List Mgmt. 2022 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals: Kinnear & Dalrymple - we march to no drum but our own!

[Ticky009]

 

[Tedeski]

Today let's revel in the dastardly moves we put on GWS last night, but they'll remember this and we should expect payback in the coming years. I've always felt that there's been an unspoken pact between the 4 Northern Academy teams not to bid on each other's players early, but now that that compact has been broken by us last night, I expect sharpened knives at our throats especially from the Giants' end.

The sharpened knives have been at our throats for years Grim.
It just great to throw a dart back every now & then as we did last night & when we traded out & back into the draft which allowed us to take Rowbottom.

As a club we have had to find the best way to play the rules since that trade ban.
Payback is being handed out & stretched over a few years which is wonderful.

Oh, what's more, I still think we have a sequel to last night on the cards tonight.

 

[Bandicoot]

I disagree. The bid on Rowston was absolutely calculated to help us still get Konstanty after trading out our first pick. And it worked beautifully.

And while I wondered whether the Adelaide bid was to get extra time I actually think it was revenge for Dawson.

At the same time, those players were thoroughly deserving of the bids and would have been good for us if we had got them. I think they are justified.

For those who believe placing a bid on someone's father/son or academy players is being petty and a waste of time, I completely disagree.
Clubs (other than us generally) are very hard to deal with at trade time and are happy to screw the other party. You need to look after your club, not others. The Swans bid on Rowston was genius. As a local boy with zero "go home" factor, we would have been more than happy to have taken him. The fact that GWS were not prepared to let us have him indicates his bid was not too early at all. In addition to that, it meant that the pick that GWS had between our first and second disappeared, moving us up one spot. There is no doubt in my mind that GWS would have taken Konstanty with that pick that has now gone.
I'm hoping GWS sell pick 22 to another club (other than Collingwood) as I feel that GWS and Collingwood are the only clubs to have a pick before our 27 that would be interested in Barnett. If they hold it, I feel they will pick him.

 

[caesar88]

Looks like we see it a bit differently. In your favour, your theory accounts for us using up so much time on the clock. But I still think that bid on Rowston was a preconceived tactic to get Konstanty. We may have been buying time with the Michalanney bid while we were auctioning our pick to the highest bidder and extracting an extra concession from Hawthorn after telling them about a rival offer.

We could've just taken Konstanty though if we wanted him that badly. Doesn't make sense to go to all those shenanigans to stop GWS from taking the player that we had first access to.

 

[Callipygian]

I'm curious to see what the peeps from other clubs are saying about the draft (and us in particular). Can someone post a link to the thread? I had a bit of a look via the forums thread but got lost. I did have a look at the draft threads from some of the other clubs last night (Hawthorn, GWS, West Coast). The West Coasters were happy with their draft haul. Hawthorn were mostly aghast at the trade they did with us and underwhelmed by the selection of Weddle instead of Allan. GWS had nothing to say which made me think there must definitely be some other threads where PMBangers etc were posting.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I think you have zero basis to say that. Amartey a 2nd round rookie pick, vs the much more highly rated Keeler. In any case, Amartey's just gone 23, got top 5 VFL goalkicking while playing much less games (including some he left early due to injury), so even if he was just another Amartey, I'm not sure that's going to be a bad thing. He certainly seems more highly rated.

Unless you've got a magical solution to the upcoming lack of KPF depth, maybe a "we'll just grab one of the guns next year by finishing bottom 4" or "we'll just trade one in despite losing COLA".

I did say I’d have been happy to grab Jefferson but I also said he wouldn’t get past Melbourne. Don’t feel you reach for tall options I’ve been consistent there. I’m not against grabbing Haynes, Barnett at 27. There are a few options, just don’t want Keeler

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Keeler has a high ceiling and low floor. Amartey has a big range (from where he's performing now to where we'd like him to be) but ceiling is lower and his floor is higher.

See I feel it’s different. Amartey has scope though doubt he’s more than depth in the end. Keeler I don’t see it, no set position and that’s a mighty red flag. Yeah a bit of this and but of that but it’s an almighty Hail Mary. Pick 42 happy to punt though not at 27

 

[Bloods86]

I did say I’d have been happy to grab Jefferson but I also said he wouldn’t get past Melbourne. Don’t feel you reach for tall options I’ve been consistent there. I’m not against grabbing Haynes, Barnett at 27. There are a few options, just don’t want Keeler

I know, you don't believe in reaching for anyone other than mids. Also, by your own definition of reaching (where the draft "experts" rate players), Keeler is nowhere near a reach if we were to take him at any point from now.

 

[Wolftone]

Konstanty will be a LOT better as a small forward. Rather Campbell up the ground. It’s a big season for Campbell only so long you can keep banging on about him being an elite kick. Tank still a huge issue.

Campbell is better as a small forward, probably half forward. He changed to mids when the need was there. He is an elite kick. If you want him to increase his endurance you don't play him in the back pocket. I think that was a bad move and has effected his footy.

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[LukeParkerno1]

Campbell is better as a small forward, probably half forward. He changed to mids when the need was there. He is an elite kick. If you want him to increase his endurance you don't play him in the back pocket. I think that was a bad move and has effected his footy.

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I agree with you. I don’t like him in defence at all, his kicking is there but he needs a position. I am on board with him on the HF line but is there a spot? Hayward is a certain selection

 

[Bloods86]

See I feel it’s different. Amartey has scope though doubt he’s more than depth in the end. Keeler I don’t see it, no set position and that’s a mighty red flag. Yeah a bit of this and but of that but it’s an almighty Hail Mary. Pick 42 happy to punt though not at 27

If you were in charge of our list, we may never have recruited the likes of Goodes. Amartey was a ruck/fwd, not set on either position when drafted. Keeler is probably more the other way, fwd then ruck, but he also gets a fair bit more of the ball than Amartey did in his draft year.

 

[RUNVS]

Very much want Hustwaite with pick 27. He could still be there.

 

[Wolftone]

We didn't get a type I wanted (or the next 4 types), but the pick swap and sticking it to GWS, Crows were great. Plenty of opportunity tomorrow and Weds too. At least 2 ND and 1 live Cat A rookie pick.

I understand the pick swap as it gives us a 2nd & 3rd for next year and 2 Academy prospects, Cabor & Cleary. But in moving back to 27 we might have just managed to miss out on a prospect we need. I wonder if they are after someone specific and think he will go around that mark? If they are wrong we have virtually no way to get up the board now.

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[LukeParkerno1]

I know, you don't believe in reaching for anyone other than mids. Also, by your own definition of reaching (where the draft "experts" rate players), Keeler is nowhere near a reach if we were to take him at any point from now.

Rather take George, Hotton, Barnett, etc though. Take the tall at 42 if Barnett isn’t on the table. Hayes the other one I’d be happy with at 27. So there you go I’ve named 2 talls I’d be happy with.

 

[Bloods86]

I agree with you. I don’t like him in defence at all, his kicking is there but he needs a position. I am on board with him on the HF line but is there a spot? Hayward is a certain selection

With 2-3 talls, Heeney and Hayward, Papley in/out from mids, no-one is getting into that forward line unless Clarke drops out. That's who Campbell would come in for. As I said, we played Ronke there before we tried Clarke, so a pure defensive forward isn't seen as a necessity by the club.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

If you were in charge of our list, we may never have recruited the likes of Goodes. Amartey was a ruck/fwd, not set on either position when drafted. Keeler is probably more the other way, fwd then ruck, but he also gets a fair bit more of the ball than Amartey did in his draft year.

There is a line to reaching though it’s why Konstanty was a smart pick. Wasn’t a reach and filled a need

 

[LukeParkerno1]

With 2-3 talls, Heeney and Hayward, Papley in/out from mids, no-one is getting into that forward line unless Clarke drops out. That's who Campbell would come in for. As I said, we played Ronke there before we tried Clarke, so a pure defensive forward isn't seen as a necessity by the club.

Think that might be the spot and it’s for Clarke although I’d almost play Konstanty as a small forward anyway

 

[Bloods86]

Rather take George, Hotton, Barnett, etc though. Take the tall at 42 if Barnett isn’t on the table. Hayes the other one I’d be happy with at 27. So there you go I’ve named 2 talls I’d be happy with.

You talk as if we just need "a tall", "any tall will do", without considering specific needs. For someone who hates players who are versatile, you seem not to care what kind of talls we get.

 

[Mick F]

I'm curious to see what the peeps from other clubs are saying about the draft (and us in particular). Can someone post a link to the thread? I had a bit of a look via the forums thread but got lost. I did have a look at the draft threads from some of the other clubs last night (Hawthorn, GWS, West Coast). The West Coasters were happy with their draft haul. Hawthorn were mostly aghast at the trade they did with us and underwhelmed by the selection of Weddle instead of Allan. GWS had nothing to say which made me think there must definitely be some other threads where PMBangers etc were posting.

Pies very happy with Allan. Now hoping for Hayes/Cowan and Barnett/Keeler. Assuming George won’t get through.

GWS or West Coast should nominate Davey.

Collingwood building for 2025/26.

 

[Wolftone]

I see Campbell as long term replacement for Lloyd but who knows right.

I don't think that is a very good idea. Campbell was played back because of his lack of defensive pressure as a forward. He was there to learn how to defend, which he did rather well. But to have him back permanently is a mistake I think.

I think others are better suited and we might just draft a back that fits the bill.

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[Wolftone]

Do we really want him as a defender? Ideally I’d have him off a wing but does he have the tank? Wingers need to get the ball 30 times he struggles getting it 15!

He will never get a tank if we continue to play him in the back pocket

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[Wolftone]

Well if he doesn't have the tank for the wing, you don't want him in defence, and you've decreed he's not a small forward (despite him going at pick 5 as a small fwd/mid)... I guess he could ruck at VFL level, we might need it.

Like you I believe he is a small forward.

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[Punts]

Campbell is on struggle street trying to find a spot at senior level imo

Doesn’t get big enough numbers to be a mid

 

[Wolftone]

I have a feeling we are staying on the good side with the Dees. Not sure why. Just a niggle in the gut. Nice we p*ssed GWS and the Crows off.

That might come back to bite us next year when we need to bid on 2 Academy players

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[ShireSwan]

In 1 year, if Buddy and Reid go, we'll have 3 KPFs all probably playing in seniors and none in reserves. But at worst, if injury hit, you can make do with Heeney as a target, or given we'll have at least a couple of KPDs in reserves (2 of Francis/Gould/Edwards), you could play one of them, and swing a McCartin or Blakey forward at a pinch.

In 1 year, we'll have Ladhams as a ruck, and then IDK, McAndrew? I suspect a re-shuffle like the above would be less worse than rucking Amartey full-time (since McLean doesn't even ruck at reserves level really).

Put it simply, we can cover a KPF injury more than a ruck absence. So I'd prefer Barnett who is a ruck, but can also go forward. Except Barnett will be gone, so I'm happy with Keeler if that's the best we think we can do, or just going a pure ruck later on. Feel like we should have addressed both this year with Barnett and 1 of Keeler/Gruzewski (we probably had that chance last night, not any more).

Maybe we can use the Dawk's 2023 3rd rounder to jump back up the order if we include our 27.

Pretty unlikely. More likely we hope he is there at 27, and if not there is that younger ruck someone mentioned the other day we could pick up with our next pick. Can anyone remember his name from a dozen or two pages back?
If we got Hayes and that other young ruck, that'd be a pretty good haul.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

He will never get a tank if we continue to play him in the back pocket

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Should never have been near a back pocket. Horse doesn’t get many things wrong that was one he did