List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Elmer_Hauser]

Have a feeling LOB will ask for a trade at the end of the season (even assuming Teague goes)

Probably better for him to get a fresh start elsewhere

 

[Stamos]

Retire - Murphy, Betts, Levi, Ed
Retire/delist - Newnes, Newman
Question marks - Boyd, Gibbons, Mcdonald, Marchbank

There's your 8 changes.

Best case scenario we can make changes to the Football Department quickly so some of the young talent doesn't walk.
Reset the culture of the Football Department.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Thank god some posters are not list managers with these sweeping changes, you cannot gut a list like many want.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

I’d rather we keep the Dow’s, O’Brien, sps ect and get proper development personnel in and around them so they have a better chance at succeeding with us, over watching them go on and make it with another team! Makes me bloody nervous

 

[Stamos]

Thank god some posters are not list managers with these sweeping changes, you cannot gut a list like many want.

Have to hope we can keep them.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I’d rather we keep the Dow’s, O’Brien, sps ect and get proper development personnel in and around them so they have a better chance at succeeding with us, over watching them go on and make it with another team! Makes me bloody nervous

I think it's naive to assume that these players will automatically become better players under a new coach, esp SPS, who has played for 2 already. At some point, you have to draw a line and admit we got these picks and or their development wrong.

Happy to keep Dow, but firmly believe 1 if not both of SPS and LOB will go.

I cannot see LOB ever reaching the heights expected of a 1st round draft pick, and SPS probably needs a fresh start at Freo.

Can add Fisher to the trading shopping list. Bring in as many good draft picks in and go from there.

Would like more kids in, esp zippy/pacey midfield types.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

I think it's naive to assume that these players will automatically become better players under a new coach, esp SPS, who has played for 2 already. At some point, you have to draw a line and admit we got these picks and or their development wrong.

Happy to keep Dow, but firmly believe 1 if not both of SPS and LOB will go.

I cannot see LOB ever reaching the heights expected of a 1st round draft pick, and SPS probably needs a fresh start at Freo.

Can add Fisher to the trading shopping list. Bring in as many good draft picks in and go from there.

Would like more kids in, esp zippy/pacey midfield types.

Yeah I get what your saying, sps has had plenty of opportunity but I believe he’s been played out of position and hasn’t been given enough time in his preferred mid position. Dow hasn’t really had a lot of continuity until this year and was played out of position at times as well. O’Brien has the tools and may prosper under better development coaching. But yeah I’d like to see them next year under a new regime.

 

[Jeremias]

It's not wrong, your example was poor, you compared a player who is 50/50 with one who is far worse. You are aware Fogarty's goal kicking accuracy is 30% aren't you? Give me examples of good forwards who have played in premierships that bad and I'll buy you a coke.

He wasn't terrific! He was ok to good. He's been dropped and not recalled after a good VFL game and a spot open in the best 22. Can't have been going that well if he wasn't selected after that. It's clear the 0.3 in the VFL was an issue for selection, coaches don't want someone kicking 0.3 in the seniors. Sorry you lost me with SEN, sensational nonsense.

If's and buts, he didn't kick badly, it's irrelevant. Honey has kicked accurately so far, he is kicking at an acceptable level, Fogarty has not. He needs to get that right. If honey's kicking accuracy was 30% i would be suggesting that, clearly but it isn't, it's much better so there really is no point bringing it up.

He was contracted and wanted out because he wasn't going to get a game with Geelong but was going to get a game with Carlton who are much weaker, especially at half forward. Yes we have lower standards. Geelong didn't rate him, they let a contracted player go for bugger all in return. Geelong do not let players go they want/rate. Says enough I think.

I have not got overly critical of Dow, I have been accurately critical of Dow. His kicking has been terrible, I have criticised that because it was. This season it has become improved to being on par with AFL standards which I have commented on consistently. His chasing is still poor but is improved, he's probably been the worst pressure player in the game for a while and for the modern game that is no good. Dow would have never played a game in a top 4 side, he'd be miles away. However I have never said he won't make it, I have said he could probably become a decent midfielder. I have suggested we should explore a trade but only if we are to win that trade. Never said he's not going to make it. Again, not overly critical, just accurate. Go through as many posts as you want you wont find me saying he's not going to make it. I don't think he's going to be a real top level player but he may become a reasonable player but if he's going to win a premiership with this team, that means he is going to be a key part of it and that means he needs to lift in some areas. He's well off the pace currently, we saw that in today's game.

I take the qualities that every player in a team has to have for that team to win a premiership and apply those to all players. I take the qualities players have to have relating to their position to win a premiership. If the player doesn't have those qualities then they are extremely unlikely to be a part of a premiership team. I then go on the likelihood that those players will develop those qualities or not. It really is quite simple and before you say it, yes it does work like that.

You have some strange idea that because I am criticising a player I am writing them off, I'm not, I'm stating a fact that that player must develop those abilities or they will not make it and by make it, be a part of our next premiership. Sometimes those players develop and they do make it and sometimes they don't.

Going back to Fogarty, his kicking has not improved at all, he's one of the worst shots on goal in the league, he has a lot of good qualities but kicking at 30% accuracy, being able to finish as a forward is a non negotiable when it comes to becoming a premiership forward. 50% is ok if you are elite in other areas but he's not and not that good at this stage. Same with Dow, being poor defensively, you just don't win premiership if you are poor defensively, he either improves or he's not going to make it. I'm not saying these players will or he won't improve or they will or won't make it but I guarantee if these areas don't improve then they aren't going to make it. Maybe Fogarty makes it as a midfielder but you have to keep him away from goals.

Gee if anyone could be really poor over a whole heap of areas, particularly ones relating to their roles we could bring in a whole heap of blokes off the street and win a flag. You are grossly underestimating how difficult it is to win a flag and how good you have to be to do it. You aren't going to get near it if you have a whole heap of blokes running around deficient in areas that are non-negotiables related to playing in a premiership team and playing their role in a premiership team and we are nowhere near it.

Players who are fit but playing reserves aren't rated. I show an example to the contrary....nah that doesn't count.

Forwards who aren't accurate in front of goals can't have long or successful careers. I show an example to the contrary...nah that doesn't count.

Fogarty wasn't actually good early in the year and nobody outside of Carlton thought so either. I show an example to the contrary...nah that doesn't count.

I don't pick one aspect of a player's game and write them off for it. I show an example to the contrary...nah that doesn't count.

There's simply no point discussing this further. You've been called out yet time and time again you change your arguments to try and find a way around it. Not sure who you're trying to convince but reckon it's only working on yourself.

Maybe try talking in front of a mirror next time instead?

I'm out.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Buntine, WHE, Haynes Tomlinson, Sumner, Greene, Adams, Smith, Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman, Corr, Jaksch, Boyd, Kelly, McCarthy, Pickett, Marchbank, Ahern.
1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,6,7,7,9,10,11,12,13,14,14,14

These are SOS’s picks at GWS, for one reason or another looking at this list there are probably 6 vital players he picked. Cogs, Haynes, Whitfield, Adams, Greene and Kelly.
A few handy types and a hell of a lot of guys not playing atm.
That’s from 22 first rounders with the vast majority being absolute top end picks. (the type you wouldn’t trade two later first rounders for)
Development could be a problem but I’m not really backing in our cattle either. ATM I think we will end up with a better strike rate then GWS did.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Can add Fisher to the trading shopping list. Bring in as many good draft picks in and go from there.

Would like more kids in, esp zippy/pacey midfield types.

You want to trade Fisher for picks and bring in a zippy midfield type?

How about we play our zippy midfield type in the midfield? The place where we most need a zippy type?

This club is crazy.

 

[Arr0w]

Have to hope we can keep them.

Give it a rest

 

[Jimmyonesix]

You want to trade Fisher for picks and bring in a zippy midfield type?

How about we play our zippy midfield type in the midfield? The place where we most need a zippy type?

This club is crazy.

You think he is physically equipped to play midfield full time - also very one sided without out much penetration -- I have my reservations on him playing full time in midfield
Our midfield has let us down all year if Fischer was the answer he would be there by now ..
Like all our midfielder bar cripps and Walsh he is only depth

 

[BigFrizz36]

You think he is physically equipped to play midfield full time - also very one sided without out much penetration -- I have my reservations on him playing full time in midfield
Our midfield has let us down all year if Fischer was the answer he would be there by now ..
Like all our midfielder bar cripps and Walsh he is only depth

You mean in the 7 games that he has played this year or the 13 he has missed through injury?

Not saying he is the answer, would love to see him get a full year to see what he could do.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

You mean in the 7 games that he has played this year or the 13 he has missed through injury?

Not saying he is the answer, would love to see him get a full year to see what he could do.

He has had injuries but I still feel he isn't physically equipped yet maybe he can keep growing like Zorko ..

 

[The Bighouse]

You want to trade Fisher for picks and bring in a zippy midfield type?

How about we play our zippy midfield type in the midfield? The place where we most need a zippy type?

This club is crazy.

He needs to play with more substance, does Zac. The flashes aren’t really enough.

 

[Stamos]

Give it a rest

Huh?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

he would be there by now ..

This logic can't be applied to Teague and this current MC

 

[Arr0w]

Huh?

Supposedly the rumour was that our young players would leave if Teague remained as coach, now we are doubling down given he will be replaced?

 

[The Blue Baggers]

A smart club would let Cripps leave. Last couple seasons have been average, I’m not impressed with his captaincy and we just paid 6 years!
That is super dumb!
Let Cripps walk them, no player bigger than club. Where the f is the money coming from re Walsh, Jacob jones yes I said it. Where?
we could had a player and relief or add another pick to draft. But no, we are dickheads yet again.

McGovern …. Final year 2022 ….. $1.2m … there is the $$$ for Walsh & Weitering!!

 

[The Blue Baggers]

For me

Fisher - keep … needs time further up the ground
Dow - trade
O’Brien - happy to trade but not sure you’d get much
SPS - trade
Newman - keep
Newnes - thought he was ok 2021 … disappointing 2022 .. keep 1 year as depth in the VFL
Ed C - keep … fitness fanatic and far from our worst … not sure why people are so quick here
Eddie - disappointing yesterday but been ok this year … probably time but not against 1 more year
Levi - body gone … retire
Murphy - unfortunately gone 2x seasons too many
Plowman - how this guy escapes any real questioning … VFL at best
McGovern - only one more year … thank god … timing perfect to re-direct $ to Walsh & Weitering

PS … whoever made the decision on Zac Williams contract should follow Teague out the door !!

 

[Aramari]

You mean in the 7 games that he has played this year or the 13 he has missed through injury?

Not saying he is the answer, would love to see him get a full year to see what he could do.

The classes of 2015-2017 including imports of that vintage have had time on their side until now. They were fortunate our glorious future could wait for them.

These guys started their Carlton careers in horrible teams with sub-standard coaching, development and culture. But they've been here for ages now. And the team isn't improving. And they, as a group are a major reason.

At some point you have to move on. Maybe in 2022 or 2023 it would all click for Fisher or Setterfield or SPS, but you can't wait forever. The music has finally stopped, and some chairs have been removed.

The tree of victory must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of list cloggers.

 

[Stamos]

Supposedly the rumour was that our young players would leave if Teague remained as coach, now we are doubling down given he will be replaced?

Some of the young players are not happy. Hopefully we can make them happy (and successful).
Teague going will be a step in the right direction. Hopefully the situation isn't too far gone.

 

[Poorman53]

Obrien & fisher need to be moved on
Dow I am still doubtful about
SPS will go if offered

Bloody hell a week can do a bit... Dow has been great. He had a down game.

 

[Arr0w]

Some of the young players are not happy. Hopefully we can make them happy (and successful).
Teague going will be a step in the right direction. Hopefully the situation isn't too far gone.

And that's what I mean

"Many kids will leave if Teague remains"

"Kids will still leave even though Teague will depart"

Let's hedge our bets so the information is always going to be accurate. Really is poor posting

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Bloody hell a week can do a bit... Dow has been great. He had a down game.

Been really encouraged with Dow lately a keeper for me, but by God the difference b/w his best and worse is way too much. 8 touches!! Could better coaching have helped him y’day? Was he injured?

No LOB fan and we should move him on, but to his credit he ended with 14 touches after just 2 to 1/2 time. At least he worked his way back into the game, unlike Paddy who consistently struggles to do so.