There's a link in the post aboveFrom the article below:
"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."
Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)
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At this stage I’d still have Butts ahead, assuming he can get niggle-free.
The one positive to Murray’s injury though, is that we’ll have plenty of time to see who the best option is until he returns.
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That includes Murray himself. He was in All-Australian form before his injury but there's no guarantees that will still be the case with an ACL. That’s why I’m surprised Brisbane went all out with Doedee.
Butts just hasn't developed anywhere near as much as I hoped he would. That's probably partly due to injury, but it may also be to him hitting a ceiling which wasn't as high as I was hoping.
In contrast, Murray has come along magnificently, and was tracking towards being an AA-standard player until injury struck. Fingers crossed he comes back the same player, after 12 months out due to the ACL injury.
I thought Keane showed plenty in the games he played late last year. I think his body is more suited to AFL than Butts', and I thought he played really well for a player with his limited experience. I think he has scope to pass Butts, and to do so fairly quickly, though I have no doubt he will be starting the season behind him in the pecking order.
Hes not in front of Butts, Worrell, Murray when all fit
coincidental or not this comment from todays Hun article re draft week happenings involved a picture of JR...if so, reminds me of the grainy footage of his old man using a few colourful words recently shares on this forum
The news hounds are always on the hunt for a scoop, and spend the fortnight working the phones hard.
There’s repeat texts, unanswered calls, knock backs and social media red herrings.
And there was some frustration which came to the surface in one particular press conference on Wednesday night at Marvel Stadium when a journo asked some pointy questions of a particular club’s list manager.
Safe to say the list boss, who had a tricky week, gave the scribe a stare down and a little clip as he left the press pack to ensure his feelings about some of the questioning was made clear.
Thankfully, the microphone had already been switched off.
While the stress levels can go up a notch in the silly season, there’s unlikely to be any lingering hard feelings.
The media scrum at a Crows press conference. Picture: Michael Willson/Getty
The Hail Mary, the miracle cure, the long shot all come to play as players strive to find new homes and clubs look to squeeze the lemon on deals.
And sometimes there is a saviour.
One particular manager earned the nickname “The Wizard” for his efforts to get two deals done in this year’s trade period, having been in the trade trenches for days overcoming personality quirks, road locks and day after day of repeated knock backs.
So if there is to be a best on ground medal to be awarded, it might be TLA’s Matt Bain.
THE CLIP
Trade week can test the relationships between the journo pack and the list management fraternity.The news hounds are always on the hunt for a scoop, and spend the fortnight working the phones hard.
There’s repeat texts, unanswered calls, knock backs and social media red herrings.
And there was some frustration which came to the surface in one particular press conference on Wednesday night at Marvel Stadium when a journo asked some pointy questions of a particular club’s list manager.
Safe to say the list boss, who had a tricky week, gave the scribe a stare down and a little clip as he left the press pack to ensure his feelings about some of the questioning was made clear.
Thankfully, the microphone had already been switched off.
While the stress levels can go up a notch in the silly season, there’s unlikely to be any lingering hard feelings.
The media scrum at a Crows press conference. Picture: Michael Willson/Getty
THE FLASHBACK
The Jack Ginnivan situation will feel familiar in a sense for the crew at Kapital Sports.THE WIZARD
Sometimes clubs need to pull a rabbit out of the hat at trade time.The Hail Mary, the miracle cure, the long shot all come to play as players strive to find new homes and clubs look to squeeze the lemon on deals.
And sometimes there is a saviour.
One particular manager earned the nickname “The Wizard” for his efforts to get two deals done in this year’s trade period, having been in the trade trenches for days overcoming personality quirks, road locks and day after day of repeated knock backs.
So if there is to be a best on ground medal to be awarded, it might be TLA’s Matt Bain.
We are the only club that has more than two first rounders outside of North ...
West Coast don't need pick #1, they only need pick #2.
If North don't draft Reid, they will never get him - they need pick #1.
Surely we can help North get enough of an offer together that they can get #1 - keep multiple first rounders - help West Coast get Curtin at #2 and have multiple first rounders - and we get a pick in the top 3?
We do not need our F1 as much as we need to move up this year.
Currently:
West Coast - 1, 23, 37 (4298 points) Futures - F1, F2, F3, F4
North - 2, 3, 15, 17, 18 (7873 points) Futures - F1, F2, F3, F4
Adelaide - 10, 14, 20 (3468 points) Futures - F1, F2, F2, F3, F4
I know points are irrelevant in this type of scenario - but I added them because they were there ... what if we got to something like:
West Coast - 2, 10, 14, 37 (5556 points) Futures - F1, F1(ADL), F3, F4
North - 1, 15, 17, 18, 20 (7034 points) Futures - F1, F2, F3, F4
Adelaide - 3, 23 (3049 points) Futures - F2 (WC), F2, F2, F3, F4
Who says no?
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BigBoSS_Riot
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So West Coast loses 1, 23 and their F2 and gains 2, 10, 14 and Adelaide's F1? They almost certainly say no. And if a trade involves both of North's 2 and 3, West Coast says no to any trade that doesn't involve both of those picks going to them.
We lose 10, 14, 20 and our F1 for 3, 23 and WCE F2? I don't know about the club, but I'd say no. Who would we even take at 3 anyway?
North lose 2 and 3 to gain 1 and 20. They say no. Curtin and whoever they take at 3 (probably McKercher at this stage) is worth more to them than Reid.
So if everyone says no, it’s balanced?
West Coast gain 2 extra first round picks, get their player at 2 … and upgrade for 2024.
North get pick 1, which has a cost - and still have a ridiculous number of low picks.
We get the next best player after Reid and Curtin … and gain the pick that starts R2. We only have two picks to use in the draft this year - we move from our first to the likely spoon winners second next year.
BigBoSS_Riot
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Balanced? Not really, I think North lose more than the other two. Point is, I see this as a downgrade for every team involved.
If West Coast wanted 'their player' in Curtin... they could just take him at 1. The fact is, they want (and need) Reid more. The only way you get pick 1 off them is by directly giving them both 2 and 3, which this trade doesn't do. A bunch of mid-range first rounders in a draft that every expert says drops off directly after the first 8-10 isn't going to do it for them.
North wouldn't be stupid enough to give up 2 and 3 for 1, it's a pointless trade for them to make. And that's ignoring the fact that, based on needs, they need Curtin more than Reid anyway - they have loads of young midfielders, and are now the worst team in terms of KPDs. They lose badly in this trade.
You are yet to name who we would take at 3. Realistically, the options are McKercher, Duursma and Watson. In my opinion, none of those are worth all of 10, 14, downgrading 20 to 23 AND downgrading our F1 to WCE's F2. This is the only arguable one really, the other two are about as objective as you can get.
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I don't hate it for us - but I think you're right in your analysis.
Weird thing is - Curtin may not be top five on talent according to some judges, but he might be more attractive to both WCE and NM than Reid currently is.
This is the main question. Do they actually, really, truly want to take Reid?
They have to say they do, or their bargaining position is damaged. But if they don’t really want to take Reid (and obviously North do) then they should try to get some extra value out of pick 1.
They’d be crazy to ‘just take’ curtain at 1 if everyone else values Reid way higher. The sensible thing to do in that case is to try to get some or all of the extra value North places on Reid.
BigBoSS_Riot
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I'm very confident that WCE do want Reid, which is why they should only be accepting a king's ransom (2 and 3 at a minimum) in return. That's more than he'll ever be worth to North Melbourne, who are already well equipped with talented young midfielders.
And after the picks North rejected for JHF (4, ADEL F1, MELB F1 - effectively 6 in 2021, 6 in 2022, 16 in 2022), I think the Eagles are well within their rights to reject anything below 2 and 3.
Just a spitball throw the picks in the air to pass the time.
I’m not attached.
Trying to see how we could get involved, do we add anything … Probably not.
Watson is the reason I’d try to get ahead of the bulldogs, but that’s pretty much just gut feel based on the very limited amounts I have seen.
If we don’t try and move up, then i guess we try and push for more picks in 2024 … which doesn’t fit in my mind with our current trajectory
BigBoSS_Riot
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I've always wondered about the interest some users have in Watson. I take it you're one of those who is keen on having him in to guarantee one of Pedlar/Rachele/Rankine is rotating through the midfield? I honestly don't mind it as an idea, I just wouldn't want to give up that much to get him.
I don't really see an issue with taking the three picks we have now into the draft, but I wouldn't say no to losing one of them if a certain team gave us a good offer on draft night.
I just see Watson as being very very high talent.
He has got his name in the mix for a top 5 pick at 170cm?? That is not easy.
He seems to be a clutch player that can kill you in a quarter. I like that ability to impact.
What he is really good at won’t be easy to take away from him.
Some of the big bodied players at lower levels get eaten up at AFL level, same for contested marking … Watson’s ground ball work, the way he finds space and his hands in close look like they will translate well to AFL. Imo.
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Here is @gotiges2015 consensus rankings, where they pull together the main public rankings.
Curtin has been ranked 5/5/6/5.
No one seems to have him rates higher on talent yet, but he'll probably be taken earlier.
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I took from that Parnell is definitely still on the rookie list.
Kane McGoodwin
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He doesn't really warrant upgrading.
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The question is whether he had to be, not whether we'd want to.
It's been unclear whether the AFL had approved the extra rookie year for msd players.
anyfourcrowseyed
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A little bit irrelevant, but if WC slide to 2, from what I've seen, they'll be going Mckercher (not Curtin)
I'm a little bit worried about us sitting on our hands with 10, 14, 20, F1 since the depth 10 on wards is light (love moving up to 6 or 8 (don't mind moving into future as well)
but historically we've been pretty proactive in the pick swaps
I'm a little bit worried about us sitting on our hands with 10, 14, 20, F1 since the depth 10 on wards is light (love moving up to 6 or 8 (don't mind moving into future as well)
but historically we've been pretty proactive in the pick swaps
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Mate, good effort. Not sure how others would say no for all 3 clubs haha. It’s a zero sum game , naturally winners and losers.
Crows definitely do it, we get our one elite mid.
WeagLes, probably do it. Gain 10 and 14 and a probable mid ranked F1. With good WA boys around 10-16 that’s attractive
Kanagas, get Reid but perhaps the least likely as slide from 2 elite to one elite youngsters. i understand the premium needed for pick one but think they are the team that needs another top 10-12 back
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North have a lot of teen picks in that scenario - they could still trade up.
True and Cats the obvious target to take 2/3 of Kangas late first rounders and then Kangas end up with 8. And Reid.
I actually think the overall trade scenario works pretty well for all involved,
Other option Dees trade 6 and 11 for pick 3 from Kangas. Kangas give pick 2 and 6 to Weagles for pick one. Sufficient return for Weagles IMO. Kangas get Reid and all their plethora of late first rounders (and newly acquired pick 11 from Dees) that again they bundle up a few for Cats pick 8. Dees end up with Mc Kerchner or whoever they rate as third best available. I can see this working for most clubs also
interesting on the night how the top 10 plays out
BigBoSS_Riot
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You seriously believe that West Coast would see that North are willing to give up 2 and 3, yet accept a deal where they don't get both? It'd make them look stupid to do that.
Do you really think that North values Reid higher than Curtin and McKercher* combined? They would want at least pick 6 back (or just anything before Melbourne's pick).
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I don't know if it makes them stupid, but in that trade NM essentially gives up 2 and 3 for 1 and 20.
It'd be simpler to talk directly.
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