List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Dr Spaceman]

In breaking news, Saints have gone cold on the Heeney trade.
Despite coming to terms , Saints are now concerned at Heeney's lack of ability to make a team lift against superior opposition, and consider that he is probably now emotionally scarred.

Going all out on Kelly now it seems

 

[Drop Kick]

Going all out on Kelly now it seems

Whoever we get they probably won't ever have to worry about choking on the big stage, unlike two thirds of the today's Sydney team.

 

[magd2992]

We’ll, now that the the curtain raiser is complete, what’s the dream scenario for us during trade period?

For me:

1. Pick 7 and J Bowes in.
2. Sadly, B Long out, but made easier as it is part of 1 above.
3. JDG in. Not completely sold on the idea, but it’s as a FA and a club as historically unsuccessful as us should never die wondering.
4. H Clark stays.
5. B Hill out - but for what?
6. We get more than a packet of Twisties for J Bytel.
7. A Clarkson banned from coaching at any level for life.
8. The AFL Cottons On and Geelong gets exposed for salary cap rorting over the past 15 years (see what I did there?). Saints get awarded the 2009 Premiership retrospectively.
9. Western Australia secedes and Mark McGowan is declared the inaugural Honourable Leader of the Republic of Western Australia.
10. McGowan’s first act as Honourable Leader is to permit big businesses to open before 11am in a Sunday, ffs.

 

[pluggeranddoc]

There are not to many players that can change a game - Dangerfield , Martin , Fyfe etc - DeGoey is one who has the talent to change a game and if we get him watch out - no reason we will not be fighting for a flag next year.

Sure thing, we will hang it with those won by Lovett and Hannabery!

 

[pluggeranddoc]

We still get reamed in that scenario


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All the reaming with Hill happened on the way in!

 

[Joffaboy]

As a salary dump for JDG, Bowes, etc


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Why trade him when you don't need to salary dump.
Highly unlikely we get both Bowes and DeGoey, and we have no need to salary dump we have ample SC.
So why trade him?

 

[lewdogs]

Why trade him when you don't need to salary dump.
Highly unlikely we get both Bowes and DeGoey, and we have no need to salary dump we have ample SC.
So why trade him?

We must have some irons in the fire. Otherwise I agree why would we bother especially considering we'll likely get unders.

 

[Grav]

After watching the game yesterday, IMO what we need to compete: Midfield strength, tall neanderthal KPD, pace all around the ground.


*A new game plan

 

[PoppedCorn]

Im tipping clarko will stay at north and others will fall on swords
Scott will leave the afl and go back to coach the lions

 

[Joffaboy]

We must have some irons in the fire. Otherwise I agree why would we bother especially considering we'll likely get unders.

Yes, it is never in isolation, that's why it is so frustrating when we hear ' Hill cost us pick 6 and Acres'.
I bet you a slab that if we landed DeGoey, Bowes, pick 7, pick 9, Cheezle and McKenzie, and a surprise landing, we would have some numpty complaining that 'we only got a second rounder for Hill'.

Hopefully you are correct and we have irons in the fire.

 

[Joffaboy]

Im tipping clarko will stay at north and others will fall on swords
Scott will leave the afl and go back to coach the lions

Reckon both are gone.

 

[gringo2011]

Going all out on Kelly now it seems

Talking of GWS it seems that the Lauchie Whitfield talk dried up quickly.

 

[gringo2011]

We must have some irons in the fire. Otherwise I agree why would we bother especially considering we'll likely get unders.

Lots of clubs look like they want to salary dump at the moment. Apparently next year they are removing a clause that lets you take some of injured players wages out of the cap and tightening things up. Like Gold Coast at some point we have to start paying guys like Windhager, Sinclair, Owens, King, Battle etc more money. That means guys like Hill who probably contributes at a level that sits at about half of what he's paid looks like a target for removal.

Gives you access to more FAs and trade targets into the future too. You really want your highest paid players to contribute like they are worth their wages or they are a liability. Hanners and Hill haven't held us back because our list is still ordinary but hopefully at some point there is pressure on the cap.

 

[George]

Lots of clubs look like they want to salary dump at the moment. Apparently next year they are removing a clause that lets you take some of injured players wages out of the cap and tightening things up. Like Gold Coast at some point we have to start paying guys like Windhager, Sinclair, Owens, King, Battle etc more money. That means guys like Hill who probably contributes at a level that sits at about half of what he's paid looks like a target for removal.

Gives you access to more FAs and trade targets into the future too. You really want your highest paid players to contribute like they are worth their wages or they are a liability. Hanners and Hill haven't held us back because our list is still ordinary but hopefully at some point there is pressure on the cap.

Here he is

 

[gringo2011]

Yes, it is never in isolation, that's why it is so frustrating when we hear ' Hill cost us pick 6 and Acres'.
I bet you a slab that if we landed DeGoey, Bowes, pick 7, pick 9, Cheezle and McKenzie, and a surprise landing, we would have some numpty complaining that 'we only got a second rounder for Hill'.

Hopefully you are correct and we have irons in the fire.

You can add all the other extras into that original deal but it still sucked, we got a pile of GOPs for a pick that could have been used to build the future around....which is what sides like Freo and Melbourne did that year. Freo got Serong, Hayden Young, Fredrick and Liam Henry- two look elite, one looks A grade and one has massive potential still. Melbourne got Jackson, Kosi Pickett and Trent Rivers. One elite, one looks like he will be elite and get them a suite of high picks and one is close to an A grade premiership defender.

If we get DeGoey it's up for debate until we see what he can add but as a FA it's really a free hit. The wages he takes an his output make it good or bad. If he plays like he did in the finals and keeps out of trouble it's elite. If he gets sacked after 5 weeks and we've had to trade for him using first round picks it's a disaster.

Bowes and pick 7 looks a no brainer as long as we aren't giving up much back the other way. If we are doing it for a swap of picks 8 and 10 and Bowes is staying around a GOP level it's not a good trade. Especially if McKenzie is only a GOP.

List management when you are starting behind needs everything to go right because you have to match what the good sides and then some to make up ground. Allison type speculative picks are just really a no. When you are starting a race from a fair way back you can't afford to forget to tie your laces.

 

[MightySaint]

You can add all the other extras into that original deal but it still sucked, we got a pile of GOPs for a pick that could have been used to build the future around....which is what sides like Freo and Melbourne did that year. Freo got Serong, Hayden Young, Fredrick and Liam Henry- two look elite, one looks A grade and one has massive potential still. Melbourne got Jackson, Kosi Pickett and Trent Rivers. One elite, one looks like he will be elite and get them a suite of high picks and one is close to an A grade premiership defender.

If we get DeGoey it's up for debate until we see what he can add but as a FA it's really a free hit. The wages he takes an his output make it good or bad. If he plays like he did in the finals and keeps out of trouble it's elite. If he gets sacked after 5 weeks and we've had to trade for him using first round picks it's a disaster.

Bowes and pick 7 looks a no brainer as long as we aren't giving up much back the other way. If we are doing it for a swap of picks 8 and 10 and Bowes is staying around a GOP level it's not a good trade. Especially if McKenzie is only a GOP.

List management when you are starting behind needs everything to go right because you have to match what the good sides and then some to make up ground. Allison type speculative picks are just really a no. When you are starting a race from a fair way back you can't afford to forget to tie your laces.

So much this. Picked up a pile GOPs that have gone backwards. I can't wait to get more of these kinds of hauls. Sign me up.

 

[stfan]

I think that yesterday's GF reinforced why Hill is excess to requirements.

If a team is on their game like the Cats very much were then two things happen:

• There is very little open space
• The person with the ball, or to receive the ball, is nearly always under pressure

Hill thrives only when he is in space, and secondly also when he is not under pressure from an opponent.

When Hill is under the pump he makes errors, bad decisions and his ballskills desert him. While he has improved somewhat defensively, he is still well short of what is required.

So Hill is only really go to help us, if we are dominating the game anyway. In which case we do not really need him.



As I have posted previously, the way good teams play today has greatly reduced the ability of Hill to play well.

If you want to bea Top$ contender you need every player in your team to have a two-way game. Higgins also needs to evolve, otherwise he will continue to just have the occassional game where he gets off the chain, but many others we he is a team liability.

 

[longlivelenny]

If we can get Bowes and pick 7 for long, then even if Hill and Clark go, we are still just ahead.
7, 9 Bowes and still potentially degoey is a sweet haul in one off season

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[PoppedCorn]

Reckon both are gone.

Could be right for sure
We can only hope

Will be massive if both get the ass

 

[gringo2011]

I think that yesterday's GF reinforced why Hill is excess to requirements.

If a team is on their game like the Cats very much were then two things happen:

• There is very little open space
• The person with the ball, or to receive the ball, is nearly always under pressure

Hill thrives only when he is in space, and secondly also when he is not under pressure from an opponent.

When Hill is under the pump he makes errors, bad decisions and his ballskills desert him. While he has improved somewhat defensively, he is still well short of what is required.

So Hill is only really go to help us, if we are dominating the game anyway. In which case we do not really need him.



As I have posted previously, the way good teams play today has greatly reduced the ability of Hill to play well.

If you want to bea Top$ contender you need every player in your team to have a two-way game. Higgins also needs to evolve, otherwise he will continue to just have the occassional game where he gets off the chain, but many others we he is a team liability.

What Geelong show me is that discipline, system and work rate can cover a multitude of sins. Selwood and Danger are still guns but they aren't what they were. Geelong's midfield is very meh but as you say, none of them are lazy or one way or confused. They cut space up so tight that you get strangled. Sydney get the ball to the outside and run the ball quickly before you can set up. There just wasn't any space to open up.

Geelong actually retained the ball too, they spread to free up players when they had the ball and kicked and marked which they have done less of lately. Premier teams change the fashion, perhaps Ratts chip, mark game looks up to date now? I think we would need a discipline and skill transplant to achieve it though. Perhaps we need to get Selwood like Brisbane did with Hodge. We still have no leadership.

 

[PoppedCorn]

As much as we give selwood shit for ducking u would have him involved in your club in a heartbeat
Done as a player
Perfect send off and deserves it

Imagine him and hayes in the youths ear about discipline hard work and team structure and roles??


Id trade him in for anyone but lenny atm

 

[Mowman]

Yes, it is never in isolation, that's why it is so frustrating when we hear ' Hill cost us pick 6 and Acres'.
I bet you a slab that if we landed DeGoey, Bowes, pick 7, pick 9, Cheezle and McKenzie, and a surprise landing, we would have some numpty complaining that 'we only got a second rounder for Hill'.

Hopefully you are correct and we have irons in the fire.

If we do get a pick in the 20s it’s poor management from our list guys it’s 3 wasted years with Hill we have recruited a guy spent big on dollars and for we gave up for him

People responsible for our drafting and recruiting need to be made accountable for past mistakes and supporters aren’t numptys for being p1ssed with what’s happened

 

[TassieSaint]

I think that yesterday's GF reinforced why Hill is excess to requirements.

If a team is on their game like the Cats very much were then two things happen:

• There is very little open space
• The person with the ball, or to receive the ball, is nearly always under pressure

Hill thrives only when he is in space, and secondly also when he is not under pressure from an opponent.

When Hill is under the pump he makes errors, bad decisions and his ballskills desert him. While he has improved somewhat defensively, he is still well short of what is required.

So Hill is only really go to help us, if we are dominating the game anyway. In which case we do not really need him.



As I have posted previously, the way good teams play today has greatly reduced the ability of Hill to play well.

If you want to bea Top$ contender you need every player in your team to have a two-way game. Higgins also needs to evolve, otherwise he will continue to just have the occassional game where he gets off the chain, but many others we he is a team liability.

To play devils advocate, I'd argue Isaac Smith yesterday played exactly the role we would have been hoping Hill would play when we brought him over. He's shown he's capable of it on occasion and I think he'd look a million times better in a side like Geelong or Demons. If he wants to go to North on the other hand, good luck to him, he'll either find it even tougher going or end up splitting the chippies with fellow seagull Hall in the back pocket.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Maybe clark is gone
I thought he would stay

But whispers about seems to be he wants to hang with a surfing buddy
Must love surfing to go to norf or just sees it as a job

Plenty of players see it that way and have other loves outside of a job
But a future second???
Gee
Id take the first pick of this years second round i guess

Just get it over with

 

[chris_h_11]

Could be right for sure
We can only hope

Will be massive if both get the ass

Either way, it won't be decided until after trade week. The whole issue is going to cast a massive shadow over every deal involving North or the Lions, which is about 15 at the moment