List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Would be a great get for Port Adelaide

I thought I heard Cripps going back to St Kilda? So that’ll work

 

[Thetrader15]

Please no, I hope he stays clear from us. Awful list manager.

Wasn't he being applauded in 2019 when he traded in Howard, Ryder, Butler and Hill, then Higgins and Crouch the next year?

How the wheel turns!

 

[Concussion test]

Would be a great get for Port Adelaide

I'm hoping there's a touch of sarcasm in your post.

 

[Gtowncrow]

We need to keep going until we have a good midfield

Is the ruckman considered part of the midfield?
Ours needs a massive improvement in 2023.

 

[WeeBlake]

I’m in the Dont-Need-A-Great-Ruckman-An-OK-One-Is-Enough-To-Win-Flags camp

 

[Big Dub]

Is the ruckman considered part of the midfield?
Ours needs a massive improvement in 2023.

I get that there is a fair bit of heat for ROB at the moment, because his 2022 was a decent step back from his 2021.

But Zero Hanger just rated him as the 4th best ruck in the comp and he's the 8th best rated ruck in the game statistically (Stats Insider AFL Player Ratings).

Geelong also just won a flag with the 19th and 28th ranked ruckmen.

It would be good to get a young project ruck in the next couple of years, but it's not urgent. ROB is more than good enough for now.

 

[GreyCrow]

I’m in the Dont-Need-A-Great-Ruckman-An-OK-One-Is-Enough-To-Win-Flags camp

Im-In-The-Dont-Need-A-Great-Ruckman-As-Long-As-He-Takes-Marks-Around-The-Ground-Especially-The-Right-Hand-Point-Kick-Out-Camp

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I’m in the Dont-Need-A-Great-Ruckman-An-OK-One-Is-Enough-To-Win-Flags camp

I agree, although I'd like one that isn't a total liability in general play

 

[Apsaalooke]

Im-In-The-Dont-Need-A-Great-Ruckman-As-Long-As-He-Takes-Marks-Around-The-Ground-Especially-The-Right-Hand-Point-Kick-Out-Camp

And-Can-Kick-A-Football-Without-Looking-Like-A-Newborn-Giraffe-Taking-Their-First-Step-In-Life

 

[Mostyn]

And-Can-Kick-A-Football-Without-Looking-Like-A-Newborn-Giraffe-Taking-Their-First-Step-In-Life

Don't really care how it looks. It mostly works now.

I DO care that he starts taking marks again. When that was happening, he was genuinely one of the better rucks in the league. Without it, he offers a lot less.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Don't really care how it looks. It mostly works now.

I DO care that he starts taking marks again. When that was happening, he was genuinely one of the better rucks in the league. Without it, he offers a lot less.

This is the key for ROB as his marking is what makes him a valuable player.

If like in 2022 he is going to drop more marks than he takes, we may as well play someone else.

We need to be more ruthless to drop him if he has a patch of poor form & make him properly earn his way back.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Don't really care how it looks. It mostly works now.

I DO care that he starts taking marks again. When that was happening, he was genuinely one of the better rucks in the league. Without it, he offers a lot less.

Bingo. Contested marking was, and once again needs to be his one-wood

I’d argue if we had the contested marking version of ROB last year, we would’ve won a couple more games. If he’s going to be a factor in helping us rise up the ladder over the next few years, he has to get that part of his game going again

 

[AFC979810]

Bingo. Contested marking was, and once again needs to be his one-wood

I’d argue if we had the contested marking version of ROB last year, we would’ve won a couple more games. If he’s going to be a factor in helping us rise up the ladder over the next few years, he has to get that part of his game going again

The stats just don't back this up.

2019 Season - 1.33 CM per game. 24 in 18 games - #50 in the FL for Contested marks.
2020 B&F season - 1.9 CM per game. 33 in 17 games - #5 in the AFL for contested marks. (shorter games amplify this).
2021 Season - 1.9 CM per game. 38 CM in 20 games - #17 in the AFL for contested marks.
2022 Season - 1.6 CM per game. - 31 CM in 20 games - #20 in the AFL for contested marks.

I really don't think that one less contested mark from ROB every three games cost us a couple of games.

His marking in 2022 was down on 2020/2021, but lets not act like he has every been this marking force across the AFL.

2019 Season - 3.3 Marks per game (20th at Adelaide, 372nd in the AFL)
2020 B&F Season - 3.76 marks per game (3rd at Adelaide, 127th in the AFL). *shorter games amplify this.
2021 Season - 3.55 marks per game (14th at Adelaide, 299th in the AFL)
2022 Season - 2.65 marks per game. (24th at Adelaide, 368th in the AFL)

His 2020 season was very good, but IMO it was amplified by how F*Kn terrible everyone else on our team was.

 

[Danger in Texas]

The stats just don't back this up.

2019 Season - 1.33 CM per game. 24 in 18 games - #50 in the FL for Contested marks.
2020 B&F season - 1.9 CM per game. 33 in 17 games - #5 in the AFL for contested marks. (shorter games amplify this).
2021 Season - 1.9 CM per game. 38 CM in 20 games - #17 in the AFL for contested marks.
2022 Season - 1.6 CM per game. - 31 CM in 20 games - #20 in the AFL for contested marks.

I really don't think that one less contested mark from ROB every three games cost us a couple of games.

His marking in 2022 was down on 2020/2021, but lets not act like he has every been this marking force across the AFL.

2019 Season - 3.3 Marks per game (20th at Adelaide, 372nd in the AFL)
2020 B&F Season - 3.76 marks per game (3rd at Adelaide, 127th in the AFL). *shorter games amplify this.
2021 Season - 3.55 marks per game (14th at Adelaide, 299th in the AFL)
2022 Season - 2.65 marks per game. (24th at Adelaide, 368th in the AFL)

His 2020 season was very good, but IMO it was amplified by how F*Kn terrible everyone else on our team was.

Dropping from being the best contested marking pure ruck to a just ‘okay’ marking presence is pretty significant, for someone who doesn’t provide a whole lot else. If he averaged his 2020 game time-adjusted numbers last year, he would’ve been 3rd in the league

Re: the games lost - maybe the word I’m looking for is ‘inconsistent’. It feels like ROB’s marking was there once in a while, but then would go a couple of games where he just had no presence whatsoever. Took just two CMs in three games from R2-4 (none in a small loss to Ess), none in R7-8 before he got dropped, only one between R12 and 14’s two games, none from R18-20 for instance (inc. the small loss to the Pies). As stated, he’s not providing a whole lot else if his marking isn’t there, so he needs to consistently keep this up

 

[Tex Danger]

Dropping from being the best contested marking pure ruck to a just ‘okay’ marking presence is pretty significant, for someone who doesn’t provide a whole lot else. If he averaged his 2020 game time-adjusted numbers last year, he would’ve been 3rd in the league

Re: the games lost - maybe the word I’m looking for is ‘inconsistent’. It feels like ROB’s marking was there once in a while, but then would go a couple of games where he just had no presence whatsoever. Took just two CMs in three games from R2-4 (none in a small loss to Ess), none in R7-8 before he got dropped, only one between R12 and 14’s two games, none from R18-20 for instance (inc. the small loss to the Pies). As stated, he’s not providing a whole lot else if his marking isn’t there, so he needs to consistently keep this up

100% agree this is the biggest key to ROB impacting games

The other thing he does well when on is pressure after the ruck contest if the bell remains in dispute

Stats aside, if he is doing those 2 things he passes the eye test

 

[Mutineer]

Dropping from being the best contested marking pure ruck to a just ‘okay’ marking presence is pretty significant, for someone who doesn’t provide a whole lot else. If he averaged his 2020 game time-adjusted numbers last year, he would’ve been 3rd in the league

Re: the games lost - maybe the word I’m looking for is ‘inconsistent’. It feels like ROB’s marking was there once in a while, but then would go a couple of games where he just had no presence whatsoever. Took just two CMs in three games from R2-4 (none in a small loss to Ess), none in R7-8 before he got dropped, only one between R12 and 14’s two games, none from R18-20 for instance (inc. the small loss to the Pies). As stated, he’s not providing a whole lot else if his marking isn’t there, so he needs to consistently keep this up

His best marking was playing the defensive kick behind the play role where he saved numerous oppo attacks, however his role seemed to change this season playing more around the contest or even forward of the play. Had to be a coaching move I think?

 

[cleanhands]

His best marking was playing the defensive kick behind the play role where he saved numerous oppo attacks, however his role seemed to change this season playing more around the contest or even forward of the play. Had to be a coaching move I think?

Something he would have developed playing CHB early in his career

 

[1970crow]

His best marking was playing the defensive kick behind the play role where he saved numerous oppo attacks, however his role seemed to change this season playing more around the contest or even forward of the play. Had to be a coaching move I think?

Yep, a bad one. Too often he was competing with other forwards deep in our 50. And although it’s not just this year, him sitting 15m off the **** contest in our forward 50 is absolutely absurd use of him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

His best marking was playing the defensive kick behind the play role where he saved numerous oppo attacks, however his role seemed to change this season playing more around the contest or even forward of the play. Had to be a coaching move I think?

Agreed .....where his contested marking was needed most, around the Wings ..this is where he suffered

Those midfield contested marks are invaluable .....provide an outlet from DEF & sets the attack up, where players can start their offensive attack with confidence

 

[Mutineer]

Something he would have developed playing CHB early in his career

Only played part of one season at CHB for the Cannons when Jake Lever went down with his ACL, luckily the Cannons had another reasonably good ruckman Mark Kovacevic who went onto play VFL for Coburg, another highly intelligent guy like ROB, now heads up the Kangas finance Department. ROB's uch the same now as he was as a junior, highly competitive but not overly endowed with super footballing talent....not many ruckmen are..

 

[AFC979810]

Dropping from being the best contested marking pure ruck to a just ‘okay’ marking presence is pretty significant, for someone who doesn’t provide a whole lot else. If he averaged his 2020 game time-adjusted numbers last year, he would’ve been 3rd in the league

Apart from being 7th in hit-outs in 2019, 6th in 2020, 6th in 2021 and 2nd in 2022 - which is his primary role.

Re: the games lost - maybe the word I’m looking for is ‘inconsistent’. It feels like ROB’s marking was there once in a while, but then would go a couple of games where he just had no presence whatsoever. Took just two CMs in three games from R2-4 (none in a small loss to Ess), none in R7-8 before he got dropped, only one between R12 and 14’s two games, none from R18-20 for instance (inc. the small loss to the Pies). As stated, he’s not providing a whole lot else if his marking isn’t there, so he needs to consistently keep this up

That was ROB in 2020 too.

2020 - 8 games with 0-1 contested marks. 5 games with 2-3 contested marks. 4 games with 4 contested marks.

2022 - 10 games with 0-1 contested marks. 9 games with 2-3 contested marks. 1 game with 4+ contested marks.

My take is that ROB is nowhere as good as everyone thinks he was in 2020 and nowhere near as bad as people are saying he was in 2022. Of all the positions we need improvement on in 2023 - Ruck is waaaaay down the list.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Apart from being 7th in hit-outs in 2019, 6th in 2020, 6th in 2021 and 2nd in 2022 - which is his primary role.



That was ROB in 2020 too.

2020 - 8 games with 0-1 contested marks. 5 games with 2-3 contested marks. 4 games with 4 contested marks.

2022 - 10 games with 0-1 contested marks. 9 games with 2-3 contested marks. 1 game with 4+ contested marks.

My take is that ROB is nowhere as good as everyone thinks he was in 2020 and nowhere near as bad as people are saying he was in 2022. Of all the positions we need improvement on in 2023 - Ruck is waaaaay down the list.

Isn’t there a stat which shows he’s in the lower echelon of regular ruckmen when it comes to HO’s to advantage? Something like 29%? If that’s his primarily provides, we should be looking for a new ruck more urgently than I thought

Fair enough if that’s what you think of the level ROB needs to play at, though. His 2022 effort just didn’t pass the eye test, for mine - well down on areas where he has been more effective in the past

 

[AFC979810]

Isn’t there a stat which shows he’s in the lower echelon of regular ruckmen when it comes to HO’s to advantage? Something like 29%? If that’s his primarily provides, we should be looking for a new ruck more urgently than I thought

Happy to look at it.

But HO to advantage is a tough one - especially when our midfield is full of donkeys. Its widely acknowledged our midfield group is rather shite.

Unless of course you are expecting him to be the ultimate ruck rover.

Fair enough if that’s what you think of the level ROB needs to play at, though. His 2022 effort just didn’t pass the eye test, for mine - well down on areas where he has been more effective in the past

I just think if you pulled together a wish list for improvement for the AFC in 2023 - Ruckman would be at the very bottom.

 

[Mostyn]

Apart from being 7th in hit-outs in 2019, 6th in 2020, 6th in 2021 and 2nd in 2022 - which is his primary role.



That was ROB in 2020 too.

2020 - 8 games with 0-1 contested marks. 5 games with 2-3 contested marks. 4 games with 4 contested marks.

2022 - 10 games with 0-1 contested marks. 9 games with 2-3 contested marks. 1 game with 4+ contested marks.

My take is that ROB is nowhere as good as everyone thinks he was in 2020 and nowhere near as bad as people are saying he was in 2022. Of all the positions we need improvement on in 2023 - Ruck is waaaaay down the list.

Good post, completely agree.

We need to improve, but it's nowhere near the biggest priority.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Agreed .....where his contested marking was needed most, around the Wings ..this is where he suffered

Those midfield contested marks are invaluable .....provide an outlet from DEF & sets the attack up, where players can start their offensive attack with confidence

Hmmm, maybe a radical move would be to play Dawson on a wing?