List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[1970crow]

I wouldn't mind us playing Murray up forward and in the ruck with Thilthorpe.

Tex, TT, Fog, Murray is pure vomit structure. It’s Murray or TT, not both.

 

[crow2crow]

Tex, TT, Fog, Murray is pure vomit structure. It’s Murray or TT, not both.

yeh murray is never going to be best 22 in a flag we need to move on and get games into others

no murphy rowe mchenry or murray in forward line or best 22 for me

 

[crow2crow]

The problem is none of our midfielders apart from Berry and Laird are any good in the contest. Even Keays and Crouch win the majority of their possessions uncontested.

Add to that a bottom three first choice ruckman and you can see why we are forced to address the bleeding by throwing additional numbers into the contest.

i looked that up about keays and crouch cos i didn't believe it but to my shock you are correct! crouches is particularly poor not just this season but whole career.

 

[Danger in Texas]

The problem is none of our midfielders apart from Berry and Laird are any good in the contest. Even Keays and Crouch win the majority of their possessions uncontested.

Add to that a bottom three first choice ruckman and you can see why we are forced to address the bleeding by throwing additional numbers into the contest.

?? Keays is top 25 in the comp for contested possessions. For reference, he has a better contested to uncontested ratio than Jack Steele

ROB not being in the top 15 rucks in the league seems like an exaggeration, too

I agree with your general sentiment that we can’t skim over the cracks by adding too many numbers at the contest. Just one of the reasons I’m not at all a fan of VB’s work

 

[Gtowncrow]

yeh murray is never going to be best 22 in a flag we need to move on and get games into others

no murphy rowe mchenry or murray in forward line or best 22 for me

It's surprising that there's not more support for a tall and strong brute of a player who can mark overhead with a monster kick.

Aren't they the raw ingredients of all the big bustling forwards throughout the history of the game.

If Tex lasts just one more year and TT does not develop into a full time KPF, who's next? Berg? Fish? Billy? A draftee from this year?

Nick Murray absolutely deserves consideration as a forward. It's crazy to pigeon hole him without exploring his full potential.

At the very least, it would be amazing to have a KPP who can play both ends when required.

Blighty would have given it a go!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Except we weren’t experimenting until after the Gold Coast game and our defence was opened up anyway.

A contested brand that is based on numbers around the ball by pushing up the small forwards, so when they disappear what he has taught the other players?

Just my opinion .....we've been experimenting most of the year .....it hasn't been about getting into the 8 , it has been about being in the game, for most of the game, and not getting blown away .....additionally looking at most of the list, IIRC we've played the most players of any Club List

I'd think you'd agree, each week, we were in games .....maybe a half, maybe 3/4 ....and then there were the horrible starts ....but the players IMO believed they were a chance each week

Lets look at the gamestyle next year, with an influx of more attacking and skilled players

 

[WaynesWorld19]

didnt richmond win on turnover as opposed to stoppage? we were still pretty damn contested in 2017 and highly skilled.

Yes, fwd turnover .....difference is we're teaching "kids" to play contested footy .....the 2017 team was experienced

It's a question of what do you teach a hoard of kids in a team first ?

 

[BunjiMac]

It's surprising that there's not more support for a tall and strong brute of a player who can mark overhead with a monster kick.

Aren't they the raw ingredients of all the big bustling forwards throughout the history of the game.

If Tex lasts just one more year and TT does not develop into a full time KPF, who's next? Berg? Fish? Billy? A draftee from this year?

Nick Murray absolutely deserves consideration as a forward. It's crazy to pigeon hole him without exploring his full potential.

At the very least, it would be amazing to have a KPP who can play both ends when required.

Blighty would have given it a go!

At a pinch and as a change up maybe you'd consider Murray, but the reality is that although he has good athleticism he's probably the dumbest footballer in the entire squad.

A shutdown defender where he doesn't have to really think is probably what he's best suited to at the AFL level.

 

[NTRabbit]

Tex, TT, Fog, Murray is pure vomit structure. It’s Murray or TT, not both.

Walker isn't going to be there 5 years from now.

May not even be there 2 years from now.

 

[BRL121]

Yes, fwd turnover .....difference is we're teaching "kids" to play contested footy .....the 2017 team was experienced

It's a question of what do you teach a hoard of kids in a team first ?

I know you're deliberately baiting me, but it's horde.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I know you're deliberately baiting me, but it's horde.

Never ! ......with my "Free-Style Expressionistic Elliptical" patented styling .....grammar & spelling are optional

Just go with the vibe .....it's liberating

 

[1970crow]

Where do we stand with Nicks now?

Positives

• Attracting talent (Dawson/Rankine/Hately/etc)
• Building off-field support (Burgess/)
• Getting team buy-in (all players seem committed to his messaging/direction)

Negatives

• Stubborn player selections (Too slow with his position/player changes)

I'm voting stay. We are getting a really great core team. We just need a skills coach / more refined game plan.

i don't think you can credit Nix much for the first 2 positives. Playing under a coach would be low on the order of merit in terms of swapping clubs. Maybe a Clarko or other successful coach, which is more about chasing success. No way players chase a rookie coach with Nix's record. Same with other recruitment of Burgo, he was coming home and we don't know his motives for choosing us over Port. Preferring to work at a Nix coached club over a Hinkley coached club would be highly unlikely.

Negative - too focussed on ladder posirion
- crippled with fear when under ladder position pressure
- fool of positive crap that isn't reflective of what's actually going on

 

[crow2crow]

?? Keays is top 25 in the comp for contested possessions. For reference, he has a better contested to uncontested ratio than Jack Steele

ROB not being in the top 15 rucks in the league seems like an exaggeration, too

I agree with your general sentiment that we can’t skim over the cracks by adding too many numbers at the contest. Just one of the reasons I’m not at all a fan of VB’s work

his point was about contested possession rate which was about 40% - so he was right I must say I was surprised too

 

[1970crow]

yeh murray is never going to be best 22 in a flag we need to move on and get games into others

no murphy rowe mchenry or murray in forward line or best 22 for me

First 6 selected is surely Tex, TT, Fog, Rachelle, McAdam and Rankine. 7th defender on the bench, leaves 3 bench spots. Surely 2 are rotating mids and the 4th definitely not an extra tall.

edit - forgot to mention that I like Murray and reckon he's developing well as a KPD, but adding him to the forward group is insanity.

 

[1970crow]

Walker isn't going to be there 5 years from now.

May not even be there 2 years from now.

worth considering end of 2023. But not next year, unless he covers Tex rest games or injury. But Gollant looks a worthy replacement and we've just re-signed Berg for 2 more.

 

[crow2crow]

First 6 selected is surely Tex, TT, Fog, Rachelle, McAdam and Rankine. 7th defender on the bench, leaves 3 bench spots. Surely 2 are rotating mids and the 4th definitely not an extra tall.

edit - forgot to mention that I like Murray and reckon he's developing well as a KPD, but adding him to the forward group is insanity.

murray has surprised me but i would be shocked if he developed enough in any position to be good enough to be best 22 in a grand final assuming we ever got there which i know is highly speculative

 

[Geoffa32]

Do you think McAdam is only a forward? I like the way he moves and the relative freedom of the wing might allow him to "stretch his legs" a bit more.
Thoughts anyone...

Agree.

His improvement came this year due to his ability to push up the ground.

Doubt he would ever be a centre clearance mid, but some work around stoppages helps his forward craft


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[NTRabbit]

worth considering end of 2023. But not next year, unless he covers Tex rest games or injury. But Gollant looks a worthy replacement and we've just re-signed Berg for 2 more.

Gollant isn't that kind of forward, he's more Mitch McGovern or Jake Stringer than a KPF. Structurally Gollant replaces McAdam in the lineup, Fogarty replaces Walker, and then there's a vacancy - or there should be a vacancy, where Thilthorpe is playing first ruck and not forward.

Developing Thilthorpe as a forward who sometimes rucks is a pretty sizable mistake, and keeping both Murray and Butts in one back line is also a mistake, because they're both negators who aren't great on the intercept or rebound, and of the two Butts is better.

 

[Soggy2112]

Same with other recruitment of Burgo, he was coming home and we don't know his motives for choosing us over Port. Preferring to work at a Nix coached club over a Hinkley coached club would be highly unlikely.

Incorrect. Listen to his podcasts and his interviews around clubs he’s worked at and why he chose the Crows. He values the working relationship with the coach incredibly highly when choosing an employer, and explained that his interactions with Nicks and their potential professional relationship as one of the key reasons he chose the Crows

 

[1970crow]

Gollant isn't that kind of forward, he's more Mitch McGovern or Jake Stringer than a KPF. Structurally Gollant replaces McAdam in the lineup, Fogarty replaces Walker, and then there's a vacancy - or there should be a vacancy, where Thilthorpe is playing first ruck and not forward.

Developing Thilthorpe as a forward who sometimes rucks is a pretty sizable mistake, and keeping both Murray and Butts in one back line is also a mistake, because they're both negators who aren't great on the intercept or rebound, and of the two Butts is better.

I don't agree that it matters that Gollant isn't like for like, that being a genuine strategy is an urban myth. A marking forward group of TT, Fog and Gollant is perfectly fine. Plus at this stage Berg is most likely to come in before Gollant anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing it trialled when opportunity presents, but it makes you wonder the point of extending Berg. If we think now is the time to lock in our depth, key back is where we're thin. Up forward you can always play small, backline you need to match up.

 

[1970crow]

Incorrect. Listen to his podcasts and his interviews around clubs he’s worked at and why he chose the Crows. He values the working relationship with the coach incredibly highly when choosing an employer, and explained that his interactions with Nicks and their potential professional relationship as one of the key reasons he chose the Crows

yeh, coz we just believe everything that industry people say. Funny how it's never about $.

 

[Soggy2112]

yeh, coz we just believe everything that industry people say. Funny how it's never about $.

Seriously, go listen to his podcast.

He talks about how much he values the working relationship with the coach/GM etc all the time, both before and after he signed with the Crows.

I’m sure $$$ was a factor but he wouldn’t be here if he hadn’t viewed Nicks as someone he wanted to work with.

 

[LeftyLuke]

Tex, TT, Fog, Murray is pure vomit structure. It’s Murray or TT, not both.

Would have Thilthorpe in the ruck and Murray interchanging with him as the 2nd ruck. Only one of them would ever be in the forward line at the one time. That would allow us to drop ROB out of the team. I think Fog, Walker, Murray, McAdam, Rankine, Rachele, Newchurch is a pretty good structure. Rankine and Rachele we could interchange forward and mid. McAdam, Murray, Fogarty are all good aerially and should be able to decrease opposition intercept marks and worse case get the ball to ground for our smalls. Murray would also make some backs nervous with the way he flys at packs when given a licence to mark the ball. I think Gollant is a good prospect but it's probably out of McAdam or Gollant for that position and McAdam is a bit more mobile at ground level. Gollant could come into the team permanently when Walker hangs up the boots.

The other player is Cook. Hopefully he really comes on next year. Himmelberg we should try down back as he is surplus to our needs up forward. Lastly, the only way we could play Murray up forward would be if we brought in another KPD such as Brennan Cox or someone else otherwise Murray would be needed down back.

 

[LeftyLuke]

Who do you think our top 6 paid players would/should be?


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Definitely not ROB included within them. He shouldn't be in our top 12-13 highest paid players imo. Would trade him out for a decent ruck if one was keen on coming here. Would all depend if he was willing to leave while contracted. I can't see why he wouldn't be willing to head back home to Vic seeing as though he came from there.

 

[NTRabbit]

I don't agree that it matters that Gollant isn't like for like, that being a genuine strategy is an urban myth. A marking forward group of TT, Fog and Gollant is perfectly fine. Plus at this stage Berg is most likely to come in before Gollant anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing it trialled when opportunity presents, but it makes you wonder the point of extending Berg. If we think now is the time to lock in our depth, key back is where we're thin. Up forward you can always play small, backline you need to match up.

I don't want TT as a marking forward, I want him as a ruckman. I don't really think much of him as a forward so far, but even if you disagree with that his attributes are far better maximised in the ruck role.