List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Poorman53]

Been really encouraged with Dow lately a keeper for me, but by God the difference b/w his best and worse is way too much. 8 touches!! Could better coaching have helped him y’day? Was he injured?

No LOB fan and we should move him on, but to his credit he ended with 14 touches after just 2 to 1/2 time. At least he worked his way back into the game, unlike Paddy who consistently struggles to do so.

Literally his first poor game back. The team didn't turn up with same mindset as the previous week. That and awful tactics will be the final nail in the coffin for a few at the club IMO.

 

[Arr0w]

Retire - Murphy, Betts, Levi, Ed
Retire/delist - Newnes, Newman
Question marks - Boyd, Gibbons, Mcdonald, Marchbank

There's your 8 changes.

Best case scenario we can make changes to the Football Department quickly so some of the young talent doesn't walk.
Reset the culture of the Football Department.

NO CLUB will go into a season with 1 30+ year old in Jones, then the rest of the team 28 and younger

Right now, even with Betts and Murphy, who I agree should retire, we rank 11th for age

List management by age, bizzare

 

[Catfish blue]

T Browne is a clown. The industry throws around the term Journalist pretty loosely these days.

SOJ has been offered less than what he is on now.... I hope he stays.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Literally his first poor game back. The team didn't turn up with same mindset as the previous week. That and awful tactics will be the final nail in the coffin for a few at the club IMO.

What I meant that is that if he starts poorly he struggles to get back into the game. Lately his first quarters have been his best and thankfully propelling him to over 20 touches

 

[forever blue 1]

I think it's naive to assume that these players will automatically become better players under a new coach, esp SPS, who has played for 2 already. At some point, you have to draw a line and admit we got these picks and or their development wrong.

Happy to keep Dow, but firmly believe 1 if not both of SPS and LOB will go.

I cannot see LOB ever reaching the heights expected of a 1st round draft pick, and SPS probably needs a fresh start at Freo.

Can add Fisher to the trading shopping list. Bring in as many good draft picks in and go from there.

Would like more kids in, esp zippy/pacey midfield types.

McGovern …. Final year 2022 ….. $1.2m … there is the $$$ for Walsh & Weitering!!

thanks for your input, fully aware of those 2!!! Haha!!!!!!. Calm the farm

 

[katmanblue]

Pretty sure that trade helped get us setters

Yay

 

[gbatman]

Development is more than coaching, it's culture lead by strong leadership.

It's clear you can get away with things playing for Carlton that you could not get away with playing for Hawthorn back then, Geelong and Richmond through their strong years. Even in our glory days could you imagine not putting your head over the ball and taking a hit, not going when you had to, not chasing an opponant and refusing to go hard for a tackle and having to front up to Stephen Kernahan? There are things a lot of our players do over and over again that would be non-negotiable in those sides. Anyone can compete but not everyone is driven to.

Are the leaders of our side not hard enough and not equipped enough to drive the standards we require? Have we failed to draft players who are strong extraverted and vocal leaders? Have we not focused on educating players on how to be strong leaders and enforce what we want to be "the Carlton way" on the field? This has been the missing piece over the last 20 years.

Players might not take the coach's message too well but when it's coming from the players as well there is nowhere to hide and that has never happened in a Carlton side this century.

Blame Teague all we want, this is every bit as big of an issue for us if not more. If our leaders don't know how to act and push the standards of the team, our next coach is walking in to fail.

 

[Stamos]

And that's what I mean

"Many kids will leave if Teague remains"

"Kids will still leave even though Teague will depart"

Let's hedge our bets so the information is always going to be accurate. Really is poor posting

I'm not hedging at all.
Some players are unhappy. I hope we can keep them. Teague going is the first step towards that.

 

[Poorman53]

NO CLUB will go into a season with 1 30+ year old in Jones, then the rest of the team 28 and younger

Right now, even with Betts and Murphy, who I agree should retire, we rank 11th for age

List management by age, bizzare

Some are being very harsh on Curnow. He doesn't have to be played every week like he is currently under Teague but he easily serves a purpose on the list IMO.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm not hedging at all.
Some players are unhappy. I hope we can keep them. Teague going is the first step towards that.

Keep sitting on the fence

It's like so many last week " see what happens when we play the kids", this week that most of the kids had quiet days "see Teague is shit and the culture is poor"

Could it be a mix of both, absolutely, but to roll out the most negative or positive rhetoric to suit an opinion is hedging

 

[gbatman]

Some of the young players are not happy. Hopefully we can make them happy (and successful).
Teague going will be a step in the right direction. Hopefully the situation isn't too far gone.

They are going to get a rude awakening with the new coach, this is what you get if players aren't developed right in an environment lacking leadership, "the players are unhappy".

 

[Arr0w]

Some are being very harsh on Curnow. He doesn't have to played every week like he is currently under Teague but he easily serves a purpose on the list IMO.

Absolutely and when I see people claiming he is poor culturally, well that's just really poor

 

[forever blue 1]

I personally think development led by actions on field that aren’t acceptable tho hand in hand.

A stronger captains voice to a player drives development. You can only get proper experience through a genuine 4 point game. Training will never be a simulation of a game against an opposition.

Cripps and Doc both go church mouse style when the going get tough. We need a captain with some yap in those type of situations. Both current captains don’t have that attribute.

I’m not saying they are bad players, but their captaincy is not up to standard.

 

[Stamos]

Keep sitting on the fence

It's like so many last week " see what happens when we play the kids", this week that most of the kids had quiet days "see Teague is sh*t and the culture is poor"

Could it be a mix of both, absolutely, but to roll out the most negative or positive rhetoric to suit an opinion is hedging

Play the kids, like bringing in an underdone Eddie for his 5 touches?
That play the kids?

I'm not sitting on the fence at all. I think Lloyd and Teague have to go, and we should retire off all the older players except Jones. How is that possibly sitting on the fence?

 

[The Bighouse]

I'm not hedging at all.
Some players are unhappy. I hope we can keep them. Teague going is the first step towards that.

Who is unhappy?

Club has not lost any players wanting out, and in fact has seemed very harmonious since the ‘15 “reset”. Players have wanted to join, and have ($ could be a factor for some) despite our lowly position.

Culture itself does not seem to be problematic, however a winning mentality and to strive for excellence at every turn seems to be elusive for the club. Not rocking up to play needs more explaining from the club, how to fix that & other fixable problems will hopefully be addressed (hopefully our skills, endeavour, at times, intent to contest/tackle/win are up there).

 

[Stamos]

Some are being very harsh on Curnow. He doesn't have to be played every week like he is currently under Teague but he easily serves a purpose on the list IMO.

You need to create space so that the younger players can flourish, so that we can have a more successful future.

Ed can still play, but what does he offer aside from tagging? We need to be looking forward.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

SOJ has been offered less than what he is on now.... I hope he stays.

That is ludicrous if true. A big part of our future and one of few who actually plays footy in the right way, that would stand up in finals. Pay him what he deserves (and I'm sure he's not asking for anything unrealistic).

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

You need to create space so that the younger players can flourish, so that we can have a more successful future.

Ed can still play, but what does he offer aside from tagging? We need to be looking forward.

Are there actually any successful examples of this which haven’t just been a case on natural progression?

 

[berisha]

Why would any decent free agents, including Cerra want to come to Carlton given the stink that surrounds the club at the moment?

 

[Stamos]

They are going to get a rude awakening with the new coach, this is what you get if players aren't developed right in an environment lacking leadership, "the players are unhappy".

Maybe some will get a rude awakening and be weeded out.
Hopefully most (or even all) of them flourish with a reset of our culture, and some good coaching.

 

[Ash24]

I was warming to the idea of getting Cerra, but now I can see that it would definitely be the wrong decision.

One elite mid will not change the problem we face, it's the B/C graders who just aren't performing their roles - Dow, LOB, Fisher, Betts, Plowman, Willo, SPS etc. That changes with an improved culture, selection integrity, and a coach who is on the ball.

Paying high draft picks and players just to get Cerra will only mask our problem deep underneath.

 

[Arr0w]

Play the kids, like bringing in an underdone Eddie for his 5 touches?
That play the kids?

I'm not sitting on the fence at all. I think Lloyd and Teague have to go, and we should retire off all the older players except Jones. How is that possibly sitting on the fence?

And yet another deflection, debate my post rather than adding Betts who I have already stated way longer than you should not have been added to the list

You, like so many others shift comment, depending on which strengthens your agenda more

When a new footy department is installed and all those players you want gone, based purely on age, doesn't eventuate, I will look forward to you being critically stoic against the new regime

 

[Metalcrusher]

I was warming to the idea of getting Cerra, but now I can see that it would definitely be the wrong decision.

One elite mid will not change the problem we face, it's the B/C graders who just aren't performing their roles - Dow, LOB, Fisher, Betts, Plowman, Willo, SPS etc. That changes with an improved culture, selection integrity, and a coach who is on the ball.

Paying high draft picks and players just to get Cerra will only mask our problem deep underneath.

Getting Cerra would not be an issue if we hadn't have let our tall timber stocks deplete the way we have.

 

[Ash24]

Getting Cerra would not be an issue if we hadn't have let our tall timber stocks deplete the way we have.

Although I agree that we're severely lacking KPPs, that will not fix the reason why we are losing such easy games the way we are.

Yesterday we had Weiters, Jones, TDK, Harry, Charlie and JSOS all playing - that's the most amount of talls you are likely to play at once, and all would be in our fully fit best 22.

Our problem is with our B and C grade mids/flankers not performing to the standard they are required.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Although I agree that we're severely lacking KPPs, that will not fix the reason why we are losing such easy games the way we are.

Yesterday we had Weiters, Jones, TDK, Harry, Charlie and JSOS all playing - that's the most amount of talls you are likely to play at once, and all would be in our fully fit best 22.

Our problem is with our B and C grade mids/flankers not performing to the standard they are required.

Merely referencing the fact will we need to draft in a replacement height sooner rather than later and Cerra will need draft picks.