List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[jackster83]

On our ruck stocks, I think you only have to look at Geelong's premiership side this year. Stanley and Blicavs are not really what I'd call traditional lumbering ruck types, but extremely mobile and able to run all day. Granted that Sydney only had Hickey (prob a mistake on their part in the GF), but I think all you need as a ruckman is someone to break even - as long as you have a great midfield (which we appear to be slowly building). Even previous GF's, Gawn didn't have a great GF, but Jackson was a much more mobile option and was able to get on top. WC v Collingwood in 2018...WC employed two scrubbers (Vardy and Lycett) against Grundy (who dominated hitouts), but WC were still able to get across the line. My take is that clubs are more likely to select more mobile, multi-positional options now than the previous lumbering giants. I'd like us to try a Murray - with his crash and bash style (or God-forbid McAsey if he comes good) as potential rucks to backup RoB (whose time on ground should be reduced in future hopefully). TT of course is another option, resting up fwd.

Geelong also had Ceglar (traded in), Neale (drafted in 2020) and Conway (drafted in 2021).

Funnily enough they also drafted another ruck this year, so unlike us, they've not been sitting on their hands regarding their ruck stocks.

 

[Mostyn]

I would really hope that’s not true, but like others have said I fear it might be

C'mon, that's not true.

They're winning an SANFL flag for the 150 people that turn up?

If nothing else, they don't want to win because they don't want the SANFL being vindictive with them in the future. Self interest said they don't want to win.

I think they planned to keep Turner, but they also planned to trade Crouch, Sholl and others. Plans changed as circumstances did

 

[George Kramer]

On our ruck stocks, I think you only have to look at Geelong's premiership side this year. Stanley and Blicavs are not really what I'd call traditional lumbering ruck types, but extremely mobile and able to run all day. Granted that Sydney only had Hickey (prob a mistake on their part in the GF), but I think all you need as a ruckman is someone to break even - as long as you have a great midfield (which we appear to be slowly building). Even previous GF's, Gawn didn't have a great GF, but Jackson was a much more mobile option and was able to get on top. WC v Collingwood in 2018...WC employed two scrubbers (Vardy and Lycett) against Grundy (who dominated hitouts), but WC were still able to get across the line. My take is that clubs are more likely to select more mobile, multi-positional options now than the previous lumbering giants. I'd like us to try a Murray - with his crash and bash style (or God-forbid McAsey if he comes good) as potential rucks to backup RoB (whose time on ground should be reduced in future hopefully). TT of course is another option, resting up fwd.

No one is saying we needed to draft another lumbering ruckman

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How many clubs have developed their own ruckman, from "project" ....in other words not the Jackson / Grundy type picks ......versus Clubs that have "poached" a Ruckman, after being developed ?

In the last two years ....poached ruckmen include

Meek, Mabior Chol

18

Mabior Chol

Age

27

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

, Tom Campbell

29

Tom Campbell

Age

33

Ht

201cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

17.0

5star

D

5.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.0

1star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.0

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.0

3star

CL

1.2

4star

HO

13.2

5star

, Callum Coleman-Jones

21

Callum Coleman-jones

Age

25

Ht

200cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.0

1star

, Darcy Fort

32

Darcy Fort

Age

31

Ht

204cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.6

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

2.9

3star

M

1.9

2star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.2

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

3.2

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

3star

G

0.2

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.2

4star

, Ceglar, Peter Ladhams

19

Peter Ladhams

Age

27

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.8

5star

CL

3.3

5star

HO

15.0

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

12.0

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

16.0

5star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

8.2

5star

CL

3.2

5star

HO

14.8

5star

, Max Lynch

That's just in 2 years

 

[jackster83]

How many clubs have developed their own ruckman, from "project" ....in other words not the Jackson / Grundy type picks ......versus Clubs that have "poached" a Ruckman, after being developed ?

In the last two years ....poached ruckmen include

Meek, Mabior Chol, Tom Campbell, Callum Coleman-Jones, Darcy Fort, Ceglar, Peter Ladhams, Max Lynch

That's just in 2 years

Off the top of my head: Gawn, Darcy, McInerney, O'Brien, R.Marshall.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Off the top of my head: Gawn, Darcy, McInerney, O'Brien, R.Marshall.

Not many are there over 6-8 years .....compared to poaching numbers over 2 years

Lots of failures .....so you really have to pick your mark ....remember when we continually drafted / traded KPF's, turning them over in rapid time, trying to find someone above ave

 

[George Kramer]

Off the top of my head: Gawn, Darcy, McInerney, O'Brien, R.Marshall.

English, Pitonaett, Draper, Nic Nat

 

[George Kramer]

Not many are there over 6-8 years .....compared to poaching numbers over 2 years

Lots of failures .....so you really have to pick your mark ....remember when we continually drafted / traded KPF's, turning them over in rapid time, trying to find someone above ave

They haven’t had to poach, they’ve got ruckman. Plus I’ve added names. Also hasn’t stopped those teams from drafting more ruckman.

Also there’s been movement in nearly every position on the trade table, so should we abolish the draft? Just trade players in.

Rucks unfairly get singled out because it’s an isolated position

 

[Danger Zone]

English, Pitonaett, Draper, Nic Nat

Pittonet was traded from Hawthorn but the rest stand.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

English, Pitonaett, Draper, Nic Nat

No ....the question was not Pick #1 Ruckmen, Grundy, English types .....but Project / Developing Rucks

Draper ...yes
Pittonet ...No, he was recruited as a KPP, but was thrown into the ruck as an "in case of emergency" .....similar to Finlayson, who also wasn't traded as a Ruckman

 

[George Kramer]

No ....the question was not Pick #1 Ruckmen, Grundy, English types .....but Project / Developing Rucks

Draper ...yes
Pittonet ...No, he was recruited as a KPP, but was thrown into the ruck as an "in case of emergency" .....similar to Finlayson, who also wasn't traded as a Ruckman

No the question is drafting ruckman period, other clubs are doing it and we are not, must be because we do good at this football thing with all our success

 

[Mutineer]

Off the top of my head: Gawn, Darcy, McInerney, O'Brien, R.Marshall.

Rohan Marshall already had plenty of development put into him at the North Ballarat Roosters working with former Geelong/Richmond and 4 time VFL premiership ruck Oren Stephenson. How he missed getting drafted in 2 successive drafts with his athleticism, skill set and versatility will always be a mystery to me after dominating for the Rebels, Vic Country and then playing some really good VFL footy for the now defunct North Ballarat Roosters VFL team with a mix of ruck, CHF and CHB.

 

[1990crow]

Adelaide - O'Brien - Developed
Brisbane - McInerney - Developed
Carlton - De Koning - Developed (Pittonet traded but see DK as they're future)
Collingwood - Cameron (traded)
Essendon - Draper - Developed
Fremantle - Darcy (Developed)
Geelong - Blicavs (Developed / Stanley - traded)
GC - Witt's (traded)
GWS - Preuss (traded)
Hawthorn - Reeves (Developed)
Melbourne - Gawn (Developed)
North - Goldstein (Developed)
Port Power - Lycett (traded) / Hayes (Developed)
Richmond - Nankervis (traded)
St Kilda - Marshall (developed)
Sydney - Hickey (traded)
West Coast - NicNat (Developed) / Williams (Developed)
Dogs - English (Developed)

11/18 Clubs developed their own ruckman with possibly Port and Geelong adding to that number in the next 12-18 months.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

Geelong also had Ceglar (traded in), Neale (drafted in 2020) and Conway (drafted in 2021).

Funnily enough they also drafted another ruck this year, so unlike us, they've not been sitting on their hands regarding their ruck stocks.

Agreed...backup / insurance only though...not best 22. The last two clearly recognising the other three are either already 32 or approaching it.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

No one is saying we needed to draft another lumbering ruckman

That just seems to be what we do, however. Granted that Strachan is a bit more mobile than RoB, but definitely not a really mobile ruck / follower type.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

How many clubs have developed their own ruckman, from "project" ....in other words not the Jackson / Grundy type picks ......versus Clubs that have "poached" a Ruckman, after being developed ?

In the last two years ....poached ruckmen include

Meek, Mabior Chol, Tom Campbell, Callum Coleman-Jones, Darcy Fort, Ceglar, Peter Ladhams, Max Lynch

That's just in 2 years

There would be no rucks at all if clubs followed that logic

 

[WaynesWorld19]

There would be no rucks at all if clubs followed that logic

It’s an interesting dilemma ….. do you allow young 18 yo rucks to go back into State Leagues to develop …. because it seems that until they’re 22 YO , they’re pretty unproductive

Mutineer who was that WWT ruck drafted a couple of years ago ?

 

[Dangarman]

gibbs certainly, he was actually still on the list but not needed at the club in any capacity at all. Why we didnt want him around for leadership is anyone's guess. But just ask yourself why Brown would choose to dump $300k instead of rolling up to the club and rehabbing all year. Footballers hang on for as long as possible as almost none are walking out and into a commensurate wage. We needed the list spot, so he had the upper hand and there's no way he discounts the contract meaningfully.

I presume footballers pay tax. According to paycalculator.com.au, after tax on $600k is roughly $326k , and on $300k is about $182k.

Given a choice between not working for $182k net or busting my gut for $326k net I know what I would choose...

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

 

[Scorpus]

That's a huge relief

 

[Danger in Texas]

Good luck to him. Honestly think we did him a disservice by drafting him, wasted both his and our time

 

[1990crow]

Good luck to him. Honestly think we did him a disservice by drafting him, wasted both his and our time

Absolutely ridiculous by us.

 

[Golumless]

Good luck to him. Honestly think we did him a disservice by drafting him, wasted both his and our time

Without question that we wasted our time, however, I doubt we wasted his.

After all, at least Brett can now say he was on an AFL list, and I assume there are some additional perks with being in that environment for a few months that he wouldn't had access to at Glenelg.

 

[relapse]

No the question is drafting ruckman period, other clubs are doing it and we are not, must be because we do good at this football thing with all our success

Especially considering that ruckman naturally take a while to develop.

From drafting it's about 3-4 years before they're AFL ready.

The scary thing is that not going after another ruckman could mean that the club rates ROB so much that we don't think we need to worry about developing anyone else yet.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Without question that we wasted our time, however, I doubt we wasted his.

After all, at least Brett can now say he was on an AFL list, and I assume there are some additional perks with being in that environment for a few months that he wouldn't had access to at Glenelg.

I guess so (at least he didn’t have to move states), but I reckon he would’ve hoped for more of a guarantee given he didn’t exactly get a chance to prove himself (injured for half his time with us)