No Oppo Supporters 2023 General AFL Discussion - incl. AFL Grand Final

[bedford]

Mods can we move this Daicos stuff , my fault as well

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I think that's the problem - the team around a player has a big say in how that individual performs. I tend not to judge players until I've seen how they've gone at both ends of the ladder - in a contender, and in a cellar dweller.

For example as good as he's been so far in his career, this was the year I needed to see from Gulden to know that he's the real deal. He'd never known being in the AFL in a side that wasn't good prior to this year. To see him in a struggling team, standing up and performing all the same (arguably better) is just so pleasing.

I'm going to run with this line of argument (because I agree with it) in regards Dylan Stephens.

He looked good in a winning side last year. In fact, he was genuinely looking like an integral part of a very good side.

This year, he looked good in round 1 & 2, as we dispatched lousy opposition.

However, since the team lost form & he's been dumped, he's looked just OK-ish in a poor VFL side.

So .... who has really stood out in our (ordinary) VFL side and thereby has shown they can perform in a dud side?

This year - I'd say Sheldrick, Wicks and Melican have done so. Hard to find many others (although Matty Roberts and Jack Buller will hopefully be added to the list by season-end).

 

[kelpie_X]

Some people should consider the point whether it is Daicos who is improving the Pies rather than the the Pies who are improving Daicos.

Sagely advice.

 

[caesar88]

Some people should consider the point whether it is Daicos who is improving the Pies rather than the the Pies who are improving Daicos.

I think the point is that it's often a symbiotic thing. Daicos might not've been as good in his first two years if he wasn't in a top 4 team the whole time. But maybe he might've. We can't know until we see how he goes in a Pies team that isn't top 4 standard.

I don't think one individual ever has that much influence on a team though to make them the best in the comp. If anyone's made the most difference to the Pies this year, it's been - begrudgingly - Tom Mitchell.

 

[caesar88]

I'm going to run with this line of argument (because I agree with it) in regards Dylan Stephens.

He looked good in a winning side last year. In fact, he was genuinely looking like an integral part of a very good side.

This year, he looked good in round 1 & 2, as we dispatched lousy opposition.

However, since the team lost form & he's been dumped, he's looked just OK-ish in a poor VFL side.

So .... who has really stood out in our (ordinary) VFL side and thereby has shown they can perform in a dud side?

This year - I'd say Sheldrick, Wicks and Melican have done so. Hard to find many others (although Matty Roberts and Jack Buller will hopefully be added to the list by season-end).

I don't know that VFL and AFL are all that comparable tbh.

 

[kickthething]

I think the point is that it's often a symbiotic thing. Daicos might not've been as good in his first two years if he wasn't in a top 4 team the whole time. But maybe he might've. We can't know until we see how he goes in a Pies team that isn't top 4 standard.

I don't think one individual ever has that much influence on a team though to make them the best in the comp. If anyone's made the most difference to the Pies this year, it's been - begrudgingly - Tom Mitchell.

I dont agree with the premise you need to see how you perform in a bottom team before you can be classified as any good. It just simply non sensical. A top flight player is a top flight player. Simple. Skill, ability and class is permanent, form may be fleeting.

He is quite possible the best player in the league at the current time. He certainly is the most influential. To be a standout player in a standout team is actually quite a feat, its not an easy thing as the suggestion seems to be....he is standing out against genuine guns.

 

[The King!]

**** we kick the can down the road a lot


Not sure how anyone doubts Daicos, he is a gun and not sure how Stephens belongs near him in a conversation in anyway


Who cares if Daicos improved the pies or they improved him, they win that's what matters .

Use your eyes the boy can play big time

 

[bedford]

I dont agree with the premise you need to see how you perform in a bottom team before you can be classified as any good. It just simply non sensical. A top flight player is a top flight player. Simple. Skill, ability and class is permanent, form may be fleeting.

He is quite possible the best player in the league at the current time. He certainly is the most influential. To be a standout player in a standout team is actually quite a feat, its not an easy thing as the suggestion seems to be....he is standing out against genuine guns.

Bob Skilton says hello , if he played in a top[ team he would've won 6 Brownlows

 

[caesar88]

I dont agree with the premise you need to see how you perform in a bottom team before you can be classified as any good. It just simply non sensical. A top flight player is a top flight player. Simple. Skill, ability and class is permanent, form may be fleeting.

He is quite possible the best player in the league at the current time. He certainly is the most influential. To be a standout player in a standout team is actually quite a feat, its not an easy thing as the suggestion seems to be....he is standing out against genuine guns.

Well you've misunderstood my post then as I never said anywhere Daicos wasn't "good". I said we don't know if he'd be AS good as he is if he was in a different team. And that's just a fact. We won't know that until we see it.

 

[caesar88]

* we kick the can down the road a lot


Not sure how anyone doubts Daicos, he is a gun and not sure how Stephens belongs near him in a conversation in anyway


Who cares if Daicos improved the pies or they improved him, they win that's what matters .

Use your eyes the boy can play big time

Not one person has said anything contrary to the bolded.

 

[kickthething]

Well you've misunderstood my post then as I never said anywhere Daicos wasn't "good". I said we don't know if he'd be AS good as he is if he was in a different team. And that's just a fact. We won't know that until we see it.

Understood it perfectly, and I disagree with the premise. You have definitely questioned whether he is good by the statement you proposed....it in itself qualifies his level of good in your eyes. It just does not hold water that he needs to be seen in a different team to discover how good he really is. He is an elite player and will be for some time in this league. Its a legitimate argument right now as to whether he is the best in the league, most likely next year it wont be an argument a all.

 

[caesar88]

Understood it perfectly, and I disagree with the premise. You have definitely questioned whether he is good by the statement you proposed....it in itself qualifies his level of good in your eyes. It just does not hold water that he needs to be seen in a different team to discover how good he really is. He is an elite player and will be for some time in this league. Its a legitimate argument right now as to whether he is the best in the league, most likely next year it wont be an argument a all.

I agree he's arguably the best in the comp at the moment. Have to agree to disagree on the rest.

 

[The King!]

Not one person has said anything contrary to the bolded.

Didn't mean they had , as always I appreciated your part of the conversation. I just meant we can analyse how he is good and how is effective. You hear talk in the media he gets easy ball, or they block for him etc etc

Sometimes it is just simple and they are good

 

[scaryness]

Completely random but Nick Bryan at Essendon is my pick to be the next great young ruckman.
He had his best game so far this last week and he was a stand out athlete even as a 16 year old, which could see him be more of a Tim English style ruck-mid.

Might take a few more years yet, but I bought his stock a while ago.

 

[Punts]

See Harley Reid has told wce he won’t go there

 

[scaryness]

See Harley Reid has told wce he won’t go there

The national draft continues to collapse into obsoletion

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

See Harley Reid has told wce he won’t go there

He can sit out for the year for draft tampering.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

See Harley Reid has told wce he won’t go there

West Coast should advise Harley that they didn’t want him anyway & hope he enjoys his career at Norf.

 

[Kiama Chris]

New draft process.
Rank the players. Twomey will do.
Let them choose the club they want to go to.
Three players per club. Once they have their three that's it for them.
Leftovers to the rookie draft.
Rerank, same process, maximum two per club.
No father son, academy, NGA, priority etc.
We could have a list composed entirely of HBFs.

 

[hairy biker]

See Harley Reid has told wce he won’t go there

Back in 1992 Brett Chalmers told other clubs he only wanted to play for Collingwood and would stay in the SANFL if selected to go to another club.
Selected by the Pies at pick 10.
AFL stepped in, fined Chalmers $30k and deemed him ineligible to play for the Pies for 3 years.
End of year traded to Adelaide.

Sure probably more blatant draft tampering, but geez the list of players in the draft now telling clubs they won't move interstate (ie generally out of Victoria) is seemingly increasing and the AFL does bugger all. Perhaps the AFL fears court action regarding restraint of trade, but it's certainly an issue that they are happy to turn a blind eye too.

An argument has been made that having the Collective Bargaining Agreement would help alleviate concerns on restraint of trade, but of course draftees are not 'officially' a party to that agreement under they are actually selected.

NB (from the draft nomination booklet)
A player selected by a club can apply to the Appeal Board to be released from the club that has selected him on the grounds of exceptional and compelling circumstances
which make it harsh and unconscionable for the player to remain bound to that club.

 

[Bloods86]

Back in 1992 Brett Chalmers told other clubs he only wanted to play for Collingwood and would stay in the SANFL if selected to go to another club.
Selected by the Pies at pick 10.
AFL stepped in, fined Chalmers $30k and deemed him ineligible to play for the Pies for 3 years.
End of year traded to Adelaide.

Sure probably more blatant draft tampering, but geez the list of players in the draft now telling clubs they won't move interstate (ie generally out of Victoria) is seemingly increasing and the AFL does bugger all. Perhaps the AFL fears court action regarding restraint of trade, but it's certainly an issue that they are happy to turn a blind eye too.

An argument has been made that having the Collective Bargaining Agreement would help alleviate concerns on restraint of trade, but of course draftees are not 'officially' a party to that agreement under they are actually selected.

You can bet the league would do something if a player from QLD or NSW told Vic clubs they didn't want to go there because of the fishbowl experience.

 

[the hypnotoad]

You can bet the league would do something if a player from QLD or NSW told Vic clubs they didn't want to go there because of the fishbowl experience.

oh yeah, can you imagine the outcry in victoria if a swans academy player declared he wasn't leaving sydney ... no idea if it's even possible under whatever rules, it surely would breach some rule or other ... but if a high-ranking nsw kid tried it ...???

 

[BloodySwan]

No 1 draft pick says he won't leave Vic, but the academies are the problem.

 

[caesar88]

Honestly the wins over the Bulldogs from last Friday night just keep coming

 

[DeathlyAccurate]

The national draft continues to collapse into obsoletion

Pathetic, complete draft tampering in favor of Victorian clubs and it won’t change.


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