List Mgmt. 2022 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals: Kinnear & Dalrymple - we march to no drum but our own!

[Ticky009]

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Would be total madness to trade out any of our first rounders this year IMO.
We need some talls in now, so they can be contributing to the flags in 2,3,4 years.
This is the year I'd consider trading our future 1st pick OUT to get another one IN NOW, not the other way round!

Barnett + Hayes/Steddle sets us up nicely for the flag tilt, or we've had an absolute dud draft day this year.

Didn't Dalrymple collect an entire team full of midfielders at the Dogs?
It left them short of KPPs when they needed them come finals time and prob cost them a couple of flags. (ignoring the corrupt farce of 2016).
We don't want to repeat that error.

He drafted English and Naughton as first rounders.

If we don’t rate the tall options we won’t reach its smart drafting policy. There isn’t 3+ talls in our range that are worth it. There just isn’t.

 

[ShireSwan]

We're going to pick at least one mid, maybe more, we just will. Dalrymple loves mids. We've also lost Clarke to the senior team, Taylor, Bell, Ronke, so I wouldn't be expecting Sheldrick and Roberts to be left as the sum of our inside mids in reserves. We'll want to have at least 3 or 4 developing there.

Sheather come on down?
Though you are very probably right about at least one, prob two. I just hope we grab the KPPs we need with our first two picks.

 

[ShireSwan]

There isn’t 3+ talls in our range that are worth it. There just isn’t.

Yeah, well, that's just your opinion man.

Barnett, Hayes and Steddle look good picks to me.
Dunno why we are discussing it anyways - it's not like anyone has the least clue what we are actually going to do on draft day. Nobody ever does.

As if to reinforce my point the recruitment of English and Naughton came too late to help them when they were in the flag window in 2017/18.

 

[Bloods86]

You do know when we take a mid and flip our second to next year that my hunch will be right lol

I'm not sure we rate the tall options one single bit, everything out of the club is like we rate the top 10, that's it. Then it's a lottery, my gut says we take one first rounder, flip the second to Carlton (or whoever) for their future 1. They take pick 43 and our next as dead set dart throw picks.

I've said all along I am saying what I want to happen, not what I think will happen. If we pick up a mid, trade out our other 1st rounder, neglect to bring in a ruck, and just grab Edwards with a rookie pick - I think that will be wrong and will be a failure of a draft period. I'm prepared to be disappointed, just as I was last year when we went mids only (though Paddy in the SSP and how he came on certainly helped in hindsight).

 

[Bloods86]

He drafted English and Naughton as first rounders.

If we don’t rate the tall options we won’t reach its smart drafting policy. There isn’t 3+ talls in our range that are worth it. There just isn’t.

The difference is that you want to "win" the drafts, whereas some of us would prefer to win flags. I don't care if we pick up a tall that we don't think is guaranteed A grade, we are a better chance of having talls to fill impending holes if we have them on our books, than us having a plethora of mids, some of whom will just leave in a couple of years because there's no opportunity, or putting things off til later years in the hope that things will be better then (when the same "oh next year is better" messaging happens every single year).

 

[Bloods86]

Sheather come on down?
Though you are very probably right about at least one, prob two. I just hope we grab the KPPs we need with our first two picks.

I doubt very much we'll grab 2 KPPs with our first rounders. We'll pick up a mid, maybe there's some hope we'll bring in Barnett or one of the KPDs (Hayes, Weddle) with one of them.

 

[Bloods86]

I hadn’t even considered the prospect of a trade down until today.

But if we did happen to trade down into the 2nd round and selected Sam Gilbey …. I’d be nearly as happy as when we selected Sheldrick (nearly, but not quite).

I like the phrase “playing third round lottery” too - kudos!

I've said a few times I'd be happy to grab best mid at our first, then use our second 1st rounder and 41 to get 2 picks in the 20s. We'll likely miss on Barnett (not convinced we'd pick him anyway, though we should), but could grab a couple of Keeler, Gruzewski or others.

Not sure a half back is what we need though.

 

[caesar88]

Yet KPP aren't? They all are, you have to back your system that's basically what it comes down to. You never know when injuries occur.

Our key position stocks are nowhere near as good as our mid stocks IMO. So a mid is going to be a lot further down in the pecking order for senior games than a tall would be.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah, well, that's just your opinion man.

Barnett, Hayes and Steddle look good picks to me.
Dunno why we are discussing it anyways - it's not like anyone has the least clue what we are actually going to do on draft day. Nobody ever does.

As if to reinforce my point the recruitment of English and Naughton came too late to help them when they were in the flag window in 2017/18.

Not against Barnett the others have little interest rather grad Van Es than those two and he’s going later on.Two smaller types and one tall is fine

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Our key position stocks are nowhere near as good as our mid stocks IMO. So a mid is going to be a lot further down in the pecking order for senior games than a tall would be.

Yes they have an upside but I am reserved by our mids and not just because they were flogged in the GF.

 

[caesar88]

Yes they have an upside but I am reserved by our mids and not just because they were flogged in the GF.

What are your reservations about our mids Horace?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The difference is that you want to "win" the drafts, whereas some of us would prefer to win flags. I don't care if we pick up a tall that we don't think is guaranteed A grade, we are a better chance of having talls to fill impending holes if we have them on our books, than us having a plethora of mids, some of whom will just leave in a couple of years because there's no opportunity, or putting things off til later years in the hope that things will be better then (when the same "oh next year is better" messaging happens every single year).

It’s not about winning the draft but my philosophy hasn’t changed you reach you are asking for trouble let’s just look at the Ling disaster. I’m fine with taking Barnett he’s around the right range at 14/17 (whatever those picks become with Bud matching)

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Our key position stocks are nowhere near as good as our mid stocks IMO. So a mid is going to be a lot further down in the pecking order for senior games than a tall would be.

Fair but they have to be worth the selection if we rate the talls say pick 30 for arguments sake it would be dumb to take them at 14/17. That’s way over the odds, and it’s asking for trouble.

 

[Kirkswan]

Yep.

And given that both Rowy and McI were “reaches” in the 2018 draft, you’d hope the usual “I’m so annoyed” crowd won’t emerge again on draft night if / when we pick a few unheralded kids.

Mate... you're dreaming!!!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

What are your reservations about our mids Horace?

Lack of game breaking skills , Chad excepted. Mills may become an A Grade mid but I don’t see him as having Champion level skills. I think Rowbottom may top out as a B+ player through his career which is fine but not a regular dynamic game breakwater, The way the game is played I think Parker’s time as a rough and ready mid is limited.

Our guys are solid but I think they do not have the basis to be a dominant midfield. Playing to perennially losing rucks obviously does not help. That won’t change as Horse does not seem to believe in quality rucks.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Lack of game breaking skills , Chad excepted. Mills may become an A Grade mid but I don’t see him as having Champion level skills. I think Rowbottom may top out as a B+ player through his career which is fine but not a regular dynamic game breakwater, The way the game is played I think Parker’s time as a rough and ready mid is limited.

Our guys are solid but I think they do not have the basis to be a dominant midfield. Playing to perennially losing rucks obviously does not help. That won’t change as Horse does not seem to believe in quality rucks.

To be fair you wouldn’t say Geelong won a comp last year with a fantastic ruck division. So Horse’ thinking that the importance of rucks isn’t as critical has some merit.

 

[Bloods86]

It’s not about winning the draft but my philosophy hasn’t changed you reach you are asking for trouble let’s just look at the Ling disaster. I’m fine with taking Barnett he’s around the right range at 14/17 (whatever those picks become with Bud matching)

Ling wasn't a reach. I've said it before, there were "expert" draft rankings that had him going in the mid to late teens, where we picked him (at 14), others by early 20s. If you paid attention, you'd also know that injuries ruined his career, so we have no idea if pick 14 was too early anyway. If you base your philosophy on the draft "experts" rankings, I mean that's fair enough, most of us don't have inside knowledge, then he wasn't a reach.

Sheldrick on the other hand, was a reach by that measure, and you, like many others didn't bat an eyelid because he was a midfielder.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

To be fair you wouldn’t say Geelong won a comp last year with a fantastic ruck division. So Horse’ thinking that the importance of rucks isn’t as critical has some merit.

Their Mids towelled our blokes on the day.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Ling wasn't a reach. I've said it before, there were "expert" draft rankings that had him going in the mid to late teens, where we picked him (at 14), others by early 20s. If you paid attention, you'd also know that injuries ruined his career, so we have no idea if pick 14 was too early anyway. If you base your philosophy on the draft "experts" rankings, I mean that's fair enough, most of us don't have inside knowledge, then he wasn't a reach.

Sheldrick on the other hand, was a reach by that measure, and you, like many others didn't bat an eyelid because he was a midfielder.

Ling’s foot injury wrecked his prospects.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Ling wasn't a reach. I've said it before, there were "expert" draft rankings that had him going in the mid to late teens, where we picked him (at 14), others by early 20s. If you paid attention, you'd also know that injuries ruined his career, so we have no idea if pick 14 was too early anyway. If you base your philosophy on the draft "experts" rankings, I mean that's fair enough, most of us don't have inside knowledge, then he wasn't a reach.

Sheldrick on the other hand, was a reach by that measure, and you, like many others didn't bat an eyelid because he was a midfielder.

The blokes that went after him sure would have been handy, especially the tall that went to West Coast.

I’m fine taking Barnett, he’s the one that is worth it. It’s the other ones personally I have an issue, they aren’t first round talents. These late firsts are like mid to late second rounders in a normal draft. Why do you recon clubs want picks next year (and it’s not just us wanting them)

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Their Mids towelled our blokes on the day.

They did which is why I’m for getting a genuine bull mid it’s the type we lack in depth.

 

[Millky95]

Lack of game breaking skills , Chad excepted. Mills may become an A Grade mid but I don’t see him as having Champion level skills. I think Rowbottom may top out as a B+ player through his career which is fine but not a regular dynamic game breakwater, The way the game is played I think Parker’s time as a rough and ready mid is limited.

Our guys are solid but I think they do not have the basis to be a dominant midfield. Playing to perennially losing rucks obviously does not help. That won’t change as Horse does not seem to believe in quality rucks.

A rotating inside group of Gus, Rowy, Mills, Warner and Roberts getting it out Gulden and Campbell to put it inside 50 is gonna be great in 3-4 years

Just need a quality ruck with them

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Ling’s foot injury wrecked his prospects.

It certainly didn’t help - but he had a full couple of years post injury to break into the side & couldn’t do it.

I think that we did cop a bust with Ling.

Fortunately, we’ll never draft a bust ever again.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

They did which is why I’m for getting a genuine bull mid it’s the type we lack in depth.

With the best will in the world those available to us are unlikely to be upgrades on what we have.
Sheldrick might develop and I’d like to see Gulden spend more time there. I fear for Roberts who looks one paced to me,

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

It certainly didn’t help - but he had a full couple of years post injury to break into the side & couldn’t do it.

I think that we did cop a bust with Ling.

Fortunately, we’ll never draft a bust ever again.

ling never regained his pace.