]

I like Oscar and hope he gets another contract.

Hopefully he plays 3 or 4 games so we can see if there is anything there to work with. If he can turn into a Trent Hotton type it would be handy back up and versatility.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We brought in Oscar McDonald, a guy already tried key defense for a number of years at senior level, that seen to be not good there, as a supplemental selection pick for injuries. That is not a plan, that is an after thought in the new year when Charlie Curnow on inactive list. That is a part of the recognition that they have list out of balance after they delisted too many at once months before and then recognised we have with lack of talls when practice games started and his was used up forward, not key defense where he was a de-listed type. How that is miles ahead as a key defender is an odd assertion to guys still in their development years. The defence of them delisting three key defenders at once does not stack up for me at all. Just highlights how poorly it was done back on October and November.

He played some good footy early and has probably had more games in his first 6 years then Cuningham, SOJ, Kennedy, Curnow and McKay have. Unless we were trading something good we are only ever going to get someone of his ability. He isn’t like the three we delisted who had no runs on the board at all.
He as a fourth KPD is fine and not many clubs would have a lot better. Yes we need a fifth developing young KPD on our list but the club clearly didn’t rate anyone available. Maybe we should’ve reached instead of Carroll but I think I remember someone posting Cody Brand is the only KPD taken in the draft after our picks, including the rookie draft.
We would probably back in Marchbank or McGovern to be our 5 KPD over anyone else available.

i think people are also ignoring that anyone we chased would have been in the expectation that they wouldn’t be best 22. It’s pretty bloody hard to get anyone under those circumstances

 

[footyfan1978]

He played some good footy early and has probably had more games in his first 6 years then Cuningham, SOJ, Kennedy, Curnow and McKay have. Unless we were trading something good we are only ever going to get someone of his ability. He isn’t like the three we delisted who had no runs on the board at all.
He as a fourth KPD is fine and not many clubs would have a lot better. Yes we need a fifth developing young KPD on our list but the club clearly didn’t rate anyone available. Maybe we should’ve reached instead of Carroll but I think I remember someone posting Cody Brand is the only KPD taken in the draft after our picks, including the rookie draft.
We would probably back in Marchbank or McGovern to be our 5 KPD over anyone else available.

i think people are also ignoring that anyone we chased would have been in the expectation that they wouldn’t be best 22. It’s pretty bloody hard to get anyone under those circumstances

Did we actually look back in October or enquire? I do not believe we did.
Sounded like it was all about Saad and Williams but nothing about getting more key defenders which is just neglect of basic list management balance. It is a concern if this the type of neglect that can go on now. Hopefully learn from this mistakes or we going to have a lot of good work on building the list up from ground zero undone if it continues in other areas. At moment we left praying Marchbank finally gets right next year but still leaves us no developing key defender for if more injuries or Jones gone in a year or two. It makes me think they trying to fix their mistake by possibly getting Kemp to become a key defender.

 

[footyfan1978]

I know but Gov played as a KPD for the Crows on H in 2018 so he is just as qualified as Cameron and Stanley to be nominated as a KPD.

Cameron averaged 1.6 goals a game or better (that was his first year) every season he has played and apart from last season has averaged over 2 per game. Not sure which season he played at CHB and managed to do this. He has only been a KPF at AFL level.

Stanley has been played everywhere over his history and shown to only be barely passable as a ruck. Being tried in the occasional game as a KPD nearly a decade ago doesn't make him KPD depth. Would be interesting to see how many games he played as a defender as he still kicked 6 goals in 18 games in 2013 when the Saints were terrible. Pretty sure he was paired with Reiwoldt up forward during this time until the lost patience with him

Yeah, Stanley was never seen as a key defender. They tried to see if he could be a key forward, but as you said, lost patience with him. Geelong have made better use of him as someone that use in ruck when it suits them but he not a lock in their 22.

 

[Smegger]

Hopefully he plays 3 or 4 games so we can see if there is anything there to work with. If he can turn into a Trent Hotton type it would be handy back up and versatility.

Reckon he's already shown enough. Small sample but enough to keep as depth unless club finds a better (experienced) alternative.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Did we actually look back in October or enquire? I do not believe we did.
Sounded like it was all about Saad and Williams but nothing about getting more key defenders which is just neglect of basic list management balance. It is a concern if this the type of neglect that can go on now. Hopefully learn from this mistakes or we going to have a lot of good work on building the list up from ground zero undone if it continues in other areas. At moment we left praying Marchbank finally gets right next year but still leaves us no developing key defender for if more injuries or Jones gone in a year or two. It makes me think they trying to fix their mistake by possibly getting Kemp to become a key defender.

Who knows but we brought in Fogarty, Williams and Saad. (Also McDonald) Apparently had a big crack at Graham so I don’t think we would’ve just been sitting on our hands. Finding depth and players to develop the ability or on the output Goddard, BSOS and Macreadie had shown is easy. There are probably 30-40 players who have shown that quality who aren’t on AFL lists, we just thought they are too poor to be on the list. The problem is there was stuff all in the draft at our picks (as 1 was taken from the next ~40 picks) so it was hard to get one to develop.
there is no doubt there is pressure on them this season to find someone but I don’t think it was much of an issue this year. 4kpd’s, 3-4 third tall defenders on our list and having no one who we obviously overlooked in the draft is only a small issue in the grand scheme of things

 

[footyfan1978]

Reckon he's already shown enough. Small sample but enough to keep as depth unless club finds a better (experienced) alternative.

I think depth is all he has ever been seen as with Charlie out and Harry proppy in pre-season. Last moment desperation addition. Think I was at the Saints v Carlton practice game and he played mainly forward after Jack Silvagni got injured. For some reason I remember we were down key forward and ruck at one point and he had to do a bit of both.
Overall, what I saw, he does not look like much of a body player for a tall guy. Beggars could not be choosers at that point and it was either him or Moore added to cover the injuries up forward. Also had to come on round one as medical sub when Jack was out injured again. As the freshest player on the ground he got a couple of goals. All I came away convinced of was if he going to be back up, forward and desperation ruck chop out is it. Ideally we improve our depth in off season to not need him. But he could easily be a journeyman list filler for years for a number of clubs. Like Josh Walker and Shaun McKernan types.

 

[footyfan1978]

Who knows

Not our list management it seems.
Hope they get their shit together this off season and address the ruck and key defense depth, in particular. I am more forgiving of them with ruck division as Kruezer retiring was probably a year or two earlier than expected which left Pittonet to be number one ruck when he meant to be just a solid number 2 and project type to possibly develop more in time. Anyway, got Mirkov now so least got some long term options for ruck. Still might need an experienced ruck for a year or two before TDK or Pittonet more ready to ruck more.

 

[No1Suspect]

Not really a standout year for KPP, probably attainable in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Id seriously consider trying to trade up for Horne. Exactly the midfielder we need, does everything and has mongrel in spades!! Im sure theres KPDs we could trade future picks for? Ladhams definitely worth a look. 4 list changes Max. Keep the 2s competitive

 

[ctwenty1]

Not really a standout year for KPP, probably attainable in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Id seriously consider trying to trade up for Horne. Exactly the midfielder we need, does everything and has mongrel in spades!! Im sure theres KPDs we could trade future picks for? Ladhams definitely worth a look. 4 list changes Max. Keep the 2s competitive

Crows will take him before us

 

[DangerousD]

Not really a standout year for KPP, probably attainable in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Id seriously consider trying to trade up for Horne. Exactly the midfielder we need, does everything and has mongrel in spades!! Im sure theres KPDs we could trade future picks for? Ladhams definitely worth a look. 4 list changes Max. Keep the 2s competitive

Is there quality key forwards this year? Surely North are desperate for one, I was really surprised last year, that they chose a mid.

 

[Red_man2008]

Which of the following do we seriously consider adding to our list in 2022.

Dunstan


Cerra

Talia or Crouch

Hawks eye Docker; experienced Crows up for grabs

Matt Crouch and Daniel Talia will be allowed to walk from Adelaide if their free agency compensation is appropriate, while Fremantle’s Lachie Schultz is on Hawthorn’s radar.

amp.theage.com.au

 

[Gethelred]

Which of the following do we seriously consider adding to our list in 2022.

Dunstan


Cerra

Talia or Crouch

Hawks eye Docker; experienced Crows up for grabs

Matt Crouch and Daniel Talia will be allowed to walk from Adelaide if their free agency compensation is appropriate, while Fremantle’s Lachie Schultz is on Hawthorn’s radar.

amp.theage.com.au

...

At this point, I do not want us going for any more ready-made players.

Daniel Talia is 29. Matt Crouch is an upgrade on Kennedy, but - and this is the sticking point - he spends most of his time in the rehab group.

Cerra is the only one I'd go for, and you'd be paying for him at the peak of his value. Not at what he'd be asking, and not when we have such a shortage of talls on the list. We would be trading out of the first round to get him, and I'm genuinely not interested in obtaining a tall forward from later in the draft.

We need 2 KPD's, one forward/ruck, and one KPF. Only Talia satisfies that need, and he's more interested in his remuneration than he is who he plays for.

 

[DangerousD]

Which of the following do we seriously consider adding to our list in 2022.

Dunstan


Cerra

Talia or Crouch

Hawks eye Docker; experienced Crows up for grabs

Matt Crouch and Daniel Talia will be allowed to walk from Adelaide if their free agency compensation is appropriate, while Fremantle’s Lachie Schultz is on Hawthorn’s radar.

amp.theage.com.au

Id love Talia, if we thought he’d get on the park.

 

[Wickzki]

Would love to get Josh Rachele in this years draft. He sounds like a gun small forward. Apparently is the best kick in the draft. We've been lacking in this area, and will get worse once Murphy retires. He's a Carlton supporter and has already spent a week training with the club. Knightmare has him at 5 and Twomey at 7 in their current rankings, so most likely will be gone with our 1st pick, but would be a great replacement for Betts. Kicked 6 goal for Murray Bushrangers last week!!

I could dig that suckah

 

[agro]

Id love Talia, if we thought he’d get on the park.

We’re probably a little light in the permanent rehab group if Marchbank gets up next year so Talia might be a worthwhile replacement.