List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[jd2010]

He isn't a below average kick though.

Is Sam Frost a below avg kick?

 

[jd2010]

How many of those just kick it long to a contest? Thereby getting a stat for an effective disposal, regardless of outcome for the team? And how many consistently take easier shorter options?

"A kick of 40m to a contest is considered an effective kick unless it is intercepted"

Can we stop trying to defend the indefensible? No wonder we have had decades of shit. Or has the decades of shit lowered our expectations to accept it?

 

[Revenant1965]

My guess for where we finish on ladder is 13th (best case, highly improbable is 8th, worst case, also highly unlikely is 15th). That means pick 6 (probably more like 8 after F/S). IF Cerra wanted to come to Vic and CFC, how much more than that would be required to satisfy Freo? Would future 1st picks have to be involved in some way?
I also note that some suggestions are a combination of players and picks. But this is rare.
My own thought is that I believe we still need to utilise draft.
My preference is to keep draft picks unless Cerra cost not much more than our 1st this year...

 

[BringFevBack2021]

My guess for where we finish on ladder is 13th (best case, highly improbable is 8th, worst case, also highly unlikely is 15th). That means pick 6 (probably more like 8 after F/S). IF Cerra wanted to come to Vic and CFC, how much more than that would be required to satisfy Freo? Would future 1st picks have to be involved in some way?
I also note that some suggestions are a combination of players and picks. But this is rare.
My own thought is that I believe we still need to utilise draft.
My preference is to keep draft picks unless Cerra cost not much more than our 1st this year...

Something to consider with Fremantles perspective on Cerra is what we'd want if we had a kid in his 3rd/4th year who was a top 10 pick and was starting to become a star?

I'd imagine everyone in this forum would turn their noses up at his original draft pick value, and suggest it'd be that + a late first / early second at a minimum. I reckon that's what the Cerra trade would look like. I'm okay with trading out our first pick if we are getting a young prospect, it's not a good idea when you trade it out for a 26+ year old unless it's your Chris Judd type mould.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Adelaide's Tom Lynch not being offered a new contract, would have to think he'd be on our radar.

Tex, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Himmelberg, Frampton - seems he's just the older head that will make way as they continue to play the younger blokes.

Direct replacement for Levi as a depth forward, and at 31 years old would probably be good for 1-2 years, buying us some time to develop a young tall we pick up via the draft.

First pick - draft a young KPD (Gibcus)
Second pick - draft a forward (Amiss, if he slides), forward/ruck (Williams) or pure ruck (Conway), or trade a young one in (Ballenden?)
Free Agent - Lynch

If we can find a way to buy back in to the first round (trading a future pick, or moving on a player or two) then that would be the time to look at another mid like Ward or Sonsie.

 

[Jeremias]

Direct replacement for Levi as a depth forward, and at 31 years old would probably be good for 1-2 years, buying us some time to develop a young tall we pick up via the draft.

I'm a Lynch fan but reckon it's a huge stretch to say he's in any way, shape or form a 'Levi replacement'.

Completely different type of footballer.

 

[CJMB]

Adelaide's Tom Lynch not being offered a new contract, would have to think he'd be on our radar.

Tex, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Himmelberg, Frampton - seems he's just the older head that will make way as they continue to play the younger blokes.

Direct replacement for Levi as a depth forward, and at 31 years old would probably be good for 1-2 years, buying us some time to develop a young tall we pick up via the draft.

First pick - draft a young KPD (Gibcus)
Second pick - draft a forward (Amiss, if he slides), forward/ruck (Williams) or pure ruck (Conway), or trade a young one in (Ballenden?)
Free Agent - Lynch

If we can find a way to buy back in to the first round (trading a future pick, or moving on a player or two) then that would be the time to look at another mid like Ward or Sonsie.

Not keen on Lynch.

He’s hardly a Levi replacement except that he’s a forward and is a similar age.

He’s not really a tall per say, plays the same hhf ‘tall flanker’ role Jack can (albeit without the midfield capability and general versatility). He’s not giving us KPP coverage.

 

[morningbrown]

Saying Lynch is a Levi replacement is like saying Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

would be a Kreuzer replacement.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm a Lynch fan but reckon it's a huge stretch to say he's in any way, shape or form a 'Levi replacement'.

Completely different type of footballer.

Not keen on Lynch.

He’s hardly a Levi replacement except that he’s a forward and is a similar age.

He’s not really a tall per say, plays the same hhf ‘tall flanker’ role Jack can (albeit without the midfield capability and general versatility). He’s not giving us KPP coverage.

He's not a carbon copy, for sure, never said he was. But we saw this season how dire things got up forward with a few injuries, and if Levi is moved on or calls time, then we're going to need at least one mature forward option on the books as depth. Lynch isn't a focal point, but he could absolutely play as the second tall to Charlie or Harry, leading at the ball carrier to provide a marking option or creating space behind him for Harry/Charlie to operate.

Lynch as depth would be solid, and about as good as I reckon you'll get when it comes to cheap, mature age forwards who may be willing to play reserves for much of the year.

Weiters, Jones, McDonald, Parks, Marchbank (inj)
TDK, Pittonet, Mirkov
Harry, Charlie, JSOS, Gov, Lynch(?)

Gibcus would then add to the defensive stocks, while one of Williams or Conway could be developed as a ruck or forward/ruck.

Saying Lynch is a Levi replacement is like saying Caleb Daniel would be a Kreuzer replacement.

Thanks for that incredibly inaccurate and unhelpful contribution.

 

[CJMB]

He's not a carbon copy, for sure, never said he was. But we saw this season how dire things got up forward with a few injuries, and if Levi is moved on or calls time, then we're going to need at least one mature forward option on the books as depth. Lynch isn't a focal point, but he could absolutely play as the second tall to Charlie or Harry, leading at the ball carrier to provide a marking option or creating space behind him for Harry/Charlie to operate.

Lynch as depth would be solid, and about as good as I reckon you'll get when it comes to cheap, mature age forwards who may be willing to play reserves for much of the year.

Weiters, Jones, McDonald, Parks, Marchbank (inj)
TDK, Pittonet, Mirkov
Harry, Charlie, JSOS, Gov, Lynch(?)

Gibcus would then add to the defensive stocks, while one of Williams or Conway could be developed as a ruck or forward/ruck.



Thanks for that incredibly inaccurate and unhelpful contribution. Dickhead.

I'd rather just skip the Lynch 'placeholder' pick and go for someone younger who can play KPP and has some scope for development.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'd rather just skip the Lynch 'placeholder' pick and go for someone younger who can play KPP and has some scope for development.

Hence the "Gibcus would then add to the defensive stocks, while one of Williams or Conway could be developed as a ruck or forward/ruck" bit.

Use our draft picks to lock down those spots for the future, but grab a free agent who can impact immediately if called upon.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

He's not a carbon copy, for sure, never said he was. But we saw this season how dire things got up forward with a few injuries, and if Levi is moved on or calls time, then we're going to need at least one mature forward option on the books as depth. Lynch isn't a focal point, but he could absolutely play as the second tall to Charlie or Harry, leading at the ball carrier to provide a marking option or creating space behind him for Harry/Charlie to operate.

Lynch as depth would be solid, and about as good as I reckon you'll get when it comes to cheap, mature age forwards who may be willing to play reserves for much of the year.

Weiters, Jones, McDonald, Parks, Marchbank (inj)
TDK, Pittonet, Mirkov
Harry, Charlie, JSOS, Gov, Lynch(?)

Gibcus would then add to the defensive stocks, while one of Williams or Conway could be developed as a ruck or forward/ruck.



Thanks for that incredibly inaccurate and unhelpful contribution.

Lynch has been injured most of this year, then came back into the SANFL and kicked 3, then got most disposals the week after and 4 assists. Showed he's still far above the local level. Came back into the seniors with a goal, 25 possessions and 6 score involvements, and has maintained those averages the rest of this season so far, particularly with score involvements. The only reason we're letting him go is that we've got players coming through, like Brayden Cook, who we're looking to develop in that link-up role.

My guess is that GC, Pies, Kangas and perhaps yourselves will be right into him.

 

[Jeremias]

He's not a carbon copy, for sure, never said he was. But we saw this season how dire things got up forward with a few injuries, and if Levi is moved on or calls time, then we're going to need at least one mature forward option on the books as depth. Lynch isn't a focal point, but he could absolutely play as the second tall to Charlie or Harry, leading at the ball carrier to provide a marking option or creating space behind him for Harry/Charlie to operate.

Lynch as depth would be solid, and about as good as I reckon you'll get when it comes to cheap, mature age forwards who may be willing to play reserves for much of the year.

Have no issue with him as a depth player but I suspect he'll have interest from elsewhere that may provide him with a bigger role for a year or two.

All things going well (which yeah, we know they barely ever do) there's probably an argument to be made that he's 5th or 6th 'tall' in line up forward - in which case I'd rather a kid. There has to be a point where you don't just plan for the worst case scenario IMO.

I'm a fan and won't lose any sleep if he comes across but think he's better suited elsewhere.

 

[jd2010]

Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

is more of a Levi upgrade than the Crows Tom Lynch, if we are talking about gettable ruck/fwds

 

[CJMB]

Mason Cox is more of a Levi upgrade than the Crows Tom Lynch, if we are talking about gettable ruck/fwds

....yet I'd prefer Lynch if they were the only options

 

[jd2010]

....yet I'd prefer Lynch if they were the only options

Wouldn't be thrilled with any of the 3 but would have Levi easily bottom of the pile

 

[Jeremias]

Levi is a much, much better footballer than Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

. If it's one or the other its a complete no brainer to retain Levi.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Somewhat true, but there were decent equivalent cheaper option available at the time, but we don't know if they were gettable by us

The issue was timing, those type of trades are when you have cemented yourself in the 8, not trying to break in

That and we had been talking to his management for a while. Sometimes you just need the deal to get done, or others will no longer deal with you ...

Whilst I would have preferred to give up a late first rounder for Saad (which could have been achieved by splitting the No.8 pick for two late first round pick and the on trading one to Essendon for a Saad), the trade we did for Saad (who’s been good this year - probably top 6 in B&F) would have probably been fine if Williams successfully transitioned into the midfield. Given Williams didn’t and had to be pushed back to defence, now leaves us with two high priced half back flankers.

He's not a carbon copy, for sure, never said he was. But we saw this season how dire things got up forward with a few injuries, and if Levi is moved on or calls time, then we're going to need at least one mature forward option on the books as depth. Lynch isn't a focal point, but he could absolutely play as the second tall to Charlie or Harry, leading at the ball carrier to provide a marking option or creating space behind him for Harry/Charlie to operate.

Lynch as depth would be solid, and about as good as I reckon you'll get when it comes to cheap, mature age forwards who may be willing to play reserves for much of the year.

Weiters, Jones, McDonald, Parks, Marchbank (inj)
TDK, Pittonet, Mirkov
Harry, Charlie, JSOS, Gov, Lynch(?)

Gibcus would then add to the defensive stocks, while one of Williams or Conway could be developed as a ruck or forward/ruck.



Thanks for that incredibly inaccurate and unhelpful contribution.

I agree with most of this I just really doubt whether we should be counting Marchbank (injuries aside) and Parks as key position defenders when they are more third tall/intercept defenders.
This KPP shortage should be the number focus of our recruiting team this off season so I'd like to see us pick up Gibcus with our draft pick as Jones' long term replacement and then pickup a couple of cheap short term options like Blake Schlensog and Daniel Talia who can cover Weiters or Jones if they get injured next season.
I like the idea of us targeting Max Lynch (or Bailey Williams from West Coast) as the back up ruckman/forward to replace Levi.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Levi is a much, much better footballer than Mason Cox. If it's one or the other its a complete no brainer to retain Levi.

His body has given, just about as much as it can. I don't reckon he will play on. Not because I want him gone, but because I don't think he has much more left to give.

And to be fair to the other side of the equation, we need to move past players like this.

 

[zeggie]

His body has given, just about as much as it can. I don't reckon he will play on. Not because I want him gone, but because I don't think he has much more left to give.

And to be fair to the other side of the equation, we need to move past players like this.

Agreed. I think Levi is cooked.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Eddie Betts Last 10 games of 2020 averages per game
Disposals - 8.4
Goals - 0.4
Behinds - 0.8
marks - 1.5

We offered a 34yo a contract extension on the back of this.. His last month of football has been horrendous, and the fact he has been keeping Josh Honey out of the side all season, who since getting a chance has shown he can play at the level and now Eddie is keeping Owies out who has been 1 of our few bright sparks this year.. The talk that he will be extended is ludicrous.

 

[Aphrodite]

Murph to hang up the boots.

Thank you Marc.

Murphy calls time

Marc Murphy will run out for the 300th and final time this weekend.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Beyond Blue]

Whilst I would have preferred to give up a late first rounder for Saad (which could have been achieved by splitting the No.8 pick for two late first round pick and the on trading one to Essendon for a Saad), the trade we did for Saad (who’s been good this year - probably top 6 in B&F) would have probably been fine if Williams successfully transitioned into the midfield. Given Williams didn’t and had to be pushed back to defence, now leaves us with two high priced half back flankers.


I agree with most of this I just really doubt whether we should be counting Marchbank (injuries aside) and Parks as key position defenders when they are more third tall/intercept defenders.
This KPP shortage should be the number focus of our recruiting team this off season so I'd like to see us pick up Gibcus with our draft pick as Jones' long term replacement and then pickup a couple of cheap short term options like Blake Schlensog and Daniel Talia who can cover Weiters or Jones if they get injured next season.
I like the idea of us targeting Lynch (or Bailey Williams from West Coast) as the back up ruckman/forward to replace Levi.

Sorry I should qualify that when I say Lynch I mean the Collingwood Ruck/Forward, not the Adelaide Lynch.

 

[Aphrodite]

Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

Goodlord!

 

[Ash24]

Pretty damning...