List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I absolutely referenced the stats that matter - THE POINT of this discussion is that he is at BEST a very mediocre scrorer so like other smaller forwards who don't score highly he has to make it up around the ground - thats just a fact - in more than half his games he has scored 1 goal or zero - thats pathetic. It really is.

So I presented his stats from around the ground - and they are totally sh*t.

You just can't handle that fact so select one borderline irrelevant point from my post and attacked that rather than the overall body of evidence - with ZERO counter argument.

He is crap - the stats prove that - and if you have something to offer lets have it.

He has kicked 60% more goals then our third goal kicker. More then our 3rd and 4th forwards combined.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

I rate him as mediocre, I neither like or dislike him. Do a best 22 on here and he's going to be in half, if that of people's teams, is he in your best 22? Is what it is. We're jack of players consistently missing very gettable goals, he's one of the main offenders. Can't just bury your head in the sand while that remains one of the biggest reasons for many of our losses. He might make better than mediocre.

Fogart is an average player at the moment - he is Bentick Mk 2.

For a fair while there was a discussion on who should take a spot on the list between Bentick and Carazzo -

These types of mid/forwards are fairly common and unless he really steps up he needs to be moved on. Is not displaying any serious weapons and comes across as a space clogger at the moment.

Definitely in the firing line but would keep on the list for one more year . Carroll, Kemp, Durdin, Ramsay, Honey etc midfielders/forward players

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

He has kicked 60% more goals then our third goal kicker. More then our 3rd and 4th forwards combined.

Thats because no other smalls have been getting a game. Thats the point mate - thats exactly the point. He takes their spot.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Thats because no other smalls have been getting a game. Thats the point mate - thats exactly the point. He takes their spot.

Betts 16, Owies 13, Fogarty 15, Gibbons 11. Fish plays there too and picked whenever fit.

 

[Arr0w]

Thats because no other smalls have been getting a game. Thats the point mate - thats exactly the point. He takes their spot.

Fine if you want to move on from Betts to prepare for when we are a contender but stop using stats to justify why Betts should be replaced.

It's like there is only one small forward position and he is holding out any other small forward option considering there are a number of similar types that are either in the side or rotated in and out of the side

 

[gbatman]

Fogart is an average player at the moment - he is Bentick Mk 2.

For a fair while there was a discussion on who should take a spot on the list between Bentick and Carazzo -

These types of mid/forwards are fairly common and unless he really steps up he needs to be moved on. Is not displaying any serious weapons and comes across as a space clogger at the moment.

Definitely in the firing line but would keep on the list for one more year . Carroll, Kemp, Durdin, Ramsay, Honey etc midfielders/forward players

Yep, it's a position we haven't really got genuine class and quality in. They need to be dangerous forward and in the middle, quick, willing to apply the heat and make the most of their opportunity, for example be really good kicks. All our blokes do some of those things well and some of those things poorly, we are extremely mediocre on the half forward line.

Fogarty can do some things pretty well, his kicking is terrible, kicking is very very high priority for this role. You have to be able to kick goals and hit up leading forwards, if you can't you aren't a part of a strong team's future, especially at half forward.

Maybe he makes a midfielder of himself, maybe he gets his kicking right, until he does it's all based on potential and maybes.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yep, it's a position we haven't really got genuine class and quality in. They need to be dangerous forward and in the middle, quick, willing to apply the heat and make the most of their opportunity, for example be really good kicks. All our blokes do some of those things well and some of those things poorly, we are extremely mediocre on the half forward line.

Fogarty can do some things pretty well, his kicking is terrible, kicking is very very high priority for this role. You have to be able to kick goals and hit up leading forwards, if you can't you aren't a part of a strong team's future, especially at half forward.

Maybe he makes a midfielder of himself, maybe he gets his kicking right, until he does it's all based on potential and maybes.

SPS! hope we don't lose him

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I've seen a few arguments on here against players like Setterfield and Fogarty being on the chopping block. I think if the list was in good shape they might not be, but it's pretty clear we need to cut some midfielders and small forwards to make way for key position players.

When you head into a game with Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

as the lone tall forward, who then can't even play there because he has to ruck all game, it's clear there's some issues with the list. Don't have anyone able to fill in if either Weitering or Jones go down either

 

[Beyond Blue]

I've seen a few arguments on here against players like Setterfield and Fogarty being on the chopping block. I think if the list was in good shape they might not be, but it's pretty clear we need to cut some midfielders and small forwards to make way for key position players.

When you head into a game with Jack Silvagni as the lone tall forward, who then can't even play there because he has to ruck all game, it's clear there's some issues with the list. Don't have anyone able to fill in if either Weitering or Jones go down either

I thought the list Sos had put together looked pretty good, sure some players he's drafted and traded have been underwhelming (Samo, Setters, Pittonet etc) but I could see the semblance of a strategy.

In the short time since Austin and Agresta have taken the reins its gone backwards, with some really questionable decisions including:
- Recruiting someone like Fogarty and drafting Carroll should not have been a priority when we have so many similar types
- The decision to delist 3 KPPs at the end of last year and not replace them with like for like was a shocker, this despite the historical fitness issues with Charlie, Marchbank and Gov (remember Oscar only came in once Charlie went down)
- Trading for Saad (whilst I like him) wasn't a massive priority, and costing us a high first rounder was a mistake (we could have possibly got Reid with that pick who as a young KPD is exactly what we need) when a crafty operator would have split the pick into 2 late first rounders to take the negotiation away from Essendon
- Signing Williams on an A Grade midfield contract when he didn't have the fitness base to fulfill the role

I'm almost positive that this will come out of the review and for me it raises big questions about Austin and Agresta.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I thought the list Sos had put together looked pretty good, sure some players he's drafted and traded have been underwhelming (Samo, Setters, Pittonet etc) but I could see the semblance of a strategy.

In the short time since Austin and Agresta have taken the reins its gone backwards, with some really questionable decisions including:
- Recruiting someone like Fogarty and drafting Carroll should not have been a priority when we have so many similar types
- The decision to delist 3 KPPs at the end of last year and not replace them with like for like was a shocker, this despite the historical fitness issues with Charlie, Marchbank and Gov (remember Oscar only came in once Charlie went down)
- Trading for Saad (whilst I like him) wasn't a massive priority, and costing us a high first rounder was a mistake (we could have possibly got Reid with that pick who as a young KPD is exactly what we need) when a crafty operator would have split the pick into 2 late first rounders to take the negotiation away from Essendon
- Signing Williams on an A Grade midfield contract when he didn't have the fitness base to fulfill the role

I'm almost positive that this will come out of the review and for me it raises big questions about Austin and Agresta.

Literally every area of the ground is two injuries away from disaster.
TDK and Pitto in the Ruck
Walsh and Cripps in the midfield
Weitering and Jones in the backline
Curnow and Harry in the forward line.

This is why I would keep OMac and hopefully get a Brander, Ballenden, Krueger, Riccardi type who can hopefully give us some cover at both ends.

Williams not making it as a mid hopefully won’t affect us at all if say Dow and Stocker can become very good midfielders and I guess that was one of the most appealing things about him. He can actually play somewhere else.

 

[RoyalParade]

I thought the list Sos had put together looked pretty good, sure some players he's drafted and traded have been underwhelming (Samo, Setters, Pittonet etc) but I could see the semblance of a strategy.

In the short time since Austin and Agresta have taken the reins its gone backwards, with some really questionable decisions including:
- Recruiting someone like Fogarty and drafting Carroll should not have been a priority when we have so many similar types
- The decision to delist 3 KPPs at the end of last year and not replace them with like for like was a shocker, this despite the historical fitness issues with Charlie, Marchbank and Gov (remember Oscar only came in once Charlie went down)
- Trading for Saad (whilst I like him) wasn't a massive priority, and costing us a high first rounder was a mistake (we could have possibly got Reid with that pick who as a young KPD is exactly what we need) when a crafty operator would have split the pick into 2 late first rounders to take the negotiation away from Essendon
- Signing Williams on an A Grade midfield contract when he didn't have the fitness base to fulfill the role

I'm almost positive that this will come out of the review and for me it raises big questions about Austin and Agresta.

More likely big questions of liddle and lloyd.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Dylan Stephens

15

Dylan Stephens

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

anyone?
With Sydney under salary cap pressure and this kid being out of contract.
I think we could persuade him to come to us, we could quite possibly be able to get him for a second rounder.
We need a wingman with pace I think Dylan is the perfect player for us and hope we are talking to his management.

 

[ray8182]

I thought the list Sos had put together looked pretty good, sure some players he's drafted and traded have been underwhelming (Samo, Setters, Pittonet etc) but I could see the semblance of a strategy.

In the short time since Austin and Agresta have taken the reins its gone backwards, with some really questionable decisions including:
- Recruiting someone like Fogarty and drafting Carroll should not have been a priority when we have so many similar types
- The decision to delist 3 KPPs at the end of last year and not replace them with like for like was a shocker, this despite the historical fitness issues with Charlie, Marchbank and Gov (remember Oscar only came in once Charlie went down)
- Trading for Saad (whilst I like him) wasn't a massive priority, and costing us a high first rounder was a mistake (we could have possibly got Reid with that pick who as a young KPD is exactly what we need) when a crafty operator would have split the pick into 2 late first rounders to take the negotiation away from Essendon
- Signing Williams on an A Grade midfield contract when he didn't have the fitness base to fulfill the role

I'm almost positive that this will come out of the review and for me it raises big questions about Austin and Agresta.

I’m a bit concerned with the list management decisions as well. My thinking is fairly similar.

-Don’t have a big problem with Fogarty and Carroll. The Fogarty trade looked good early but now looks ordinary. Can he recapture form. He is pretty similar to gibbons though.

-Carroll looks like an excellent selection in the 30’s. I would praise this selection. Just looks quality. Could be played in many positions.

-key defenders list management has been odd.

-over payed for Saad in terms of draft capital. Worth a late first round pick but we were too desperate. Although l think he’s been good we missed out on some talented young players in that draft who will be playing good footy for a long time after Saad retires.

-over payed in terms of dollars for Williams. Big 6 year deal for guy who has never had great endurance and also has history of soft tissue injuries. Has one right now. Hope size of contract doesn’t hurt us managing other contracts or limit other acquisitions.

My biggest problem is the desperation in acquiring Saad and Williams. We were basically willing to pay anything to get them and we did. Saad and Williams were not the be all and end all. Got to be able to walk away. Makes the list manager look immature and lacking experience.





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[ray8182]

Ed needs to be moved on as well. If he is not being used in a tagging role he is a very mediocre mid-fielder.

We have so many holes its not funny.

Ed’s disposal kills momentum. He has no second position because of his kicking so has to play midfield where He’s taking minutes from other players who have far more upside.


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[gbatman]

SPS! hope we don't lose him

Hopefully he develops his game more, was being played a lot at half forward before he was dropped so he will need to really improve. IMO we probably need to hit the draft again in this area.

Half forward line we have Charlie Curnow who looms as a gun CHF. We get glimpses from Martin but not consistency. Owies has had his moments but hasn't grasped it and may not have the elite pace and long range accuracy to go next level, Gibbons has put in some good efforts but isn't an elite kick, Silvagni performs well at half forward but isn't that quick hard running smaller type, terrific footy IQ though, Fogarty has had his moments but finishing really lets him down, Carroll may find himself developing there next season, Fisher hasn't been consistent there, Cuningham has had his moments but is injured and probably failed to bring the required levels of pressure, Durdin is developing, Honey showing some good potential despite some wayward kicking at times.

We have guys who appear ok, we have got our CHF back who is working his way back into form, if we could add an elite small half forward who kicks really well, has pace, hardness and applies good pressure then that's a big step forward for us. We have plenty who are nearly there but not quite, either way we have to keep a focus on this area. Hate to say it but someone like Papley would be terrific.

 

[gbatman]

Ed’s disposal kills momentum. He has no second position because of his kicking so has to play midfield where He’s taking minutes from other players who have far more upside.


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Would love SPS to pull his finger out and really get going and take his spot. Massive kicking upgrade but Ed is one hell of a competitor and tough bastard. I am willing to bet he offers a lot of voice on the field as well, not easy to replace but we need to.

 

[footyfan1978]

When you head into a game with Jack Silvagni as the lone tall forward, who then can't even play there because he has to ruck all game, it's clear there's some issues with the list. Don't have anyone able to fill in if either Weitering or Jones go down either

Yep, absolute nuts.
Does not take long to **** up a good list foundation if the wrong people are making decisions.
Hopefully this next off season, there is a wake up call to get in back in balance.

 

[gbatman]

I’m a bit concerned with the list management decisions as well. My thinking is fairly similar.

-Don’t have a big problem with Fogarty and Carroll. The Fogarty trade looked good early but now looks ordinary. Can he recapture form. He is pretty similar to gibbons though.

-Carroll looks like an excellent selection in the 30’s. I would praise this selection. Just looks quality. Could be played in many positions.

-key defenders list management has been odd.

-over payed for Saad in terms of draft capital. Worth a late first round pick but we were too desperate. Although l think he’s been good we missed out on some talented young players in that draft who will be playing good footy for a long time after Saad retires.

-over payed in terms of dollars for Williams. Big 6 year deal for guy who has never had great endurance and also has history of soft tissue injuries. Has one right now. Hope size of contract doesn’t hurt us managing other contracts or limit other acquisitions.

My biggest problem is the desperation in acquiring Saad and Williams. We were basically willing to pay anything to get them and we did. Saad and Williams were not the be all and end all. Got to be able to walk away. Makes the list manager look immature and lacking experience.





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Marchbank, McDonald, Casboult, McGovern and Parks. All can play key defender or second tall defender. All have been mostly injured apart from Parks. Weitering and Jones are very durable. You would have looked at that group before knowing about them missing most of the season and thought our backup key defender depth was fine and it was. Terrible run of injuries. In saying that a young tall defender may be on the cards for the long term.

Overpaid for Williams, Saad a little however both have plenty of good footy left and are elite defenders and sure up our defence for years.

Things aren't as bad as it looks. Would be terrific if Marchbank got his game back together and became that Jones replacement we will be looking for in a few years time. Has the talent to be a top line CHB.

 

[Blue Pride]

Dylan Stephens anyone?
With Sydney under salary cap pressure and this kid being out of contract.
I think we could persuade him to come to us, we could quite possibly be able to get him for a second rounder.
We need a wingman with pace I think Dylan is the perfect player for us and hope we are talking to his management.

I like it, although I’d try and get him for a pick in next years draft

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Betts 16, Owies 13, Fogarty 15, Gibbons 11. Fish plays there too and picked whenever fit.

Come one mate - I making a clear point, there is not point in just responding with a random list of names - AGAIN - Betts is a "stay at home" forward - none of these blokes are except Owies.

All of those you have put up slaughter Betts around the ground - if you think Betts is doing more around the ground that Fogarty, Gibbo or Fish then spare me.

Thats got to be a joke right?

Even with Owies - Betts has had one exceptional game which took his average up to 1.5 - outside of that his average would have been the same as Owies.

He just does not do anywhere NEAR enough to be in the team - and the one who he comes close to Owies - I also think shoud not be in the team, NOR SHOULD FOGARTY.

You have just compared him to two players - who should also not be in the team.


Just to add to this - the best game we have played all year - with a decimated forward line - Honey, no Betts. Speaks volumes.

The difference between these two is just night and day.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Marchbank, McDonald, Casboult, McGovern and Parks. All can play key defender or second tall defender. All have been mostly injured apart from Parks. Weitering and Jones are very durable. You would have looked at that group before knowing about them missing most of the season and thought out backup key defender depth was fine and it was. Terrible run of injuries. In saying that a young tall defender may be on the cards for the long term.

Overpaid for Williams, Saad a little however both have plenty of good footy and are elite defenders and sure up our defence for years.

Things aren't as bad as it looks. Would be terrific if Marchbank got his game back together and became that Jones replacement we will be looking for in a few years time. Has the talent to be a top line CHB.

Shai just got $600k - that makes us look pretty silly.

Saad was a great pick up, but for a lot less - Zac - $400 roughly.

We need to start looking at these spots though for sure.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

Ed’s disposal kills momentum. He has no second position because of his kicking so has to play midfield where He’s taking minutes from other players who have far more upside.


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Yeah - agree on all of this. I think his disposal has picked up a bit.

Ed has the Walker problem of always being under extreme pressure by trying to break through lines so has rushed kicks which make him look bad. Outside players always look like better kicks. EMU had the same problem.

Best kick at full speed under pressure was Ryan Houlihan, Bradley, that ex-skipper from Pies was bloody good too, and his replacement.

Ed is GENUINELY one of the few older guys who the kids can learn from - stoppage, tagger, endurance and quality of personality, etc.

Real tough - would LOVE to see him nurture the kids coming through his dad was a great teacher of mine.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Come one mate - I making a clear point, there is not point in just responding with a random list of names - AGAIN - Betts is a "stay at home" forward - none of these blokes are except Owies.

All of those you have put up slaughter Betts around the ground - if you think Betts is doing more around the ground that Fogarty, Gibbo or Fish then spare me.

Thats got to be a joke right?

Even with Owies - Betts has had one exceptional game which took his average up to 1.5 - outside of that his average would have been the same as Owies.

He just does not do anywhere NEAR enough to be in the team - and the one who he comes close to Owies - I also think shoud not be in the team, NOR SHOULD FOGARTY.

You have just compared him to two players - who should also not be in the team.


Just to add to this - the best game we have played all year - with a decimated forward line - Honey, no Betts. Speaks volumes.

The difference between these two is just night and day.

Haha you’re the one saying he is keeping players out. Clearly he hasn’t as you can see by the games these guys have played and he has been better then. Betts slaughters all of them with scoring so I’m not sure what your point is.

 

[thylacine60]

no-one is..........ever

 

[BigFrizz36]

Haha you’re the one saying he is keeping players out. Clearly he hasn’t as you can see by the games these guys have played and he has been better then. Betts slaughters all of them with scoring so I’m not sure what your point is.

His point is that however stupid and implausible the things that he says are they must be true.

He's been banging on about Eddie for a while now. Last I checked Eddie had scored the 6th highest amount of goals as a small forward in the comp. He also bangs on about a stat where Eddie isn't in the top 75 in the comp - it's actually the amount of marks that he's taken compared to all forwards, including key position players. Sadly this has no relevance to his overall performance.

Suspect that your not going to change his mind either despite the fact that you are correct. That pretty much sums it all up.