List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[trentjac]

*in oath you lot are a sour bunch. Everyone would’ve been over the moon with this extension if they announced it after a win. 3 year extension for a 24 year old who averaged 30 touches a game last season is perfectly adequate.

He has also probably signed on fair coin as we gave him a best 22 spot when GC wouldn't

 

[go_the_dockers]

Motlop is a smart player. Would love him in our team

 

[kp junior]

One class small forward on the list other than Walters would be nice


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[Lach72]

we seriously need to invest in forwards…pick ****ing 6 of them this draft

 

[wakojako]

we seriously need to invest in forwards…pick ******* 6 of them this draft

 

[Lach72]

View attachment 1637573

 

[Purple Suit]

Just play Amiss instead, he’s too good for WAFL and will get us goals out of nothing because he’s a natural forward instead of a project.

 

[Dockeroo]

Motlop is a smart player. Would love him in our team

I’m not exaggerating or being smart here.
Motlop would not have made his debut yet for freo if we had drafted him in 2021.
I’m 100% convinced of that.
None of us would have a clue right now what he’s like at AFL level.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I’m not exaggerating or being smart here.
Motlop would not have made his debut yet for freo if we had drafted him in 2021.
I’m 100% convinced of that.
None of us would have a clue right now what he’s like at AFL level.

Interesting call. Could be right.

 

[Docker82]

We've got more forwards in terms of numbers than we do midfielders and defenders tbh. If we draft just forwards this year we'll have a bunch of them at WAFL Reserves level and will create major holes elsewhere.

The strategy seems to have been best available at all costs early with absolutely no thought about list needs. Ultimately we've drafted two forwards with a top 30 picks since 2014. They're both not playing this week.

We need less forwards on our list not more imo. I'm not saying not draft them but we've got to cut some of the ones we have. In terms of drafting new forwards one or two players of real quality would solve a lot of issues imo.

Our current forwards aren't terrible footballers. Plenty of premiership forwards don't average much more than a goal a game. I like what Schultz, Switta and Frederick offer us tbh. We're lacking system and A Grade talent up forward which all premiership teams have.

 

[Taylor]

When that A grade talent in present in the tallest players in the forward line it tends to work better.

 

[Dockeroo]

We've got more forwards in terms of numbers than we do midfielders and defenders tbh. If we draft just forwards this year we'll have a bunch of them at WAFL Reserves level and will create major holes elsewhere.

The strategy seems to have been best available at all costs early with absolutely no thought about list needs. Ultimately we've drafted two forwards with a top 30 picks since 2014. They're both not playing this week.

We need less forwards on our list not more imo. I'm not saying not draft them but we've got to cut some of the ones we have. In terms of drafting new forwards one or two players of real quality would solve a lot of issues imo.

Our current forwards aren't terrible footballers. Plenty of premiership forwards don't average much more than a goal a game. I like what Schultz, Switta and Frederick offer us tbh. We're lacking system and A Grade talent up forward which all premiership teams have.

What you are politely saying is that we have a whole heap of deadwood on the list in the forward positions.
Delist them then if that is the case.

It’s like the sunk cost fallacy.
I’d you can’t get a game ahead of Banfield after 4 or 5 years, it’s time to move on to the next option.
We haven’t got time to wait 6 or 7 years for medium forwards to get good enough to play a game at AFL level.

 

[Taylor]

Small forwards are almost all failed midfielders. The traits we are looking for in a small forward are speed, agility, clean hands, wonderful kick.

All of those make for a nice midfielder.

So when it comes to forwards that aren't tall, the taller they are the more you're looking for application, exposure or personality issues.

Either they barely played the game prior to ending up at AFL, they were injured most of their junior career, they didn't have the dedication to be in shape. Rare circumstances has them playing forward in their junior career but almost every coach will play their best talent in the middle.

...Or you're just going to pick a midfielder who ends up medium forward.

Undersized key forwards and failed midfielders. They are your medium forwards.

Midfielders who were too small for AFL midfields are where you find your small forwards.

Look for the fat kids with great kicks and agility. That's your high risk, high reward.

 

[Boomer93]

Small forwards are almost all failed midfielders. The traits we are looking for in a small forward are speed, agility, clean hands, wonderful kick.

All of those make for a nice midfielder.

So when it comes to forwards that aren't tall, the taller they are the more you're looking for application, exposure or personality issues.

Either they barely played the game prior to ending up at AFL, they were injured most of their junior career, they didn't have the dedication to be in shape. Rare circumstances has them playing forward in their junior career but almost every coach will play their best talent in the middle.

...Or you're just going to pick a midfielder who ends up medium forward.

Undersized key forwards and failed midfielders. They are your medium forwards.

Midfielders who were too small for AFL midfields are where you find your small forwards.

Look for the fat kids with great kicks and agility. That's your high risk, high reward.

Small forward is a specialised position, plenty of players grow up specifically as a small forward.

Also some of the midfielders who have become small forwards is because they provide more forward then they do as a midfielder, not because they have failed as a midfielder.

The traits guys like Eddie betts, Milne, Walters have that make them good forwards, that reading of the game and goal sense isn't something that can just be picked up by any failed afl midfielder.

If you want an average run of the mill pressure forward sure, but we are after more then that amd should draft as such.

 

[Taylor]

Small forward is a specialised position, plenty of players grow up specifically as a small forward.

Also some of the midfielders who have become small forwards is because they provide more forward then they do as a midfielder, not because they have failed as a midfielder.

The traits guys like Eddie betts, Milne, Walters have that make them good forwards, that reading of the game and goal sense isn't something that can just be picked up by any failed afl midfielder.

If you want an average run of the mill pressure forward sure, but we are after more then that amd should draft as such.

We actually agree, but I put it to you that the qualities that made the likes of Michael Walters great small forwards are the same ones that made him All Australian when he went to the midfield.

The primary reason he wasn't considered for the midfield was his lack of fitness and smaller size.

The argument I'm making isn't that you should pick a non tall forward by just choosing a mid, it's that you're going to have to be creative to find them with talent when so many of them will be playing midfield in U18s and then their move to AFL leads to them being too small or too unfit to run mid minutes. See Ian Hill, Zac Fisher.

The names you mentioned didn't have the tank to run midfield, hence they spent more time forward.

 

[Docker82]

What you are politely saying is that we have a whole heap of deadwood on the list in the forward positions.
Delist them then if that is the case.

It’s like the sunk cost fallacy.
I’d you can’t get a game ahead of Banfield after 4 or 5 years, it’s time to move on to the next option.
We haven’t got time to wait 6 or 7 years for medium forwards to get good enough to play a game at AFL level.

Tall forwards are far more the problem than small/medium forwards.

Whilst Darcy and Jackson are on the list, I want us to play two talls and four medium/smalls tbh. I think Jackson can make an impact forward as early as this season but we can’t rely on him for much more than a goal a game - that’s all most good forward/rucks get you.

Our small/medium forwards are: Schultz, Switta, Frederick, Walters, Banfield, Emmett, Sturt and Colyer.

Eight players to fill four spots in the best 22. It’s not too bad. We’ll see Colyer move on this year and be able to replace him hopefully with someone that can challenge the rest of these guys for spots reasonably quickly.

I’m satisfied enough at what the first four offer when they play if I’m honest. We need to actually see what Emmett and Sturt can offer because we need to know whether they can actually replace Walters long term or not.

Our tall/undersized tall forwards are: Taberner, Fyfe, Amiss, Treacy, Kuek, Corbett and Benning.

Seven players to take two spots in the best 22. That’s not depth - it’s overkill. I could probably add Draper to the above too but he’s being developed as a defender atm.

It’s too many and only two of them were drafted in the top 50 of the AFL Draft. They’re not all lost causes but recruiting more and more and just hoping one comes good is a flawed strategy. Use a decent draft pick like we did with Amiss. Even a top 30 selection which we’ll have will be nice.

Overall lack of A Grade talent will hold us back. We’ve found decent small/medium forwards in the state leagues which is done reasonably regularly across the AFL. What we haven’t had the balls to do more than once is use a good draft selection on a KPF. Feel like Amiss was actually a best available selection anyway tbh.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

Shortmuir was one of those bottom 6 players who turned up each week and did enough to get another game the week after. Kicked a few goals, had a decent celebration, did okay in what was a mid-table team at the time.

was a Bailey Fritsch type, but not quite at that level
also played in a much worse team.
Would be similar to Sturt 4 us , now IMO

 

[sdfc]

We actually agree, but I put it to you that the qualities that made the likes of Michael Walters great small forwards are the same ones that made him All Australian when he went to the midfield.

The primary reason he wasn't considered for the midfield was his lack of fitness and smaller size.

The argument I'm making isn't that you should pick a non tall forward by just choosing a mid, it's that you're going to have to be creative to find them with talent when so many of them will be playing midfield in U18s and then their move to AFL leads to them being too small or too unfit to run mid minutes. See Ian Hill, Zac Fisher.

The names you mentioned didn't have the tank to run midfield, hence they spent more time forward.

Michael Walters is a natural goalkicker as the best small forwards are. You can't just make any midfielder a small forward.

 

[Taylor]

Michael Walters is a natural goalkicker as the best small forwards are. You can't just make any midfielder a small forward.

I agree, I believe you will have an elite midfielder out of an elite small forward if their hurdle is climbed though which is why there are a lot of "role player" small forwards

 

[sdfc]

I agree, I believe you will have an elite midfielder out of an elite small forward if their hurdle is climbed though which is why there are a lot of "role player" small forwards

There are also a lot of role player midfielders. I'm not sure what your point is. Just because a player is a gun midfielder doesn't mean they'd be a gun small forward.

 

[Taylor]

There are also a lot of role player midfielders. I'm not sure what your point is. Just because a player is a gun midfielder doesn't mean they'd be a gun small forward.

My point is that if we want an elite small forward we should look at the fat kids with elite foot skills and agility as I said earlier.

They are the high risk, high reward but also cheap enough to secure with our later picks because we won't have high ones.

 

[sdfc]

My point is that if we want an elite small forward we should look at the fat kids with elite foot skills and agility as I said earlier.

They are the high risk, high reward but also cheap enough to secure with our later picks because we won't have high ones.

Someone with some nous around goal would be better than picking some fat kid because he's a nice kick.

 

[Taylor]

Someone with some nous around goal would be better than picking some fat kid because he's a nice kick.

My experience is that the players we are speaking of at U18s are the same individual

 

[Scham]

Someone with some nous around goal would be better than picking some fat kid because he's a nice kick.

Yep. Been saying it for years, a natural forward with skill, smarts and speed. The 3 S's.

 

[sdfc]

My experience is that the players we are speaking of at U18s are the same individual

In C grade maybe. Those fat guys showing something at WAFL colts level are few and far between. If they're that far out of condition it's an attitude problem.