List Mgmt. 2022 Young Talent Time

[Snuffaluphagus]

Following on from my depth analysis, my drafting preferences after basically watching a few 2 minute highlight videos and reading Bangers rankings is:
30 - Darcy Jones: Draft as a small forward and as what we wanted Western to be. Looks like best small forward that might still be available at our pick
44 - Harry Lemmey: Think he could play forward or back and we can take our time with him - unbelievable fall from grace though.
67 - Jed Hagan: Natural footballer I'm sure would give it absolutely everything and could be a Liam Baker

7

Liam Baker

Age

26

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

222.2

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

191.9

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

224.2

4star

type

Rookie 1: Best state ruck available OR Jackson Broadbent if still available
Rookie 2:Tippa when he trains with us

Cat B: Whichever NGA we like the most

I think that's our list spots right, Cat B is outside the rest of the list still?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Chris25, any background behind the crazy fall from Lemmey this year? He looked incredible this time last year now he seems to be easily gettable with a pick after 30

 

[Bastyy]

Following on from my depth analysis, my drafting preferences after basically watching a few 2 minute highlight videos and reading Bangers rankings is:
30 - Darcy Jones: Draft as a small forward and as what we wanted Western to be. Looks like best small forward that might still be available at our pick
44 - Harry Lemmey: Think he could play forward or back and we can take our time with him - unbelievable fall from grace though.
67 - Jed Hagan: Natural footballer I'm sure would give it absolutely everything and could be a Liam Baker type

Rookie 1: Best state ruck available OR Jackson Broadbent if still available
Rookie 2:Tippa when he trains with us

Cat B: Whichever NGA we like the most

I think that's our list spots right, Cat B is outside the rest of the list still?

Hagan probably gone by 67, small but the talent is obvious to clubs so we'd probably have to grab him at 44 at the latest

 

[Joao]

Jones
Hagan/One of those fallen 2m KPFs
Some KPD
Some Ruck

Do we even have 4 list spots?

 

[theGav56]

Think with later picks we prioritise needs. Looking at our Under 25 B22

B Young - ? - Chapman
HB Clark - Cox - Walker
C Henry - Brodie - O'Driscoll
R Darcy - Brayshaw - Serong
HF Frederick - Treacy - Sturt
F Schultz - Amiss - Jackson
I/C Erasmus - Johnson - Banfield - Worner - Crowden
Emg Kuek - Benning

Not having a young developing KPD is an obvious gap, even if they see Benning as a possible option there.

If Benning is a kpd option why is their a gap?

 

[Gussman]

Does Freo still have any interest in Ultan Kelm as a cat B? Could be handy depth at HB or HF atm.

 

[Docker82]

I agree with this unless Benning and/or Kuek are seen as defenders long term or someone slides to us that we rate higher than 30. I think the latter is possible given the supposed evenness of this draft and the number of talls that were rated far higher this time last year (Lemmey, Scully, the WA ruck etc).

I didn’t consider Benning when I did my previous post tbh. I think he’ll be a KPD. Didn’t stop Paddy Ryder but he’s undersized for a ruck.

Taberner, Amiss, Treacy, Jackson, Corbett, Sturt. Realistically that’s six players (five if Darcy gets injured) to fill three or four spots in the best 22.

At least two of them play for Peel along with Kuek in the forward line. I don’t see Kuek as a KPD.

I’m a firm believer that players development will be significantly halted if there isn’t enough space at right level to play their required role. It’s all great to have extra KPFs on the list but if they’re either playing the wrong role or are stuck in the WAFL reserves then they’ll struggle to develop as a KPF. It’s what happened years ago with Luke Strnadica. It was too many rucks then - you can have too many KPFs too.

 

[myfreodom]

If Benning is a kpd option why is their a gap?

Because he hasn't even played the role at WAFL League level yet, let alone expecting him to play it at AFL level. The rest of the 18 on field have all played the respective roles at AFL level.

 

[tonygeeks]

Keeler at 30 and lemmey at 44?

Keller looks a bit Paddy Ryderish why is he falling down the mocks

 

[rgauci]

Because he hasn't even played the role at WAFL League level yet, let alone expecting him to play it at AFL level. The rest of the 18 on field have all played the respective roles at AFL level.

He did play KP defender at WAFL league level. He had very few possessions. I vaguely remember 2, but they have been sometime in the 2nd half.

 

[myfreodom]

He did play KP defender at WAFL league level. He had very few possessions. I vaguely remember 2, but they have been sometime in the 2nd half.

He has only played 1 League game ever, against Perth where he got 2 disposals, 1 kick, 1 handball, 1 mark and 1 tackle. The point still stands, he hasn't proven KPD is his best role yet. I think it is worth continuing to experiment with but he's shown nothing to pencil him with even inkling of certainty in for that role into the future yet.

 

[rgauci]

He has only played 1 League game ever, against Perth where he got 2 disposals, 1 kick, 1 handball, 1 mark and 1 tackle. The point still stands, he hasn't proven KPD is his best role yet. I think it is worth continuing to experiment with but he's shown nothing to pencil him with even inkling of certainty in for that role into the future yet.

That’s the game, he played key back and he was underwhelming. My guess is he’s a 5-10% chance of making it as an afl footballer. Fingers crossed he makes it.

 

[Chris25]

Key Defenders

KPD is a position that I would consider using our first pick on, unless we genuinely think Hamling is good to go again - I know it's not a fun pick, but an injury to Cox or Pearce will likely derail the season quicker than any other position . A combination of teams taking few picks and the tall defender stocks not being deep means there's a good chance they start to go off the board earlier than expected. I didn't include Jedd Busslinger or Lewis Hayes who look like first round picks.

Jed Adams (194cm, 89kg from WA)
Ethan Phillips (198cm, 90kg from VFL)
Josh Weddle (192cm, 89kg from Vic Metro)
Hugh Davies (196cm, 85kg from WA)
James Van Es (196cm, 97kg from Vic Country)
Noah Pegoraro (194cm, 88kg from WA)

Starting with arguably the best mature aged prospect in the draft, I think Ethan Phillips goes relatively early around the second or third rounds and we might need to use #30 if we wanted him. He's had a couple of good years in the VFL and is still only 23. It's been a gradual development, having started as a strong lock down defender and then adding more offensively to his game every year. Reads the play well, kicking is pretty good and an above average intercepter. He's no athlete, but he doesn't really need to be.

Josh Weddle is another who would be in the mix around our first pick, may or may not be available. He's shorter than the others, but he's strong and versatile. He's a bit like Luke Ryan in that he can play as a straight out interceptor, lock down a small or play full back on bigger opponents. The other Victorian on my list is James Van Es, he's big and strong and is a weird one to judge. He's both a ready made defender with his strength and marking ability, but he's also very much a project with his athleticism and speed not showing in game yet. I can see clubs being tempted, but I have doubts.

Convenienty for us, WA have two of the better 18 year old KPDs remaining in Jed Adams and Hugh Davies. Adams is a Peel boy who made his league debut late in the season, I think he's got a fair amount of upside and is a versatile defender with his strong marking and good disposal. I'd consider going early and using our first on him. Hugh Davies had an up and down start to the year, but was a good surprise at the Champs for WA and rated as one of the better intercept defenders despite also playing on the most dangerous opposition forwards.

And finally, I'm sticking with Noah Pegoraro who I've liked for a couple of seasons. I think he'd be good defensive depth and would certainly make Peel a better side. Just a good solid defender really, and is ready to make an impact if needed at only 25 years old. I rate him probably the second best mature aged option. I do also like Tyreece Leiu, a 19 year who has been playing with the Carlton VFL side. He's maybe the closest to a direct Logue replacement. And both he and Pegoraro would be late rookie pick ups.

 

[_007_]

Is Hamling, Ryan, Chapman and Benning not deep enough cover?

Wouldn't say the need is urgent tbh.

 

[myfreodom]

We should definitely invest more draft currency in defenders. 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks in our B23 and having just lost a pick #8 KPD to another team - we simply haven't invested enough!

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Is Hamling, Ryan, Chapman and Benning not deep enough cover?

Wouldn't say the need is urgent tbh.

IF Benning is highly rated by the club as a KPD option, then it's probably fine, otherwise I'd argue a KPD to develop for 3-4 years and play the odd game as an emergency is close to as high a priority as a small forward for me.

I would not be including Chappy in the KPD bracket personally

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

We should definitely invest more draft currency in defenders. 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks in our B23 and having just lost a pick #8 KPD to another team - we simply haven't invested enough!

You say that, but we literally have only 10 or 11 defenders on the list. Doesnt have to be a high pick but defence is the position we now have the least number of options for really. It's of course mitigated by the fact we seem to have our first choice 7 locked away for like 5 years

 

[myfreodom]

You say that, but we literally have only 10 or 11 defenders on the list. Doesnt have to be a high pick but defence is the position we now have the least number of options for really. It's of course mitigated by the fact we seem to have our first choice 7 locked away for like 5 years

I see it the same as rucks. We need cover but you don't spend high on cover. We lost Logue because we couldn't fit him in our back 7. We lost Meek because we couldn't give him opportunities. Think a quality small forward is a much more important investment. Because if they are good they'll get opportunities. And there is plenty of room at Peel to develop them if they aren't ready yet.

edit - also, we don't have great picks so whichever talls we get with our picks are going to be extremely speculative regardless. Or have ordinary ceilings (break glass cover)

 

[Taylor]

I see it the same as rucks. We need cover but you don't spend high on cover.

This is the reason why I think targeting talls later can be more beneficial than smalls. If a tall player can mark the ball they can find a place, they can get offered a contract by another side and we can trade them for something later. Obviously higher rated talls are going to be far more valuable but when it comes to guys who aren't super fast, aren't particularly good kicks but can run a long way and can mark the ball - the tall guy is worth significantly more to the AFL than the small.

In the meantime we have cover for tall positions, but we are already running a system where everyone under about 6'3" is a mid/fwd/def all at once.

Even if we have to draft two or three times as many talls by picking them up at the end of the draft to get a hit, it's better value than we can find currently with what I expect our first round picks will be for a while.

Obviously we won't be best served drafting immobile trees. Realistically most of the players we will find late in the draft over 195 are going to be slow, skinny, playing more of a big half forward sort of game.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I see it the same as rucks. We need cover but you don't spend high on cover. We lost Logue because we couldn't fit him in our back 7. We lost Meek because we couldn't give him opportunities. Think a quality small forward is a much more important investment. Because if they are good they'll get opportunities. And there is plenty of room at Peel to develop them if they aren't ready yet.

edit - also, we don't have great picks so whichever talls we get with our picks are going to be extremely speculative regardless. Or have ordinary ceilings (break glass cover)

Yeah, I’d be happy with a small forward at 30 if that’s the way we go. Arguing semantics but I’d say ruck is a bit different because of the age and injury history of Pearce and Hamling. A long term development option would be perfectly timed this year IMO with the asterisk being that if we see Benning as the long term development option then it doesn’t matter

 

[Chris25]

You say that, but we literally have only 10 or 11 defenders on the list. Doesnt have to be a high pick but defence is the position we now have the least number of options for really. It's of course mitigated by the fact we seem to have our first choice 7 locked away for like 5 years

It's also what a lot of our game plan is built around - a strong backline. If Cox or Pearce were to get injured, we're suddenly in trouble. The last thing I want is for Chapman and Young to have play more defensive roles, or to be relying on Hughes again. Obviously a fit and reliable Hamling would change things - that's when you'd look towards a late/rookie pick, but who knows what's happening there.

And I wouldn't really call #30 a big investment, especially since there'll only be 50-60 picks in the draft. I think there's a decent enough chance the likes of Jed Adams and Ethan Phillips are available at our other picks...but who is this small forward we should be targeting ahead of them? Chances are the top ones will be off the board already. If someone like Darcy Jones was available, I'd take him. But if came down to a depth midfielder or a depth KPD instead, then I'm going the tall.

 

[myfreodom]

Yeah, I’d be happy with a small forward at 30 if that’s the way we go. Arguing semantics but I’d say ruck is a bit different because of the age and injury history of Pearce and Hamling. A long term development option would be perfectly timed this year IMO with the asterisk being that if we see Benning as the long term development option then it doesn’t matter

Hamling looked pretty good in the last few games. I'm not sure I could think of better injury cover for Pearce and Cox unless we had to spend a lot (ie Logue). Hamling is a lot better than any mature agers we'd find in the State leagues. I'm not sure about Benning as a KPD, I'm actually thinking grabbing Draper as a Cat B and considering him as a KPD might be a better option. I'd back in our coaches to get more out of both Benning and Kuek next season though.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It's also what a lot of our game plan is built around - a strong backline. If Cox or Pearce were to get injured, we're suddenly in trouble. The last thing I want is for Chapman and Young to have play more defensive roles, or to be relying on Hughes again. Obviously a fit and reliable Hamling would change things - that's when you'd look towards a late/rookie pick, but who knows what's happening there.

And I wouldn't really call #30 a big investment, especially since there'll only be 50-60 picks in the draft. I think there's a decent enough chance the likes of Jed Adams and Ethan Phillips are available at our other picks...but who is this small forward we should be targeting ahead of them? Chances are the top ones will be off the board already. If someone like Darcy Jones was available, I'd take him. But if came down to a depth midfielder or a depth KPD instead, then I'm going the tall.

Great minds, Jones is my choice for 30 if there and feels like there is half a chance of him to be availble.

Ya dodged my Lemmey question before so I'll rephrase, where's the lowest you see him going and do you think can be turned into a KPD if the KPF stuff failed?

 

[_007_]

IF Benning is highly rated by the club as a KPD option, then it's probably fine, otherwise I'd argue a KPD to develop for 3-4 years and play the odd game as an emergency is close to as high a priority as a small forward for me.

I would not be including Chappy in the KPD bracket personally

Obviously it's a contingency plan but I don't see why Chapman couldn't play the role if 3 of Pearce, Cox, Ryan and Hamling were injured.

 

[myfreodom]

The biggest problem with pick #30 is that Carlton have pick #29. They seem to make it their mission to go after whoever we want. So no doubt they'd take Jones if he was available.