List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread - Pt2 Now With Added Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth

[Lore]

Hello Dockers fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

 

[ubiquitous226]

All this talk of McDonald when we are missing a good wing, classy mids, a small forward and depth in our backline.
McDonald should be the last player we chase.

I'd argue Brodie Grundy is the last player we should chase, although I largely agree.

It feels like we'd get more bang for buck right now trying to fill other list gaps than KPF (still feels weird to say..).

 

[Purple Suit]

I think we underestimate the natural growth and development of a very young side.

Yes, a couple of spots have left but who out of: Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy, Jackson, Young, Chapman, Clark, Johnson, Erasmus, Amiss, Treacy just off the top of my head are definitely going to go ‘backwards’?

Then you have mature but plateaued guys in: Pearce, Cox, Ryan, JOM, Banfield, Hughes

Possible fall off a cliff: Fyfe, Walters

I don’t see as much doom and gloom as others. That’s said I don’t see us contending next year. Finals? Maybe, but it would be more around game style change as opposed to personnel.

Fyfe has already fallen off the cliff, if he can climb back up a bit we could improve. Noddy, Chappy, Brayshaw (50%) had bad years. Don’t except that to occur again.

We still won 10 games and lost quite a few close ones. It won’t take much to improve and make finals & I think the slow start to the season won’t happen again.

 

[Taylor]

I think the Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

we had in the second half of the year playing from round one has him clunking more marks (a lot of which were just outside the fifty) and it changes results.

Funnily enough, it would probably mean North Melbourne already have pick one and two in the draft.

 

[s_wd6]

Fyfe has already fallen off the cliff, if he can climb back up a bit we could improve. Noddy, Chappy, Brayshaw (50%) had bad years. Don’t except that to occur again.

We still won 10 games and lost quite a few close ones. It won’t take much to improve and make finals & I think the slow start to the season won’t happen again.

Every other team around us is improving their list. Look at Sydney- very similar to us except had a couple games they won bc of pure luck. They've bought in players to fill pretty much every hole on their list, and have spent almost nothing doing it.

Gold Coast have their academy picks, Tigers bringing in a KPF, Essendon loading up on FA etc.

 

[Taylor]

Richmond brought in two very expensive midfielders and went backwards.

 

[pK75]

I think the Luke Jackson we had in the second half of the year playing from round one has him clunking more marks (a lot of which were just outside the fifty) and it changes results.

Funnily enough, it would probably mean North Melbourne already have pick one and two in the draft.

Think we win the tigers and lions games if Darcy is in the ruck as well.
Win the north game if Walters starts on the ground instead of the bench. There are easily 3-4 games that could have been wins with the personnel we have, Young and Johnson in the middle are the most likely improvements next year for mine.

 

[s_wd6]

Think we win the tigers and lions games if Darcy is in the ruck as well.
Win the north game if Walters starts on the ground instead of the bench. There are easily 3-4 games that could have been wins with the personnel we have, Young and Johnson in the middle are to most likely improvements next year for mine.

Last year we were lucky that Walters had a bit of a resurgence. He's old. The cliff comes fast. We were drafting to replace him anyway, and now with schultz we have to replace to small forwards with 18 year olds.

 

[DragoDelph]

So we just ignore that a lot of the life expectancy of these "additions" to other clubs have a life expectancy of about 2x years?

And that we are at a completely different end of our build than those clubs?

By all means, bring in experience, but they have to be best 18, and mid 20's.

And yeah, JOM was a mistake, however can understand with the loss of Mundy and the uncertainty on Fyfe, why that may have looked like a good idea. Lets not make the same mistake again.

 

[freo1997]

Hoping just like his mate Cogs…Jaegar rejuvenates and has a big year.

Should be reinvented as a fwd.

 

[Cobbler]

Every other team around us is improving their list. Look at Sydney- very similar to us except had a couple games they won bc of pure luck. They've bought in players to fill pretty much every hole on their list, and have spent almost nothing doing it.

Gold Coast have their academy picks, Tigers bringing in a KPF, Essendon loading up on FA etc.

Taylor Adams? Injured and past his best
Grundy? Fair enough but cost a lot and Grundy is nowhere near the player he was.
Hamling? Mate, he’s done.
Jordan? Who the flip is that guy.

They’ve topped up with guys past their prime. They’d want to be certain they’re contending otherwise they’ve just wasted 4 spots and playing time for others.

Stop with the ‘EVERYONE is improving their lists’ BS.

Sometimes the best thing is to sit on what you have and develop.

Our trajectory is only upwards albeit a season or 2 later than many may have hoped.

I for one am glad we’re not in the ‘improving our list’ strategy of taking on other teams spuds. Been there, done that.

Your Conca, Colyer, JOM types can serve a purpose. This ain’t the year to paper cracks with spuds.

 

[pK75]

Last year we were lucky that Walters had a bit of a resurgence. He's old. The cliff comes fast. We were drafting to replace him anyway, and now with schultz we have to replace to small forwards with 18 year olds.

Emmett replaces one (Schultz) straight away, plus adds some size.
Need to find a Walters replacement, but have two more years to do so.

 

[Dockeroo]

Every other team around us is improving their list. Look at Sydney- very similar to us except had a couple games they won bc of pure luck. They've bought in players to fill pretty much every hole on their list, and have spent almost nothing doing it.

Sydney are a very different club to us. They are a win-now mode team over the past 20 years and target playing finals pretty much every year. Yes they get an academy from the AFL that we don’t have but that’s not the only difference. The expectation to win big games over there is much higher than freo, they would never spend 8 year rebuilding or talk about winning 4 or 5 years into the future. Not saying it’s right or wrong but that’s just how they operate.
Their strategy is to try replicate the Geelong approach. Stay in the top 8 at all costs. Play as many finals games as possible. Spend millions of dollars on marquee saviours via trade and FA.
In a city like Sydney where people only have a passing interest in footy, spending 6 or 7 years out of the finals in 13th or 12th place is a terminal threat to their existence. The AFL know it too.
Very different at freo where fans turn up no matter how bad we are.

Between now and 2035, Sydney will be expecting to play finals 9/12 years I would think. They will bring in JUH and pay a fortune and expect him to kick 500 goals for them over the next decade. They will probably succeed too.

 

[Purple Suit]

Every other team around us is improving their list. Look at Sydney- very similar to us except had a couple games they won bc of pure luck. They've bought in players to fill pretty much every hole on their list, and have spent almost nothing doing it.

Gold Coast have their academy picks, Tigers bringing in a KPF, Essendon loading up on FA etc.

We have no holes in our list except for experience. Even Shultz has a replacement in Emmet ready to go.

Adding cheap depth isn’t really going to do anything to the team unless we have a lot of injuries.

 

[s_wd6]

Taylor Adams? Injured and past his best
Grundy? Fair enough but cost a lot and Grundy is nowhere near the player he was.
Hamling? Mate, he’s done.
Jordan? Who the heck is that guy.

They’ve topped up with guys past their prime. They’d want to be certain they’re contending otherwise they’ve just wasted 4 spots and playing time for others.

Stop with the ‘EVERYONE is improving their lists’ BS.

Sometimes the best thing is to sit on what you have and develop.

Our trajectory is only upwards albeit a season or 2 later than many may have hoped.

I for one am glad we’re not in the ‘improving our list’ strategy of taking on other teams spuds. Been there, done that.

Your Conca, Colyer, JOM types can serve a purpose. This ain’t the year to paper cracks with spuds.

Point is other teams are looking to improve their list this offseason. We were never going to do that, but it was OK, because we were supposed to have minimal changes and keep our list stable.

Losing multiple b22 players means you need to start looking for ways to improve your list. Obviously with Schultz requesting so late, we didn't have time to properly lure any other small forwards over. Hence why it's better to keep him for a year and sus out other targets. We cannot come out of this offseason with no replacement for him.

 

[freo1997]

Emmet played 2 ****ing games.


It’s called adrenaline. We can’t count on that a whole season. He just isn’t proven yet.

 

[Taylor]

Last year we were lucky that Walters had a bit of a resurgence. He's old. The cliff comes fast. We were drafting to replace him anyway, and now with schultz we have to replace to small forwards with 18 year olds.

I think we can make up some impact with speed and agility what we will lose in experience and grit. Assuming we draft some speedy forwards and not more midfielders who are too short so they play forward.

 

[Cobbler]

Emmet played 2 ******* games.


It’s called adrenaline. We can’t count on that a whole season. He just isn’t proven yet.

I’m hoping that was his base and he comes from the clouds to be consistently at God level.

 

[Dockeroo]

I’m hoping that was his base and he comes from the clouds to be consistently at God level.

If he played 23 games like that he’d be an AA borderline.
I don’t think it’s realistic. Especially when a lot of his WAFL performers were underwhelming.
However I do love that player trait where a guy looks much better at a higher level with better players around him. Maybe he’s one of them. Looks shit at WAFL but class in AFL.
Like all small forwards if the teams is getting beaten around the ball he will look crap

 

[freo1997]

I’m hoping that was his base and he comes from the clouds to be consistently at God level.

Same was said about Nyhuis, Van Berlo once had a huge game fwd, Ruffles (injuries got him mind you) for those older fans Michael Brown once had a Carey like game.

Just can’t back someone in to replicate something he couldn’t consistently do at WAFL.

 

[Purple Suit]

Emmet played 2 ******* games.


It’s called adrenaline. We can’t count on that a whole season. He just isn’t proven yet.

We can also play with 1 less small forward. People complain that 4 is too many, if Emmet doesn’t work out then we have three & Sturt plays every week or even dare I say, Fyfe fwd.

We have options with our forward setup to improve it even if we lose a gun in Shultz. What we really need is to replace Walters X factor up forward in the next year or two. We need to get someone who loves a goal and is creative.

 

[Cobbler]

Point is other teams are looking to improve their list this offseason. We were never going to do that, but it was OK, because we were supposed to have minimal changes and keep our list stable.

Losing multiple b22 players means you need to start looking for ways to improve your list. Obviously with Schultz requesting so late, we didn't have time to properly lure any other small forwards over. Hence why it's better to keep him for a year and sus out other targets. We cannot come out of this offseason with no replacement for him.

We added a unicorn only last year.
We’ve added quality youth over the past few drafts.
Reports are we’re loading up for something next year.

What we can’t do is panic, which is what we did when offering Brockman 4 years. He will do stuff all.

We have an excellent young core.

 

[Footskill]

Emmet played 2 ******* games.


It’s called adrenaline. We can’t count on that a whole season. He just isn’t proven yet.

This. I think we all want Emmett to come on , especially if Schultz does leave. However, just based on two games there is no guarantee. As he is very reliant on intensity if it drops of a few % or his skill level mirrors what he was showing at peel we could have issues

 

[DragoDelph]

We added a unicorn only last year.
We’ve added quality youth over the past few drafts.
Reports are we’re loading up for something next year.

What we can’t do is panic, which is what we did when offering Brockman 4 years. He will do stuff all.

We have an excellent young core.

I don’t think we “panicked” with brockman at all. Simply looked at moving the Schultz contract/dollars over to him.

 

[freo1997]

How do you think he’s gets better?

more game time

There is a reason he broke into the team so late in the season..

I had a 6 year break from footy once and my first game back I looked like wafl level in the local league. Next game I looked like E grade material. That adrenaline can sometimes be a significant difference.

 

[mattis117]

Every other team around us is improving their list. Look at Sydney- very similar to us except had a couple games they won bc of pure luck. They've bought in players to fill pretty much every hole on their list, and have spent almost nothing doing it.

Gold Coast have their academy picks, Tigers bringing in a KPF, Essendon loading up on FA etc.

This comes across as a silly thing to say - all clubs are always trying to improve their lists. Your post disproportionally focuses on what those clubs have added, rather than what they've lost.

The Tigers for example have lost more 'premiership stars'. What you're not accounting for is the natural aging of a list. It finally hit Geelong this season and it will continue to hurt teams like Collingwood, Geelong, West Coast, and Richmond who all have fairly senior lists.

Last year Richmond supposedly reloaded for another charge with Tarranto and Hopper. Individually they worked out ok, but it didn't stop the decline in their list overall.

Trades aside, as mentioned, the only age related decline we will have is from players whos output is already much lower than their best was years ago. As a young list, we have the most to gain bar maybe Sydney and Gold Coast from the maturing of our list.