List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Sanders]

He’s the football director. He’s had a major say in our football department and the list. He is part of the club and when he refers to the club it should be “we” not “they”. This is another example of his media hat conflicting. “They” makes it look like he’s distancing himself from the mess and that’s he’s an outsider.

The other issue is the actual criticism, he’s not criticised selection or game plan or effort that can changed. He’s criticised their skills, does he think that’s going to improve overnight? Is the list that he’s helped form all going to be replaced for the game against Port or are they going to all of a sudden learn how to kick and handball?

His “job” is to help the board hold senior management to account. He’s not involved in the running of the club on a day to day or operational level

In that regard he is no different to the finance or HR guy bringing specialist skills to the board, so that the board can fulfill their executive oversight function

 

[Sanders]

Are our board members paid by the club?

No.

 

[Sanders]

Indeed, but would not board members and committee chairs have a code of conduct, or are they unaccountable?

We rarely disagree, but I can't see why you think his public comments are OK. He can go for his life behind closed doors.

They would or should have a code of conduct. It’s not clear that expressing displeasure in the teams performance would be a breach

I’m sure plenty is being raised in private too.

My guess (and I’m guessing) is that this is part of supporter/member engagement to let fans know that they share our frustrations. That saw what we did

Remember it was never, EVER, part of the rebuild plan to suck like we have. It was never intended that we fall so low, it was never meant to look like it did in 2020. That wasn’t the plan, so to still be so deep in the shit into year 3 is alarming

Our rebuild was expected to be softer and more gentle than the crash landing into the side of a mountain it’s turned into.

Roo is telling everyone that this isn’t ok. That the board is as shocked and shaken as we are.

Heck, arch ambassador Graham Cornes wrote a piece a couple of days echoing what I’d already said about the first half against Freo being alarmingly bad.

Now Roo is saying the same thing

The alarm bells are going off around Matthew “Robert Shaw 2.0” Nicks

 

[aabp1978]

No.

Roo is part of the board that ultimately approves the hiring of the coach, the recruiting team, the list manager. It may be a volunteer position, but it still comes with that power. So he is indeed ultimately responsible for putting the right people in place…which as a board member - and particularly the one appointed to provide guidance in relation to all football related matters - he has clearly failed to do…

 

[George Kramer]

His “job” is to help the board hold senior management to account. He’s not involved in the running of the club on a day to day or operational level

In that regard he is no different to the finance or HR guy bringing specialist skills to the board, so that the board can fulfill their executive oversight function

His specialist skills are football. So if the football sucks and he has had a say in the appointment of senior management and also sits on the list management committee, then is he within his right to criticise "them" publicly? Or should he look inward and think, shit I had a bit to do with this mess. First off by getting his mate Burton appointed, then being involved in the appointment of Nicks, to having a say in which players we let go like Lever, Gov and Greenwood which he owned up to publicly on MMM when he explained why we did. Then he used the words "we" not "they".

As for the actual criticism, it doesn't help at all. By criticising players skills, its not going to make them skilful over night, if anything its going to make them even more cautious with their slow ball movement which already sucks. He didn't criticise the game plan, selection or effort all things that can quickly be changed and gain a response to his criticism. He is a buffoon and has publicly shown this many times, dating back to when he told members to support another club, lucky he did though otherwise we wouldn't have had a review and his mate wouldn't have been fired.

 

[George Kramer]

Roo is part of the board that ultimately approves the hiring of the coach, the recruiting team, the list manager. It may be a volunteer position, but it still comes with that power. So he is indeed ultimately responsible for putting the right people in place…which as a board member - and particularly the one appointed to provide guidance in relation to all football related matters - he has clearly failed to do…

He is on the list committee....

 

[George Kramer]

They would or should have a code of conduct. It’s not clear that expressing displeasure in the teams performance would be a breach

I’m sure plenty is being raised in private too.

My guess (and I’m guessing) is that this is part of supporter/member engagement to let fans know that they share our frustrations. That saw what we did

Remember it was never, EVER, part of the rebuild plan to suck like we have. It was never intended that we fall so low, it was never meant to look like it did in 2020. That wasn’t the plan, so to still be so deep in the shit into year 3 is alarming

Our rebuild was expected to be softer and more gentle than the crash landing into the side of a mountain it’s turned into.

Roo is telling everyone that this isn’t ok. That the board is as shocked and shaken as we are.

Heck, arch ambassador Graham Cornes wrote a piece a couple of days echoing what I’d already said about the first half against Freo being alarmingly bad.

Now Roo is saying the same thing

The alarm bells are going off around Matthew “Robert Shaw 2.0” Nicks

Cornes criticised game plan and selections too and Cornes hasn't had an involvement in our current plight.

As for Nicks, Roo would have been part of the decision making to have just extended his contract.

 

[Sanders]

Roo is part of the board that ultimately approves the hiring of the coach, the recruiting team, the list manager. It may be a volunteer position, but it still comes with that power. So he is indeed ultimately responsible for putting the right people in place…which as a board member - and particularly the one appointed to provide guidance in relation to all football related matters - he has clearly failed to do…

That’s right. They approve.

And they fire

 

[Sanders]

His specialist skills are football. So if the football sucks and he has had a say in the appointment of senior management and also sits on the list management committee, then is he within his right to criticise "them" publicly? Or should he look inward and think, shit I had a bit to do with this mess. First off by getting his mate Burton appointed, then being involved in the appointment of Nicks, to having a say in which players we let go like Lever, Gov and Greenwood which he owned up to publicly on MMM when he explained why we did. Then he used the words "we" not "they".

As for the actual criticism, it doesn't help at all. By criticising players skills, its not going to make them skilful over night, if anything its going to make them even more cautious with their slow ball movement which already sucks. He didn't criticise the game plan, selection or effort all things that can quickly be changed and gain a response to his criticism. He is a buffoon and has publicly shown this many times, dating back to when he told members to support another club, lucky he did though otherwise we wouldn't have had a review and his mate wouldn't have been fired.

I’d think he’s been there awhile and it’s time for fresh eyes. But you’re inventing responsibilities that just aren’t there

Hiring someone doesn’t make you responsible for their day to day performance.

Maybe our players have been having too many man hugs and soya vanilla bean lattes in the coaches office, and perhaps a rocket will do them good.

Braiding each other’s hair isn’t working

 

[Sanders]

As for Nicks, Roo would have been part of the decision making to have just extended his contract.

I’m sure he was. And that might be why they’re laying the ground work for their unhappiness

I’m sure there are all sorts of triggers and outs in that contract, that was designed to take public scrutiny away from the coach

 

[George Kramer]

I’d think he’s been there awhile and it’s time for fresh eyes. But you’re inventing responsibilities that just aren’t there

Hiring someone doesn’t make you responsible for their day to day performance.

Maybe our players have been having too many man hugs and soya vanilla bean lattes in the coaches office, and perhaps a rocket will do them good.

Braiding each other’s hair isn’t working

C'mon, Roo was the AFC prior to our downhill spiral and he started to lose some control. He had a direct hand in the appointment of Walsh, Pyke and Nicks, he was on the coach selection panel and he was a part of having Nick's contract extended a few months back.

He had a major say in Burton coming to the club. Do you think it was co-incidental that they are best mates, that Roo goes on MMM a few weeks before his appointment and states their families had just been away together and Burton wants to come home? Fagan knew nothing about football and would have listened to Roo and Chapman was Chapman.

Roo is on the list management committee and I am pretty sure he chairs it. He had Dawson over his place for a barbie, thats how involved he is in recruitment. He justified the letting go of quality players based on $$. His hands are all over the state of our list.

Now when it comes to criticising its "them". All because he has conflicted roles. He has a history of putting his foot in it with his dual roles.

It doesn't matter if our players have to harden up, he didn't tell them to go in harder or try harder. He said they can't kick or handball. None of this will change with his criticism and we are only 2 games into the season, there is a long way to go if he intends on getting new players and replace the current list he has had a hand in building.

 

[jackster83]

That’s right. They approve.

And they fire

Surely our recruiting and list management people would have to be in the gun. They've been around for a long time and our list is still shite.

 

[Sanders]

C'mon, Roo was the AFC prior to our downhill spiral and he started to lose some control. He had a direct hand in the appointment of Walsh, Pyke and Nicks, he was on the coach selection panel and he was a part of having Nick's contract extended a few months back.

He had a major say in Burton coming to the club. Do you think it was co-incidental that they are best mates, that Roo goes on MMM a few weeks before his appointment and states their families had just been away together and Burton wants to come home? Fagan knew nothing about football and would have listened to Roo and Chapman was Chapman.

Roo is on the list management committee and I am pretty sure he chairs it. He had Dawson over his place for a barbie, thats how involved he is in recruitment. He justified the letting go of quality players based on $$. His hands are all over the state of our list.

Now when it comes to criticising its "them". All because he has conflicted roles. He has a history of putting his foot in it with his dual roles.

It doesn't matter if our players have to harden up, he didn't tell them to go in harder or try harder. He said they can't kick or handball. None of this will change with his criticism and we are only 2 games into the season, there is a long way to go if he intends on getting new players and replace the current list he has had a hand in building.

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

We as a club have sat idly by for too long whilst mediocrity was mailed in, year after year. It why supporter backlash finally led to the big 2019 review.

And now you’re unhappy that the board is demanding performance from the people paid to bring it?

Is this what Stockholm syndrome looks like? Where you’ve become so damaged by this rebuild that you’re worried about your tormentors?

 

[George Kramer]

Surely our recruiting and list management people would have to be in the gun. They've been around for a long time and our list is still shite.

Roo sits on the list management committee....

 

[Sanders]

Surely our recruiting and list management people would have to be in the gun. They've been around for a long time and our list is still shite.

I’d ****ing hope so

 

[George Kramer]

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

We as a club have sat idly by for too long whilst mediocrity was mailed in, year after year. It why supporter backlash finally led to the big 2019 review.

And now you’re unhappy that the board is demanding performance from the people paid to bring it?

Is this what Stockholm syndrome looks like? Where you’ve become so damaged by this rebuild that you’re worried about your tormentors?

Well you should because it was pretty clear.

I am unhappy that the person sitting on the board who is the football director and who has played a big part in our mess, thinks he isn't partly responsible and criticises "them". Besides if he truly had a clue, where is the criticism of the game plan and selections?

 

[Mutineer]

C'mon, Roo was the AFC prior to our downhill spiral and he started to lose some control. He had a direct hand in the appointment of Walsh, Pyke and Nicks, he was on the coach selection panel and he was a part of having Nick's contract extended a few months back.

He had a major say in Burton coming to the club. Do you think it was co-incidental that they are best mates, that Roo goes on MMM a few weeks before his appointment and states their families had just been away together and Burton wants to come home? Fagan knew nothing about football and would have listened to Roo and Chapman was Chapman.

Roo is on the list management committee and I am pretty sure he chairs it. He had Dawson over his place for a barbie, thats how involved he is in recruitment. He justified the letting go of quality players based on $$. His hands are all over the state of our list.

Now when it comes to criticising its "them". All because he has conflicted roles. He has a history of putting his foot in it with his dual roles.

It doesn't matter if our players have to harden up, he didn't tell them to go in harder or try harder. He said they can't kick or handball. None of this will change with his criticism and we are only 2 games into the season, there is a long way to go if he intends on getting new players and replace the current list he has had a hand in building.

He was talking about the Pies game and he's absolutely bang on, the team as a whole were way way down on basic skills. If that was the first time you'd ever watched the Crows play you would have had to agree.

You're taking his comment out of context, it wasn't meant as a general comment. Why our basic skills were so shitfull in that game I don't know but take Schoenberg's kicking on the weekend, on past performances I would have classed him as an above average field kick, not elite but at least competent especially with his short game yet it was diabolically bad in that game.

Almost all players were way way down on skills in that game but even our better skilled players were all way off on the day. I can't explain it can you?

Only thing I think may have fed into that was the absolute high pressure the Pies put on our players and with the limited prep some of our players had with so few pre-season games to tune up and quite a few were coming off recent Covid issues?

 

[Sanders]

Well you should because it was pretty clear.

I am unhappy that the person sitting on the board who is the football director and who has played a big part in our mess, thinks he isn't partly responsible and criticises "them". Besides if he truly had a clue, where is the criticism of the game plan and selections?

Because you misunderstand his role and assign greater responsibility to the mess than is due.

You’re confusing the executive with management

 

[Mutineer]

MATT CROUCH on SEN SA Breakfast (31.3.22)

Adelaide Crows midfield MATT CROUCH joined SEN SA Breakfast to discuss his return to the team after an injury-riddled 2021. Matt also addresses Mark Ricciuto's strong comments and previews the Showdown.

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[George Kramer]

Because you misunderstand his role and assign greater responsibility to the mess than is due.

You’re confusing the executive with management

Nah. Roo ain't just a board member, hes more involved than that. Burton for starters. On list management committee, involved in which players to keep, he's acknowledged that. Involved in the committee selecting our coaches. Involved in the hiring and keeping of key underperforming management.

Plus his criticism whilst accurate doesn't cover all the issues plus wont achieve anything. Where is the criticism of the game plan and selection? That truly would place pressure on Nicks.

 

[MrBarry]

His comments are fine. He’s not involved in the day to day workings of the footy dept

I'm not a fan of him referring to us as "they" considering he had a direct hand in a lot of decisions around the club.

It's like he's trying to make people forget he's actually part of it.

 

[AFC979810]

I'm not a fan of him referring to us as "they" considering he had a direct hand in a lot of decisions around the club.

It's like he's trying to make people forget he's actually part of it.

Its reading too much into IMO. He is a commentator in the media. He can't say "we" when he wears his media hat.

 

[MrBarry]

Its reading too much into IMO. He is a commentator in the media. He can't say "we" when he wears his media hat.

I'm fine with him sinking the boots into the club when we deserve it. But he needs to own it. Just shows he lacks any self awareness.

Why was he happy to give us a detailed run through of the contracts last year?

 

[FAITH]

Ok, let me know when you deserve it

Wasn't about me, was about WaynesWorld19 saying Doedee would be a good Mid.
Give him the credit he deserves.

 

[George Kramer]

Wasn't about me, was about WaynesWorld19 saying Doedee would be a good Mid.
Give him the credit he deserves.

Oh so when you said "we" and "I", it wasn't actually about you but Wayne

And you know you are patting yourselves on the back for something that hasn't happened and is unlikely to?

i remember we were the only 2 that thought this pre-draft. I said he was our next Stenglein, which of course got shut down pretty quickly on here by most.