- Nov 27, 2016
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Pretty sure Parkes had surgery recently. Could be misremembering.
List Mgmt. 2021 List Management
- Thread starter The Old Dark Navy's
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- Sep 25, 2013
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Hope the club sticks with Boyd. Could be a natural replacement for Stocker when he eventually moves up the ground. Booming kick.
- Nov 27, 2016
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Charlie's is a talent. Marchbank is a talent. How is that going for us? Or maybe Fisher.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Question - Which would you choose?
Bailey Smith for First rounder and Liam Jones
or...
Adam Cerra for SPS/Fisher and our First rounder
Biggest dilemma we face is finding a good mid while also being able to hit the draft to sure up our KPP stocks.
Bailey Smith for First rounder and Liam Jones
or...
Adam Cerra for SPS/Fisher and our First rounder
Biggest dilemma we face is finding a good mid while also being able to hit the draft to sure up our KPP stocks.
- Sep 25, 2013
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We have enough currency for Cerra without giving up Fisher/SPS.
It is simpler than you think.POSITIONS AVAILABLE
Hopefully we manage to fill the below positions, that I think are available..
Either by current players stepping up or cherry picking in trade period..
FB LOCKDOWN DEFENDER FULL BACK JONES HB WILLIAMS WEITERING SAAD C PLOWMAN WALSH 2 WAY RUNNER HF FISHER DE KONING SPS FF OWIES MCKAY C.CURNOW FOL #1 RUCK CRIPPS STOCKER BENCH 7th DEFENDER 7th FORWARD MIDFIELDER INSIDE MIDFIELDER 2 WAY RUNNER =
ROLE CHANGES
JONES - 3rd tall intercepting defender (what he does best)
PLOWMAN - Winger, was drafted as a midfielder, elite disposal, has a tank, can run both ways and can help with defence..
DE KONING - #2nd ruck/CHF, don't want to burn him out as a sole ruckman.. Could become an elite Levi replacement..
STOCKER - About time we release him and see what he has got in the middle..
C.CURNOW - Coming off 2 years out of the game... FP 3rd tall position makes sense allows him to roam around, without taking the best defender..
Plowman - lockdown defender
Williams(fit) and Docherty split wing/HBF ……. Doc needs to own a more defensive mindset if it becomes a need.
Kemp - will be third tall (I. Would prefer some time forward, but not on the agenda currently)
Jones - plays key back until replacement steps up (could be as simple as fit OMac to play more stopper with multiple rebounders)
Newman and Williamson are both genuine AFL players and are in the mix.
Not convinced SPS has a role unless he McGovern, Williams and Dow spend off season in boot camp.
Dow on that bench, but must make major inroads to tank.
Fogarty has a role to play - cooked atm like a few others. Join the camp, right ethic will do willingly.
Carroll will be rotated in early days in ‘22. Want him trialled on a wing.
Martin needs a piece of that camp too, but mostly skills rejig, leaning/weight transfer back to kick, bad form. Best 22 lock
Ed Curnow has another year with workers around him and kids still developing
Fit Marchbank pushes Kemp up the ground
Cuningham has plenty of claims to best 22 if fit, Gibbons good enough, but see us moving past him, Honey more a hybrid player offers something different to the mix. Can’t help thinking he would suit a HBF
JSOS - absolutely in the mix for best 22
McGovern is the player I have the least time for. Ability unquestioned, work ethic unspeakable to date.
Kennedy is a class midfielder. Deliberately used lower case “c”. Has a role to play.
Philp is virtually untapped, hope he is using downtime appropriately and is ready to go.
Ramsay is a ball magnet, but light on, needs to hone his skills under pressure to command an audition at next level.
Durdin - very high hopes as a small pressure type with a touch of class. Needs a thorough grounding and some physical development. Time is on his side.
Newnes may be maintained for that solid, experienced back up. Crutch for Teagueys lack of creativity. Pressure for list spots, I have him gone.
O’Brien has the necessary skills, but seems to have difficulty putting it all together. Will not survive within the current regime, but there is a coach out there who can harness his assets.
Setterfield has me perplexed, definitely good enough. Currently non invested. We can surmise why, but would like to be certain of his reasons for disconnection.
Loved Eddie’s Indian Summer, and gave me some mixed thoughts, but it is time. Murph and Levi , no debate.
Other than balancing the list with developing and/or depth talls, our list is OK. A couple of immediate upgrades may be welcome, but we have sufficient pieces to play finals if players are better utilised and stay fit.
Not sure why people persist with suggesting Marchbank is a KPD, but let's including him for the exercise and compare them to Cats options. All players 193 or taller that can play back
Jones, Weitering, Levi, McDonald, Kemp, Marchbank
Stanley, Blicavs, Henderson, Kolodjashnij Cameron, Krueger, De Koning
Yes, only one extra, but it's still more depth
Quick question but possibly the wrong thread: who’s developing our players now that Power has taken over from Barker as mid coach?
Kemp will play round 1 2022.
Either Stocker or Williams (or both) will be fit and midfield ready round 1 2022.
TDK will be significantly more seasoned …….and Pitto will do his utmost to improve fitness and versatility.
Dow should have a greatly improved tank. If he doesn’t I would quit him as not sufficiently engaged.
Philp, Honey, Ramsay and maybe Durdin will be pushing hard for spots. Carroll probably ahead of the others on raw potential.
We need to improve our VFL list balance to enable the five above to be nurtured in multiple roles.
Charlie will be a spectacular staple again.
The greatest question remains over the fitness and focus of McGovern, Martin, SPS, and Williams, and more specifically their willingness to work for their own peak performance and the greater good.
Marchbank and Cuningham similarly have a huge bearing on our list balance, but will not lump them with the other four as they have greater work ethic. Fisher could be categorised with this group, but hoping his injuries are not ongoing.
Who won’t be here?
Betts, Murphy and Casboult should be certainties. We don’t have enough space to endulge another year for Eddie or us.
Calls for Ed Curnow‘s retirement are premature. His two way running still papers over cracks when played on ball. Unlike others, his work ethic and competitiveness on the track are an inspiration and example for his younger mates.
A little harsh to quit a solid citizen like Newnes, but we have untapped kids who can and will provide at least as much.
I have questions over Gibbons. He won’t be played in the middle, Owies, Fisher, Cuningham, Fogarty and Martin for mine are ahead of him already, with Honey, Durdin and some young midfielders currently untried as forwards (Ramsay, Philp, Carroll) having future claims. Zac Williams is also a quality forward if we choose to play him there.
O’Brien needs a very strong close to the season to ensure retention next year. I love the commitment and endeavour of Cottrell, but it his hard to see upside. Offers a workhorse role player taking up plenty of slack with two way running, but doesn’t get enough of it and not an overly smart or dependable user. Likewise Luke Parks has some redeeming qualities. His big loping stride is as much a curse as a positive. It restricts his agility and ability to impact with second efforts. Questions to answer as not tall enough for KPD. Unfortunately injuries have destroyed Jordan Boyd’s audition to the big time and hard to see him being retained.
I see calls to dump Oscar MacDonald as laughable given our dearth of key position types, on the proviso his back complaint is not chronic. The underperforming Setterfield and Petrevski-Seton are serious trade considerations and this poster would rejoice if our brain’s trust can attract a trade for lazy McGovern, even if we have to pay some salary. Barring a monumental shift in effort, I, for one, want him gone.
We could keep list changes fairly light, or we could be brutal and touch double figures (given we have to drop two rookies before we start, and find room to upgrade Owies. Arr0w and every other logical poster are also adding three “spine” players to the list). Up to 6 spots needed with that mix before we try to upgrade the mature midfielders, add role players or consider some decent father/sons.
Yet these are the key reasons why we aren't much good. Our path to the top 4 is replacing those who won't chase like Dow and can't kick like Ed. Watched Melbourne dismantle Port, they don't have poor effort or poor kicks like this, Port didn't either.
Original Moody Blue
Cancelled
- Nov 14, 2020
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You think we may have overpaid for Williams, Martin (add McGovern), but you are more concerned about Cripps? Wow..
We still have some glaring areas on our list that need attention, multiple KP depth & development both ends a RUCK/FWD replacement for CAS, more hardness run speed and skill across all lines...
More than likely there will possibly be a few surprises with delisting and trade outs...
1. M. Murphy - retired, club should make it an easy decision...
2. M. McGovern - recurring long term injuries, will he ever get a clear run? hope so but big doubts... still contracted...
3. E. Betts - retired, club forward and indigenous coaching welfare role...
4. C. Marchbank - ACL place probably onto rookie list, career chronic ongoing injuries, up against it? contracted...
5. J. Newnes - Ok depth player getting played before the kids, time to replace...
6. E. Curnow - been a great clubman & tagger, limited positionally, next wave should be preferred... probably retained..
7. O. McDonald - missed most year with back injury, unknown what impact this has on him being retained, replace...
8. L. Casboult - had a fantastic career his knee and body is looking shot, need to find a replacement...
L. O’Brien and W. Setterfield:
Like both kids they have some good traits but individualy although still young aren’t in ways doing themselves any favours with certain aspects of their games particularly defensively, unfortunately development for the reserves team has been hit with a huge amount of injuries impacting on the depth and quality, COVID has played a part as well over the past 2 seasons...
Owies: needs to be upgraded, although not a natural dangerous small forward on the ground and off packs, his progression this year particularly in a horribly organised forward line with terrible delivery into it has been a wonderful result for him and the club...
He has a great work ethic, chases and pressures well, he finds space well up the ground and doubling back, or presenting in the right areas for marks & shots on goal, he reads the ball in flight really well and is a fairly safe mark for his size...
If he can develop his ground level game which needs work atm, can get the ball reading off the packs he’ll take his game up another level with the natural progression with more games and experience...
My guess is possibly:
6/7 senior list changes...
2 X National draftees
1 x Rookie Upgrade (Owies)
3 x Trades in
1 x Rookie placement (Marchbank)
2 x Key position Denfenders and Forwards would be my top priority either draft or trade in...
Try and keep next years first rounder unless a very good player is available we need...
Our list needs a winger, a small defender and classy small/medium forwards as well over this and next year’s drafts and trade periods...
More than likely there will possibly be a few surprises with delisting and trade outs...
1. M. Murphy - retired, club should make it an easy decision...
2. M. McGovern - recurring long term injuries, will he ever get a clear run? hope so but big doubts... still contracted...
3. E. Betts - retired, club forward and indigenous coaching welfare role...
4. C. Marchbank - ACL place probably onto rookie list, career chronic ongoing injuries, up against it? contracted...
5. J. Newnes - Ok depth player getting played before the kids, time to replace...
6. E. Curnow - been a great clubman & tagger, limited positionally, next wave should be preferred... probably retained..
7. O. McDonald - missed most year with back injury, unknown what impact this has on him being retained, replace...
8. L. Casboult - had a fantastic career his knee and body is looking shot, need to find a replacement...
L. O’Brien and W. Setterfield:
Like both kids they have some good traits but individualy although still young aren’t in ways doing themselves any favours with certain aspects of their games particularly defensively, unfortunately development for the reserves team has been hit with a huge amount of injuries impacting on the depth and quality, COVID has played a part as well over the past 2 seasons...
Owies: needs to be upgraded, although not a natural dangerous small forward on the ground and off packs, his progression this year particularly in a horribly organised forward line with terrible delivery into it has been a wonderful result for him and the club...
He has a great work ethic, chases and pressures well, he finds space well up the ground and doubling back, or presenting in the right areas for marks & shots on goal, he reads the ball in flight really well and is a fairly safe mark for his size...
If he can develop his ground level game which needs work atm, can get the ball reading off the packs he’ll take his game up another level with the natural progression with more games and experience...
My guess is possibly:
6/7 senior list changes...
2 X National draftees
1 x Rookie Upgrade (Owies)
3 x Trades in
1 x Rookie placement (Marchbank)
2 x Key position Denfenders and Forwards would be my top priority either draft or trade in...
Try and keep next years first rounder unless a very good player is available we need...
Our list needs a winger, a small defender and classy small/medium forwards as well over this and next year’s drafts and trade periods...
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #3,214
Melbourne don’t have poor kicks?
Jordon, Langdon, Hunt are all poor kicks and that’s just 3 off the top of my head. There are others.
More likely is that you’re ignoring that to try and prove your point which is based on a fallacy.
There wouldn’t be a team in the history of the game that didn’t include a few who aren’t great by foot. It’s nice to think we might buck that trend but I’d suggest it’s not likely.
JustaBattler
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- May 31, 2012
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Has any player come back after an ACL and been a better player than what they were prior to injury?
I'm thinking of Marchbank | Cuningham as key examples of future expectation and we can perhaps add Kemp to this list
Charlie Curnow is definitely a fingers-crossed situation although not an ACL
Then you look at McGovern ( obviously a very serious Hamstring injury )
Martin - has not been the player he was last year with leg injuries
Williams - clearly lacks the run he had at GWS
Fisher - seems to be prone to lower leg injuries /ankle issues
Kennedy has never lived up to early promise since injuring his ankle(s)
Then you look at Cripps with his back injury this year and battered body - nowhere near the top5 mid in the game he used to be
Levi's knee looks like ending his season/career
Murphy is coming to the end of his days
Eddie age catches up with everyone
that is a lot of question marks and concern regarding sustainability and performance over a fair chunk of the recruited players on serious money and younger players who would like to see performing to their potential...
Lets be real here - not much luck with McGovern/Martin/Williams all brought in to add class to the list and yet absent/missing/underperforming and / or not 100% fit week in week out - big 'bets' looking fairly flakey - even McDonald brought in as a KPP spare - lasted 2 games before he broke down for the year.
and then looking at KPP depth - we have Pittonet and TDK as ruck options and some tall kid brought in as a long term project who got injured in the first 5 minutes of his VFL debut. There are no developing tall defenders and there is no back up for Harry and a maybe back and firing next year Charlie upfront - certainly no viable backup for Jones or Weietring.
Sure if everything goes perfectly well these players all get fit and stay fit next year after a pre-season and the Club isn't down to bare bones - even before the season starts that is a lot of things going right.
We have a VFL team called Carlton for the first time in decades and no KPP(ers) through the spine - none. Hardly an ideal environment to develop a full-ground game plan or young kids who need to be developed playing in a side which has the requisite positions covered.
I think the football department needs a bit of a wake-up call in draft and trade as much as coaching.
In my mind - there must be serious question marks hanging over the existing potential long-term effectiveness of far too many on the list - above and beyond the usual suspects that aren't performing - even though fit.
That is the go-forward equation that really troubles me.
I'm thinking of Marchbank | Cuningham as key examples of future expectation and we can perhaps add Kemp to this list
Charlie Curnow is definitely a fingers-crossed situation although not an ACL
Then you look at McGovern ( obviously a very serious Hamstring injury )
Martin - has not been the player he was last year with leg injuries
Williams - clearly lacks the run he had at GWS
Fisher - seems to be prone to lower leg injuries /ankle issues
Kennedy has never lived up to early promise since injuring his ankle(s)
Then you look at Cripps with his back injury this year and battered body - nowhere near the top5 mid in the game he used to be
Levi's knee looks like ending his season/career
Murphy is coming to the end of his days
Eddie age catches up with everyone
that is a lot of question marks and concern regarding sustainability and performance over a fair chunk of the recruited players on serious money and younger players who would like to see performing to their potential...
Lets be real here - not much luck with McGovern/Martin/Williams all brought in to add class to the list and yet absent/missing/underperforming and / or not 100% fit week in week out - big 'bets' looking fairly flakey - even McDonald brought in as a KPP spare - lasted 2 games before he broke down for the year.
and then looking at KPP depth - we have Pittonet and TDK as ruck options and some tall kid brought in as a long term project who got injured in the first 5 minutes of his VFL debut. There are no developing tall defenders and there is no back up for Harry and a maybe back and firing next year Charlie upfront - certainly no viable backup for Jones or Weietring.
Sure if everything goes perfectly well these players all get fit and stay fit next year after a pre-season and the Club isn't down to bare bones - even before the season starts that is a lot of things going right.
We have a VFL team called Carlton for the first time in decades and no KPP(ers) through the spine - none. Hardly an ideal environment to develop a full-ground game plan or young kids who need to be developed playing in a side which has the requisite positions covered.
I think the football department needs a bit of a wake-up call in draft and trade as much as coaching.
In my mind - there must be serious question marks hanging over the existing potential long-term effectiveness of far too many on the list - above and beyond the usual suspects that aren't performing - even though fit.
That is the go-forward equation that really troubles me.
No, delisting three key position players was just stupid unless you gained one or two for sure already.
Should have kept at least one of Macreadie or Ben Silvagni and backed developing them in next couple of years.
Highlights we been terrible at development in general and to change list managers and not have a real good plan of how we developing our key defence going forward is just poor list management in off season. Like Melbourne are doing with Petty and Swans with McCartin we should have been developing another key defender. Hugh Goddard was a bit older and probably seen enough of to see he going to be too slow for role going forward but should have gained one more in and kept one of Macreadie and Silvagni at minimum. To focus on loose half back flankers and try to turn them into a midfielder when we already got a zillion midfielders to develop just showed the change in list management was just dumb thinking. When you building a list and already had a list management plan you needed to follow through on, changing it when you only half way through that phase just seems plain stupid and was first time I sensed our CEO was out of his depth.
sweethoney
5 time premiership player
Petracca is going ok
JustaBattler
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Fingers crossed.
Abyss
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POSITIONS AVAILABLE
Hopefully we manage to fill the below positions, that I think are available..
Either by current players stepping up or cherry picking in trade period..
FB LOCKDOWN DEFENDER FULL BACK JONES HB WILLIAMS WEITERING SAAD C PLOWMAN WALSH 2 WAY RUNNER HF FISHER DE KONING SPS FF OWIES MCKAY C.CURNOW FOL #1 RUCK CRIPPS STOCKER BENCH 7th DEFENDER 7th FORWARD MIDFIELDER INSIDE MIDFIELDER 2 WAY RUNNER =
ROLE CHANGES
JONES - 3rd tall intercepting defender (what he does best)
PLOWMAN - Winger, was drafted as a midfielder, elite disposal, has a tank, can run both ways and can help with defence..
DE KONING - #2nd ruck/CHF, don't want to burn him out as a sole ruckman.. Could become an elite Levi replacement..
STOCKER - About time we release him and see what he has got in the middle..
C.CURNOW - Coming off 2 years out of the game... FP 3rd tall position makes sense allows him to roam around, without taking the best defender..
PLAYERS UNDER PRESSURE
RETIRE
Betts, Casboult, E.Curnow & Murphy
UNDER THE PUMP
Newman, SPS, Setterfield, O'Brien, Boyd, McDonald, Cottrell, Kennedy & Newnes
SAFE
Honey, Ramsey, Silvagni, Kemp, Pittonet & Owies
I quoted your post because you have it in bold, lockdown defender. A gritty, fast and agile small to hold position against the pacey forwards like Greene, Elliot, CCameron and Dangerfield types.
Doesnt matter if he cant kick just get it to our runners like Saad. Like a lockdown NFL cornerback. Most contenders will have one of these types that need containment of which we have struggled with. Which leads to the next modern trend in a 7ft forward. This is where the last match indicates to me how hard it will be to replace Casboult and down the track Jonesy.
So areas of need that some are going with are 2-3 ruck/forward/defenders.
At least 1 lockdown small defender. This is crucial, Simmo was good but even he would struggle with those opponents mentioned above.
I see plenty of small forwards, wing and midfield type players on our list, only needing continued development and injury prevention. The lack of endurance capability that seems to be amongst some of our smalls baffles me. Thats simply getting the miles covered during preseason (injury notwithstanding). That is just purely taking ownership of required fitness to perform.
Someone like Mcgovern is a bit different in this regard as he would need a greater strength & agility mix but the running players have no excuse.
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #3,222
Richo went just OK for 15 or so years after doing his.
I do not always read much of this thread as read too many stupid things in past, particularly last year as one poster in particular was all innuendo and no substance so avoided this thread like the plague but seems to be gone now so thread seems more readable now. Having visited a bit more in last week, this the most sensible and balanced post of the list I seen here in a long time. O'Brien and Setterfield have question marks. I lean towards keeping as rather keep a young guy on one more year than de-list a year too early and find them at another club two or three years later making a real career for themselves.
Agree with Ed Curnow too. Keep him for depth and been a great clubman. I do not blame him for them overusing him in centre square at expense of developing the youth midfield we drafted for. That coaching group mistake and not his. I think he very capable of still playing footy either helping develop guys in reserves, tagging the odd absolute gun in seniors or defensive forward or back pocket or just back up for injuries. He very capable guy and deserves to be retained for pure culture reasons alone but if he retired himself would be ok with too.
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In regards to ACL it simply a case of fingers crossed. Some guys seem to be able to still get back and make a career for themselves, but overall it not a straight forward injury like many where you simply recover and continue on like everything is exactly the same as before. If you are so brilliantly skilled you can compensate for where the difference in your knee joint is post surgery and recovery is, all kudos to you for your rehab discipline and mental focus but it not easy for any athlete and more find it tougher to overcome than the few that play on to the onlookers like nothing changed. The good thing is, with his brother Ed and family culture, Charlie probably more likely to still have a good career than shadow of himself like some have sadly been.
