List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)

[PeterSalt]

Do you have a link to the article? I can't find anything on Google or the AFL website. Not doubting you, just trying to find the article you referenced.

From the article below:

"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

There's a link in the post above

 

[119others]

TBH offering our 3 x 1st round picks this year for the WC F1 is growing on me.

I can't see North or Hawthorn being worse, in fact they are more likely to move up the ladder then down IMO. Freo's not great but their midfield will win them games. WC are the ones I don't see winning games in 2024. And you could argue this is the same bounty of picks the Vic teams are offering, only without giving up Harley Reid.

Could probably still snake a few SA players like Moir, Goad, Delean after pick 30 this year. But have a genuine shot at a top 3 pick in a stronger midfield draft + Welsh.

That fact that it would stitch up a Vic team and make the Vic media miserable is an added bonus!

Agree IF they would accept that and then we pick up Moir and the SA ruck at 25-35 With other picks swap. Not sure Weagles even accept that deal though for what may well be (bookies fave) to be pick one next year. i actually think we may even need to do a F1 pick swap with them also as part of the deal and perhaps keep pick 20 this year.

Crows in : Weagles F1 (very likely pick 1 or 2), perhaps their pick 23 this year
Crows out : 10, 14, F1

we get Draper next year - our long term elite mid SA, and reportedly Crows fan and an abundance of points in second /third round to take Welsh who is currently being talked about going 10-18. Let’s just ensure he doesn’t rip the competition up and finish top 3 next year. IF Draper is only likely to go perhaps pick 4 or 5, then we downgrade our pick one to say a pick 4 or 5 and receive a future first also.

this year Moir and ruck. Next year Draper and Welsh and use 25 First on getting Petty or some other class in. Plus any half decent FA throw the cheque book at (unlikely Mc Cluggage comes though). Rebuild pretty well done

 

[Mostyn]

Sloane was on the bench because he's physically incapable of running out a full game, not because they were unhappy with how he was playing.

I'm not sure why people make guesses and speak about them like they're documented truth.

I can't imagine Nicks took you aside and said that to you.

 

[George Kramer]

I'm not sure why people make guesses and speak about them like they're documented truth.

I can't imagine Nicks took you aside and said that to you.

You don’t?

 

[George Kramer]

Sloane was on the bench because he's physically incapable of running out a full game, not because they were unhappy with how he was playing.

Given how his B&F voting plummeted I don’t think they were too happy which meant his ongoing selection and re-signing madness.

 

[1970crow]

Given how his B&F voting plummeted I don’t think they were too happy which meant his ongoing selection and re-signing madness.

Sloane knew going public guaranteed an extra year. I think Reid possibly had him going the way of Talia, Lynch and Brown, but I doubt the same appetite existed in Nicks and at board level.

 

[Crow_68]

Yes thats right

1 Jones
2 Keays
3 Berry
4 Murphy
5 Crouch
6 Thilthorpe
7 RAchele
8. Sloane
9 Pedlar
10 Dawson
11 Walker
12 Soligo
13 Cook
14 Burgess
15 Michalanney
16 Hamill
17 Taylor
18 Hinge
19 Rankine
20 Worrell
21 McHenry
22 Schoenberg
23 Nankervis
24 Murray
25 Laird
26 Milera
27 Dowling
28 Fogarty
29 Smith
30 Himmelberg
31 Sholl
32 Bond
33 Butts
34 O'Brien
35 Gollant
36 Strachan

37 Keane
38 Parnell

Thanks!

Definitely should be delisting Hamill and adding to the Rookie List if he gets through. He’s gone at the end of 2024 anyway.

Borlase as a rookie if he gets through.

10, 14 and 20 to the draft. Just not sure anyone in the top 10 will trade for 14 and 20, and giving up 10 and 20 to move up 2-3 spots may not be worth it.

 

[baldandbroke]

We've been in the dust for five years. The status quo is that we're not near the pace.

We need to improve. We did not improve throughout this period. You can see the concern.

I understand the concern ... I've been here since the start too.

Looking at 2024 - not a terrible cross-section for a team looking to get back into the finals: Adelaide Playing List for 2024 - Draftguru

Still very green, so unless we do a baby bombers ... I think we have another trade period to deal with before we are hunting the flag. With Tex walking towards the cliff edge, we don't have much choice but to push as hard as we can over the next 2 sesons.

I agree, in a better world, we would have added another experienced guaranteed best 22 player, but I'm not sure who we missed out on in this trade period though ... 2023 AFL Draft and Trade Period - Draftguru

I don't see too much coming from the delisted free agents list either: AFL Delistings 2023: Who was dropped from your club this offseason?

Who traded so well that they pushed us down a rung? Which team used the trade period to make our job in 2024 so much harder?

North Melbourne are the only other club with 3 or more first round picks in 2023 - so we at least did ok in that regard - I suppose the kicker will be what we can turn that into ... and will it be the reason we finally break the drought in the coming years?

 

[George Kramer]

I understand the concern ... I've been here since the start too.

Looking at 2024 - not a terrible cross-section for a team looking to get back into the finals: Adelaide Playing List for 2024 - Draftguru

Still very green, so unless we do a baby bombers ... I think we have another trade period to deal with before we are hunting the flag. With Tex walking towards the cliff edge, we don't have much choice but to push as hard as we can over the next 2 sesons.

I agree, in a better world, we would have added another experienced guaranteed best 22 player, but I'm not sure we missed out on in this trade period though ... 2023 AFL Draft and Trade Period - Draftguru

I don't see too much coming from the delisted free agents list either: AFL Delistings 2023: Who was dropped from your club this offseason?

Who traded so well that they pushed us down a rung? Which team used the trade period to make our job in 2024 so much harder?

North Melbourne are the only other club with 3 or more first round picks in 2023 - so we at least did ok in that regard - I suppose the kicker will be what we can turn that into ... and will it be the reason we finally break the drought in a the coming years?

Swans, Port, Essendon, Brisbane, Pies and Hawks all improved their best 22

 

[Peter Wallis]

I understand the concern ... I've been here since the start too.

Looking at 2024 - not a terrible cross-section for a team looking to get back into the finals: Adelaide Playing List for 2024 - Draftguru

Still very green, so unless we do a baby bombers ... I think we have another trade period to deal with before we are hunting the flag. With Tex walking towards the cliff edge, we don't have much choice but to push as hard as we can over the next 2 sesons.

I agree, in a better world, we would have added another experienced guaranteed best 22 player, but I'm not sure who we missed out on in this trade period though ... 2023 AFL Draft and Trade Period - Draftguru

I don't see too much coming from the delisted free agents list either: AFL Delistings 2023: Who was dropped from your club this offseason?

Who traded so well that they pushed us down a rung? Which team used the trade period to make our job in 2024 so much harder?

North Melbourne are the only other club with 3 or more first round picks in 2023 - so we at least did ok in that regard - I suppose the kicker will be what we can turn that into ... and will it be the reason we finally break the drought in the coming years?

From the outside looking in, I would much prefer the list of Adelaide to Port. You have an exciting young group with so much internal growth to come and the likelihood of a couple of handy draft picks this year. Port on the other hand are an aging list trying to top up on B graders and are largely ignoring youth in the quest for a flag they aren't realistically going to win.
Adelaide should play finals next year and really challenge from 2025 onwards.

 

[skittlebrew]

For the love of Klug take that back!

Keep reading, I did in a later post ahah

Daryl Baldock went ok

eh wayyyy before my time

 

[MRB37]

I'm not sure why people make guesses and speak about them like they're documented truth.

I can't imagine Nicks took you aside and said that to you.

Sloane said it himself. They asked him on 5AA about continuing to play AFL and he said since he's a senior player it's about managing his minutes to make sure his body can hold up so they "still get the absolutely best and most powerful Rory Sloane".

 

[1970crow]

Sloane said it himself. They asked him on 5AA about continuing to play AFL and he said since he's a senior player it's about managing his minutes to make sure his body can hold up so they "still get the absolutely best and most powerful Rory Sloane".

It’s a very self centred (Rory) and short sighted (coaches) way to look at it. Maximising Rory at low minutes doesn’t occur in a vacuum, those minutes need to be covered by others within the rotation. Regardless of that, we’re trying to be more damaging with ball out of the contest and we’ve got a guy that can’t do anything outside of hot potato or hack kicks because he’s lost the ability/confidence to hold onto the ball. Which happened about 3 years ago.

 

[George Kramer]

It’s a very self centred (Rory) and short sighted (coaches) way to look at it. Maximising Rory at low minutes doesn’t occur in a vacuum, those minutes need to be covered by others within the rotation. Regardless of that, we’re trying to be more damaging with ball out of the contest and we’ve got a guy that can’t do anything outside of hot potato or hack kicks because he’s lost the ability/confidence to hold onto the ball. Which happened about 3 years ago.

Exactly and it didn’t work anyway, his form sucked from about the Essendon game, play his reactions and speed slowed down, he made rookie errors with and without the ball and cost us the Pies game with that 50 to Daicos because he couldn’t keep up and panicked

 

[1970crow]

Exactly and it didn’t work anyway, his firm sucked from about the Essendon game, play his reactions and speed slowed down, he made rookie errors with and without the ball and cost us the Pies game with that 50 to Daicos because he couldn’t keep up and panicked

When you’re carrying a liability and lose by less than a goal, selection has cost the game.

 

[crow2crow]

Agree IF they would accept that and then we pick up Moir and the SA ruck at 25-35 With other picks swap. Not sure Weagles even accept that deal though for what may well be (bookies fave) to be pick one next year. i actually think we may even need to do a F1 pick swap with them also as part of the deal and perhaps keep pick 20 this year.

Crows in : Weagles F1 (very likely pick 1 or 2), perhaps their pick 23 this year
Crows out : 10, 14, F1

we get Draper next year - our long term elite mid SA, and reportedly Crows fan and an abundance of points in second /third round to take Welsh who is currently being talked about going 10-18. Let’s just ensure he doesn’t rip the competition up and finish top 3 next year. IF Draper is only likely to go perhaps pick 4 or 5, then we downgrade our pick one to say a pick 4 or 5 and receive a future first also.

this year Moir and ruck. Next year Draper and Welsh and use 25 First on getting Petty or some other class in. Plus any half decent FA throw the cheque book at (unlikely Mc Cluggage comes though). Rebuild pretty well done

I dont mind this either but I think you want another early second back this year
Get something like schoenmaker, goad, moir this year to address list needs / outs and then as you said for next year

I really cant get excited about this draft at all

 

[baldandbroke]

Swans, Port, Essendon, Brisbane, Pies and Hawks all improved their best 22

Jeez George - we are talking possible slight improvements by trades for most of those teams. Which player would you have wanted in the list of traded players below. I'd take McAdam

Adelaide
Draft picks: 10, 14, 20, 89
Traded in: Chris Burgess
Traded out: Tom Doedee (FA), Shane McAdam
List changes: Tyler Brown (del), Jackson Hately (del), Fischer McAsey (ret), Andrew McPherson (del), Tariek Newchurch (del), Paul Seedsman (ret)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks improved.

Swans
Draft picks: 12, 45, 55, 91
Traded in: Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy, Joel Hamling, James Jordon
Traded out: Dylan Stephens
List changes: Ryan Clarke (del), Will Gould (del), Hugo Hall-Kahan (del), Lance Franklin (ret), Tom Hickey (ret), Paddy McCartin (ret), Cameron Owen (del), Lachlan Rankin (del), Marc Sheather (del)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, draft picks not improved.

Port
Draft picks: 73
Traded in: Esava Ratugolea, Ivan Soldo, Jordon Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
Traded out: Xavier Duursma
List changes: Nathan Barkla (del), Riley Bonner (del), Trent Dumont (del), Tom Jonas (ret), Brynn Teakle (del)
Result: Best 22 maybe slightly improved by trades, draft picks devastated.

Essendon
Draft picks: 9, 31, 35, 61, 73, 88
Traded in: Todd Goldstein, Jade Gresham, Ben McKay, Xavier Duursma
Traded out: Massimo D’Ambrosio, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
List changes: Alastair Lord (del), Cian McBride (del), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (ret), Rhett Montgomerie (del), Anthony Munkara (del), Andrew Phillips (ret)
Result: Best 22 maybe improved by trades, draft picks ok.

Brisbane
Draft picks: 30, 39, 51, 54, 67, 97
Traded in: Tom Doedee, Brandon Ryan
Traded out: Tom Fullarton, Jack Gunston
List changes: Marcus Adams (ret), Daniel Rich (ret)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, drafts picks lessened.

Pies
Draft picks: 19, 33, 80, 98
Traded in: Lachie Schultz
Traded out: Taylor Adams, Jack Ginnivan
List changes: Trent Bianco (del), Arlo Draper (del), Cooper Murley (del), Trey Ruscoe (del), Tom Wilson (del)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks ok.

Hawks
Draft picks: 4, 44, 47, 49, 62, 63, 83
Traded in: Massimo D’Ambrosio, Mabior Chol, Jack Ginnivan, Jack Gunston
Traded out: Tyler Brockman, Jacob Koschitzke, Brandon Ryan
List changes: Emerson Jeka (del), Max Lynch (ret), Josh Morris (del), Fionn O’Hara (del)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, drafts picks lessened.

 

[George Kramer]

Jeez George - we are talking possible slight improvements by trades for most of those teams. Which player would you have wanted in the list of traded players below. I'd take McAdam

Adelaide
Draft picks: 10, 14, 20, 89
Traded in: Chris Burgess
Traded out: Tom Doedee (FA), Shane McAdam
List changes: Tyler Brown (del), Jackson Hately (del), Fischer McAsey (ret), Andrew McPherson (del), Tariek Newchurch (del), Paul Seedsman (ret)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks improved.

Swans
Draft picks: 12, 45, 55, 91
Traded in: Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy, Joel Hamling, James Jordon
Traded out: Dylan Stephens
List changes: Ryan Clarke (del), Will Gould (del), Hugo Hall-Kahan (del), Lance Franklin (ret), Tom Hickey (ret), Paddy McCartin (ret), Cameron Owen (del), Lachlan Rankin (del), Marc Sheather (del)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, draft picks not improved.

Port
Draft picks: 73
Traded in: Esava Ratugolea, Ivan Soldo, Jordon Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
Traded out: Xavier Duursma
List changes: Nathan Barkla (del), Riley Bonner (del), Trent Dumont (del), Tom Jonas (ret), Brynn Teakle (del)
Result: Best 22 maybe slightly improved by trades, draft picks devastated.

Essendon
Draft picks: 9, 31, 35, 61, 73, 88
Traded in: Todd Goldstein, Jade Gresham, Ben McKay, Xavier Duursma
Traded out: Massimo D’Ambrosio, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
List changes: Alastair Lord (del), Cian McBride (del), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (ret), Rhett Montgomerie (del), Anthony Munkara (del), Andrew Phillips (ret)
Result: Best 22 maybe improved by trades, draft picks ok.

Brisbane
Draft picks: 30, 39, 51, 54, 67, 97
Traded in: Tom Doedee, Brandon Ryan
Traded out: Tom Fullarton, Jack Gunston
List changes: Marcus Adams (ret), Daniel Rich (ret)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, drafts picks lessened.

Pies
Draft picks: 19, 33, 80, 98
Traded in: Lachie Schultz
Traded out: Taylor Adams, Jack Ginnivan
List changes: Trent Bianco (del), Arlo Draper (del), Cooper Murley (del), Trey Ruscoe (del), Tom Wilson (del)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks ok.

Hawks
Draft picks: 4, 44, 47, 49, 62, 63, 83
Traded in: Massimo D’Ambrosio, Mabior Chol, Jack Ginnivan, Jack Gunston
Traded out: Tyler Brockman, Jacob Koschitzke, Brandon Ryan
List changes: Emerson Jeka (del), Max Lynch (ret), Josh Morris (del), Fionn O’Hara (del)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, drafts picks lessened.

Appreciate the effort but it’s all subjective as to how much those players will improve their teams.

No one would have dreamt of Bobby Hill winning the Norm Smith this time last year

 

[GROTTO]

Jeez George - we are talking possible slight improvements by trades for most of those teams. Which player would you have wanted in the list of traded players below. I'd take McAdam

Adelaide
Draft picks: 10, 14, 20, 89
Traded in: Chris Burgess
Traded out: Tom Doedee (FA), Shane McAdam
List changes: Tyler Brown (del), Jackson Hately (del), Fischer McAsey (ret), Andrew McPherson (del), Tariek Newchurch (del), Paul Seedsman (ret)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks improved.


Port
Draft picks: 73
Traded in: Esava Ratugolea, Ivan Soldo, Jordon Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
Traded out: Xavier Duursma
List changes: Nathan Barkla (del), Riley Bonner (del), Trent Dumont (del), Tom Jonas (ret), Brynn Teakle (del)
Result: Best 22 maybe slightly improved by trades, draft picks devastated.

Appreciate the effort but it’s all subjective as to how much those players will improve their teams.

No one would have dreamt of Bobby Hill winning the Norm Smith this time last year

Im not 100% convinced Port have improved their best 22, in many ways I feel like Port have gone with a like for like replacement of players in terms of skill without actually improving the quality of their 22.

Sure Esava may free up Aliir, but coaches have also come up with strategies to make those intercepting players more accountable.

As a big forward, having Esava instead of Aliir match up on you, is more or less a like for like. Neither is elite.

 

[baldandbroke]

Appreciate the effort but it’s all subjective as to how much those players will improve their teams.

Saying they improved their 22 is no different.

I wasn't trying to change your mind.

<EDIT> You didn't say which of those players you wanted on our list ...

 

[George Kramer]

Saying they improved their 22 is no different.

I wasn't trying to change your mind.

<EDIT> You didn't say which of those players you wanted on our list ...

Might be having 2 different discussions here. I’m not looking at who I would trade in, I’m merely saying I believe those clubs have improved their sides, how much time will tell, but at least they’ve made efforts to

 

[UcantCme]

Jeez George - we are talking possible slight improvements by trades for most of those teams. Which player would you have wanted in the list of traded players below. I'd take McAdam

Adelaide
Draft picks: 10, 14, 20, 89
Traded in: Chris Burgess
Traded out: Tom Doedee (FA), Shane McAdam
List changes: Tyler Brown (del), Jackson Hately (del), Fischer McAsey (ret), Andrew McPherson (del), Tariek Newchurch (del), Paul Seedsman (ret)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks improved.

Swans
Draft picks: 12, 45, 55, 91
Traded in: Taylor Adams, Brodie Grundy, Joel Hamling, James Jordon
Traded out: Dylan Stephens
List changes: Ryan Clarke (del), Will Gould (del), Hugo Hall-Kahan (del), Lance Franklin (ret), Tom Hickey (ret), Paddy McCartin (ret), Cameron Owen (del), Lachlan Rankin (del), Marc Sheather (del)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, draft picks not improved.

Port
Draft picks: 73
Traded in: Esava Ratugolea, Ivan Soldo, Jordon Sweet, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
Traded out: Xavier Duursma
List changes: Nathan Barkla (del), Riley Bonner (del), Trent Dumont (del), Tom Jonas (ret), Brynn Teakle (del)
Result: Best 22 maybe slightly improved by trades, draft picks devastated.

Essendon
Draft picks: 9, 31, 35, 61, 73, 88
Traded in: Todd Goldstein, Jade Gresham, Ben McKay, Xavier Duursma
Traded out: Massimo D’Ambrosio, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher
List changes: Alastair Lord (del), Cian McBride (del), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (ret), Rhett Montgomerie (del), Anthony Munkara (del), Andrew Phillips (ret)
Result: Best 22 maybe improved by trades, draft picks ok.

Brisbane
Draft picks: 30, 39, 51, 54, 67, 97
Traded in: Tom Doedee, Brandon Ryan
Traded out: Tom Fullarton, Jack Gunston
List changes: Marcus Adams (ret), Daniel Rich (ret)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, drafts picks lessened.

Pies
Draft picks: 19, 33, 80, 98
Traded in: Lachie Schultz
Traded out: Taylor Adams, Jack Ginnivan
List changes: Trent Bianco (del), Arlo Draper (del), Cooper Murley (del), Trey Ruscoe (del), Tom Wilson (del)
Result: Best 22 not improved by trades, draft picks ok.

Hawks
Draft picks: 4, 44, 47, 49, 62, 63, 83
Traded in: Massimo D’Ambrosio, Mabior Chol, Jack Ginnivan, Jack Gunston
Traded out: Tyler Brockman, Jacob Koschitzke, Brandon Ryan
List changes: Emerson Jeka (del), Max Lynch (ret), Josh Morris (del), Fionn O’Hara (del)
Result: Best 22 slightly improved by trades, drafts picks lessened.

improved or not improved is nothing more than names on paper


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[baldandbroke]

Might be having 2 different discussions here. I’m not looking at who I would trade in, I’m merely saying I believe those clubs have improved their sides, how much time will tell, but at least they’ve made efforts to

Yep - so you don't think we made efforts AND we all admit that we do not have a clue if any of these changes will improve anyone?

 

[baldandbroke]

improved or not improved is nothing more than names on paper


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agreed. George was saying those clubs improved ... I was more of the opinion that there were no major improvements directly as a result of trades.

 

[Mostyn]

Thanks!

Definitely should be delisting Hamill and adding to the Rookie List if he gets through. He’s gone at the end of 2024 anyway.

Borlase as a rookie if he gets through.

10, 14 and 20 to the draft. Just not sure anyone in the top 10 will trade for 14 and 20, and giving up 10 and 20 to move up 2-3 spots may not be worth it.

I'm not sure 10 and 20 would get you 8, to be fair.

 

[1970crow]

Im not 100% convinced Port have improved their best 22, in many ways I feel like Port have gone with a like for like replacement of players in terms of skill without actually improving the quality of their 22.

Sure Esava may free up Aliir, but coaches have also come up with strategies to make those intercepting players more accountable.

As a big forward, having Esava instead of Aliir match up on you, is more or less a like for like. Neither is elite.

Esava isn’t replacing Aliir in the 22. Esava is an improvement on the player who would otherwise be in the best 22 but will instead be playing for the Magpies.