List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[WaynesWorld19]

His game day performance is just fine, given the age & inexperience of the players he's working with. If anything, he has the team over-performing relative to expectations.

This !!! .....I'm not really sure why Nicks is copping the s*** that he is ???

 

[LeftyLuke]

You didn’t really answer the question. I am not debating whether we should look for an upgrade of ROB - just saying we barely have a half a dozen players who deserve over the average wage at the start of 2022

Walker Laird Dawson Seedsman Sloane and probably ROB as a B&F winner. The only others in the ball park would be Crouch, Smith, Doedee, Brown and Milera (to earn over average wage contracted before the season started)

So ROB is pretty obvious one to be on those sort of dollars


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Our top 6 paid should be:
Dawson
Laird
Fogarty
Walker
Berry
Rankine

Our actual top 6 paid would be
Sloane
Walker
Doedee
ROB
Laird
Smith?

I think Walker and Sloane will retire at the end of 2023. Smith, Doedee and ROB don't really deserve the money they are on.

 

[Mego Red]

is Seedsman retired or a Cat A rookie?

Same as Gibbs - move to rookie list so we can pay him over two years, then moved to LTI list and we take another player.

 

[1970crow]

Great work .....your numbers show we currently have 43 on the list, combined Rookie / Main list

Is it just one player on the LTI list .....I thought both Seedsman and Sloane were ?

both are but we only replaced one in the MSD.

 

[Mego Red]

Note that we currently have 43 on our list (plus Cat B rookies), with a maximum of 42. This is the result of adding Turner in the MSD, replacing Seedsman who was on the LTI list. Turner doesn't technically "own" a position on our list.

True - we have to cut one more player than we add.

You could list it as Turner/Seedsman, I guess? Or just call it Schroedinger's spot.

 

[Mego Red]

It's not the last pick they have. They have as many picks as they require, to fill the vacancies on their list. It's just that most people don't bother listing picks after the 4th round - but those later round picks still exist.

It's the last pick they have, unless they cut deeper into their list. That's their fourth pick, currently.

 

[Mego Red]

His game day performance is just fine, given the age & inexperience of the players he's working with. If anything, he has the team over-performing relative to expectations.

I'm sure the game day issues aren't because Nicks is telling the players to make errors - it's mostly inexperience that gets them out of position or making bad choices.

 

[Crowboto]

Where do we stand with Nicks now?

Positives

• Attracting talent (Dawson/Rankine/Hately/etc)
• Building off-field support (Burgess/)
• Getting team buy-in (all players seem committed to his messaging/direction)

Negatives

• Stubborn player selections (Too slow with his position/player changes)

I'm voting stay. We are getting a really great core team. We just need a skills coach / more refined game plan.

We need to win 4 or 5 more games next year and show that our skills and cohesion has improved this off-season or else It should be curtains for him. Despite what the club says 4 years with no significant advances is long enough. Year 5 and 6 with Nicks still in charge and no finals appearances. Yuck.

 

[Golumless]

A few things here:

Twomey indicating that there is a 'view within clubs that list sizes will stay the same' going into next year.

Also interesting to hear from Collingwood that they were so keen on Carmichael that they would have used end of season draft picks to move up the PSD draft order, if they were able to do so. A feature they would like to see in the future.

Despite the fact that Carmichael's disposal efficiency so far has been generally poor, he's getting a start in a Top 4 club playing finals, his best game coming against the Crows, including 6 clearances & 8 tackles. A speedy big-bodied mid that certainly could have developed in our side.

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Despite being a sexy size, what difference is there between that and Sam Berry?

 

[Soggy2112]

Our top 6 paid should be:
Dawson
Laird
Fogarty
Walker
Berry
Rankine

Our actual top 6 paid would be
Sloane
Walker
Doedee
ROB
Laird
Smith?

I think Walker and Sloane will retire at the end of 2023. Smith, Doedee and ROB don't really deserve the money they are on.

As a general rule, the older players are paid more across all AFL clubs.

Unless it’s a situation like Rankine or Dawson where a young player is coming out of contract and is highly sought after they’re not going to get the big $$ until they’re 25+.

Dawson would absolutely be in our highest paid players, I’m not sure if Doedee would be just yet.

Berry and Fog are still on contract extensions they signed while they were fringe players and therefore not on big $$ yet.

 

[Vader]

We need to win 4 or 5 more games next year and show that our skills and cohesion has improved this off-season or else It should be curtains for him. Despite what the club says 4 years with no significant advances is long enough. Year 5 and 6 with Nicks still in charge and no finals appearances. Yuck.

4 or 5 more games? Which universe are you in, because it's certainly not the real world.

Nicks has been in charge during a period of ground-up rebuild, and the teams we fielded this year were consistently the youngest & least experienced in the entire competition - and younger & less experienced than their 2021 equivalents. There is no expectation whatsoever of Adelaide playing finals in 2023, and Nicks' position would not be dependent on any such unrealistic expectation.

 

[Crowboto]

4 or 5 more games? Which universe are you in, because it's certainly not the real world.

According to the club we have vastly improved this year, so with another preseason and another A grader coming into the side, why do you think at least 4 more wins next season is not a realistic target if we are on the the trajectory the club alleges?

 

[tinman]

A few things here:

Twomey indicating that there is a 'view within clubs that list sizes will stay the same' going into next year.

Why are list sizes even a thing? We have a salary cap.

Hypothetically, if a club wanted 60 players all on minimum wage why can't they? Provided they stay within the cap, big deal.

This would allow clubs at the bottom to have a bigger list when they are rebuilding instead of "overpaying" players just to pay the cap. It would allow those rebuilding clubs to get more young talent in, and potentially extends the careers some veterans who get pushed out because the club isn't contending and needs list numbers.

It makes sense so the AFL won't ever do it.

 

[Crowboto]

4 or 5 more games? Which universe are you in, because it's certainly not the real world.

Nicks has been in charge during a period of ground-up rebuild, and the teams we fielded this year were consistently the youngest & least experienced in the entire competition - and younger & less experienced than their 2021 equivalents. There is no expectation whatsoever of Adelaide playing finals in 2023, and Nicks' position would not be dependent on any such unrealistic expectation.

Fair bit of bum covering for Nicks in that response Vader. Four wins wouldnt get us to finals anyway, but we would be able to visualise that we have actually improved.

 

[Golumless]

Fair bit of bum covering for Nicks in that response Vader. Four wins wouldnt get us to finals anyway, but we would be able to visualise that we have actually improved.

12 wins is usually enough to jag an elimination final spot, though also percentage plays a role.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Fair bit of bum covering for Nicks in that response Vader. Four wins wouldnt get us to finals anyway, but we would be able to visualise that we have actually improved.

Not sure we have the squad to get us 12 to 13 wins next year. Whilst we may improve the reality is that other clubs will also improve. Getting 10 wins will be a good challenge. That will show continued growth and by the end of the 23 season we will have players passing 50 games with some heading towards 75. So I see the 2024 season as the one where we could break into the top eight. Players like Rachele, Dawson, Rankine, Berry, Soligo TT would have developed further as a group.

 

[Jinglebells32]

NWM is an outside player with nice skills. That's like Matty Nicks kryptonite.

Like Sholl?

 

[Golumless]

Not sure we have the squad to get us 12 to 13 wins next year. Whilst we may improve the reality is that other clubs will also improve. Getting 10 wins will be a good challenge. That will show continued growth and by the end of the 23 season we will have players passing 50 games with some heading towards 75. So I see the 2024 season as the one where we could break into the top eight. Players like Rachele, Dawson, Rankine, Berry, Soligo TT would have developed further as a group.

Other clubs will also fall apart as well.

That said, 10 wins is what I'd consider a good 2023. A move towards being a reliable (and young) mid-table side.

 

[crow2crow]

65 is the last pick WB have. They have to pass on that pick to take Rowe as a DFA, so it's exactly the same from their perspective to give it away.

A future third is pretty close to meaningless. IF a club wants Crouch, that's about the least a club could give.

it looks very conservative so all looks possible. the 23 and 28 for 13 is the least likely part of it for mine - who are assuming that is coming from?

 

[Vader]

According to the club we have vastly improved this year, so with another preseason and another A grader coming into the side, why do you think at least 4 more wins next season is not a realistic target if we are on the the trajectory the club alleges?

1 player won't make that much difference - certainly not 4 wins worth of difference (i.e. 50% more wins than we had this year).

You really need to temper your expectations.

Adelaide's improvement is like the old Pantene ad - "it won't happen overnight, but it will happen".

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

As a general rule, the older players are paid more across all AFL clubs.

Unless it’s a situation like Rankine or Dawson where a young player is coming out of contract and is highly sought after they’re not going to get the big $$ until they’re 25+.

Dawson would absolutely be in our highest paid players, I’m not sure if Doedee would be just yet.

Berry and Fog are still on contract extensions they signed while they were fringe players and therefore not on big $$ yet.

Agree, except I believe Laird & Sloane are our highest paid 2 players.

 

[Vader]

Fair bit of bum covering for Nicks in that response Vader. Four wins wouldnt get us to finals anyway, but we would be able to visualise that we have actually improved.

It's not "bum covering" - it's called being realistic, as distinct from delusional expectations that we'll win 12-13 games next year.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

65 is the last pick WB have. They have to pass on that pick to take Rowe as a DFA, so it's exactly the same from their perspective to give it away.

A future third is pretty close to meaningless. IF a club wants Crouch, that's about the least a club could give.

Yeah can’t actually see a club wanting crouch … if it happens it will happen v late I reckon

Funny that 2 of our much maligned in Frampton and Mcasey might have the most trade value

 

[Mego Red]

it looks very conservative so all looks possible. the 23 and 28 for 13 is the least likely part of it for mine - who are assuming that is coming from?

I think that's the best offer the Lions will get for their pick - but GWS may also overpay, depending what they get for their departing players.

If we are looking for a trade partner for our 2023 first, I wouldn't be surprised if GWS are interested, as they may want to move one of their 2022 1sts into next year.

 

[BrissyCrow]

It's not "bum covering" - it's called being realistic, as distinct from delusional expectations that we'll win 12-13 games next year.

Realistic is a word I use a lot. I see so many posters who are either dreaming, unrealistic or smoking opium. I understand that its great to be positive so long as you temper that positivity with a dose of realism.