List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Coona Blues]

Gresham is essentially an upgraded version of Fisher, playing a position that we're desperately needing to bolster.
The only reason I wouldn't consider it is due to cost.

If we could clear the decks a little, Gresham would be a realistic target. Saints could not expect band 1 compo price tags.Would they release him without a fight for a second round return (or worse)? Not sure SOS would want to do us any favours.

Genuine mid/forward with decent dash and a touch of class. Certainly has greater forward credentials than Fisher and should complement our list 70% forward 30% mid.

 

[BM123]

If we could clear the decks a little, Gresham would be a realistic target. Saints could not expect band 1 compo price tags.Would they release him without a fight for a second round return (or worse)? Not sure SOS would want to do us any favours.

Genuine mid/forward with decent dash and a touch of class. Certainly has greater forward credentials than Fisher and should complement our list 70% forward 30% mid.

Feel like we would want someone who provides more scoreboard pressure than Gresham though ?

Maybe I'm underrating Gresham though.

 

[Jeremias]

Feel like we would want someone who provides more scoreboard pressure than Gresham though ?

Maybe I'm underrating Gresham though.

He's been down this year but did have 55 and 60 scoring shots in his two full seasons (2017 and 2018).

Whether his body is right is of far greater concern to me than his scoreboard impact.

 

[BlueJet]

Feel like we would want someone who provides more scoreboard pressure than Gresham though ?

Maybe I'm underrating Gresham though.

He averages a goal a game over his career splitting time forward & mid, whilst there's remove for improvement, it isn't bad either.
He's someone both capable of hurting opponents that sag off to cover H or Charlie & pushing into the midfield to give us a different look.

 

[SurreyBlue]

God help us.

 

[TENACIOUS]

If we could clear the decks a little, Gresham would be a realistic target. Saints could not expect band 1 compo price tags. Would they release him without a fight for a second round return (or worse)? Not sure SOS would want to do us any favours.

Genuine mid/forward with decent dash and a touch of class. Certainly has greater forward credentials than Fisher and should complement our list 70% forward 30% mid.

Cal Twomey said he's on $800k a year atm...

We'd be insane to offer anywhere near that, for what he produces...

GETTABLE: 'No-brainer' trade, clubs eye rising gun, Harley's idols

Cal Twomey and Riley Beveridge are joined by No.1 draft pick fancy Harley Reid to discuss the hype, the fend-offs, and much more

www.afl.com.au

 

[BlueTang]

Honestly with just how much time those two spend licking windows I'm surprised we hear from them at all.

I was on the same Perth flight as Hutch on Tuesday, he’s huge these days. Enjoying a few to many corporate lunches it seems, reckon he’d be around 125kg

 

[Gointocarlton]

If we could clear the decks a little, Gresham would be a realistic target. Saints could not expect band 1 compo price tags.Would they release him without a fight for a second round return (or worse)? Not sure SOS would want to do us any favours.

Genuine mid/forward with decent dash and a touch of class. Certainly has greater forward credentials than Fisher and should complement our list 70% forward 30% mid.

Maybe given how SOS is getting the band (ie the ones he picked at Carlton - Stocker) back together at StK, trade Dow for Gresham and call it square. Surely SOS must rate Dow highly.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Gresham is a handy player but I’m not sure we’re in a position to be taking a punt on another injury prone player.

Focus from now on should be players with some or ideally all of: neat foot skills, speed, defensive work rate and tackling ability, high footy IQ, and durability.

 

[Wickzki]

I don't know where to ask this question but as it's list related I'll put it here.

Since Harry had his first outstanding year of football how many games have he and Charlie played together with Charlie being healthy?

It can't be that many. Probably less than 30.

We got off to a fantastic start last year with a new coach, etc. and we've had solid to good starts to years in the past. Then McKay got hurt. Then the season began to unravel in the backend of last year.
.
This past summer and preseason the big push for Harry was to develop his game around the ground so as to impact more of the game beyond the scoreboard.

As he's done this Harry has developed that aspect of his game but at the same time has lost confidence in the forward half, appears lost sometimes in his positioning and his kicking for goal has suffered badly for it.

We also need to acknowledge the weaknesses in the current best 22 - almost a key skills shortage in disposal efficiency and that all important play from half forward.

Therefore, I genuinely wonder if a part of what is happening to Harry is growing pains in his on field relationship with Charlie now that the Voss honeymoon period is over.

If it does then it gives me some confidence that he'll adapt post-bye and the mental game will improve significantly giving us much improved outcomes.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

What about having another quiet. Word to Tom paperly?
Spewing we couldn’t get that deal done a few years back!

 

[Gointocarlton]

What about having another quiet. Word to Tom paperly?
Spewing we couldn’t get that deal done a few years back!

I suspect we couldn't afford the $$$$ given our salary cap.

 

[Coona Blues]

I don't know where to ask this question but as it's list related I'll put it here.

Since Harry had his first outstanding year of football how many games have he and Charlie played together with Charlie being healthy?

It can't be that many. Probably less than 30.

We got off to a fantastic start last year with a new coach, etc. and we've had solid to good starts to years in the past. Then McKay got hurt. Then the season began to unravel in the backend of last year.
.
This past summer and preseason the big push for Harry was to develop his game around the ground so as to impact more of the game beyond the scoreboard.

As he's done this Harry has developed that aspect of his game but at the same time has lost confidence in the forward jslf, appears lost sometimes in his positioning and his kicking for goal has suffered badly for it.

We also need to acknowledge the weaknesses in the current best 22 - almost a key skills shortage in disposal efficiency and that all important play from half forward.

Therefore, I genuinely wonder if a part of what is happening to Harry is growing pains in his on field relationship with Charlie now that the Voss honeymoon period is over.

If it does then it gives me some confidence that he'll adapt post-bye and the mental game will improve significantly giving us much improved outcomes.

Despite appearing a bit flakey on the surface, I am almost certain Harry is a very driven individual. For a mature player to do the sprint work he has done over the off season speaks volumes.

I watch form lapses of Crippa with less than 100% visible effort to turn them around with a much more sinister view than I do Harry’s yips. I hate the McGovern 3/4 pace self preservation approach, the Fisher selective effort and the multiple players who choose who and when to pass to rather than taking the first reasonable option and embracing all of their team mates.

FWIW, I am trying to view TDK similar to Harry, but unfortunately the effort doesn’t seem to be there.

Harry is working his butt off up the ground and is one of our better contributors this year. All credit to him for that. He and our coaches need to resist the temptation to modify his role to avoid the pressures currently associated with goalkicking. The bloke needs the coaches and his mates to seriously back him in.

While the Magpies would be a difficult team to do it against, I would dead set clear out the forward line. Send Charlie, JSOS and most of the smalls up the ground for a game or two. Harry, you da man. I would have Durdin, the quickest of our small forwards, the closest to his vicinity to present at the fall of the ball as the ball moves forward, but keep the rest out and drag defenders up the ground. It would be interesting as to who Collingwoood would leave with him. Moore may move up the ground with Charlie isolating a slower player who Harry would burn. Charlie is more than capable of long range scoring, so I doubt it would dull his effectiveness.

For the record, I would love H to have a couple of sessions with the enigmatic Fev (on and off the field) he needs to either alleviate or embrace perceived pressure, not be consumed by it. Fev embodies that function. I am not a Fevola apologist, he is/was a dick head, but he has the traits that would benefit Harry now, loves the club and would only be too pleased to give if his time (for a variety of reasons).

During the formative years I remember plenty of examples of Harry using virtually every kick in the book for some phenomenal goals (could say the same for TDK, whose goalkicking is worse than Harry’s, preventing him being the quality forward the myths suggesting he is).

I am also thinking as a circuit breaker, the team as a unit could benefit from a week without footballs at training. They all have the skills, the skills don’t disappear over night. Stop the working and pressuring, possibly pushing them further down an abyss. Rock up game day hungry, and just play footy.

 

[thylacine60]

I was on the same Perth flight as Hutch on Tuesday, he’s huge these days. Enjoying a few to many corporate lunches it seems, reckon he’d be around 125kg

the many ways we demean people in an effort to gain support from others......

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

If we could clear the decks a little, Gresham would be a realistic target. Saints could not expect band 1 compo price tags.Would they release him without a fight for a second round return (or worse)? Not sure SOS would want to do us any favours.

Genuine mid/forward with decent dash and a touch of class. Certainly has greater forward credentials than Fisher and should complement our list 70% forward 30% mid.

The fact SOS is the list manager at St Kilda, we can bank on them playing hard ball with us.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Despite appearing a bit flakey on the surface, I am almost certain Harry is a very driven individual. For a mature player to do the sprint work he has done over the off season speaks volumes.

I watch form lapses of Crippa with less than 100% visible effort to turn them around with a much more sinister view than I do Harry’s yips. I hate the McGovern 3/4 pace self preservation approach, the Fisher selective effort and the multiple players who choose who and when to pass to rather than taking the first reasonable option and embracing all of their team mates.

FWIW, I am trying to view TDK similar to Harry, but unfortunately the effort doesn’t seem to be there.

Harry is working his butt off up the ground and is one of our better contributors this year. All credit to him for that. He and our coaches need to resist the temptation to modify his role to avoid the pressures currently associated with goalkicking. The bloke needs the coaches and his mates to seriously back him in.

While the Magpies would be a difficult team to do it against, I would dead set clear out the forward line. Send Charlie, JSOS and most of the smalls up the ground for a game or two. Harry, you da man. I would have Durdin, the quickest of our small forwards, the closest to his vicinity to present at the fall of the ball as the ball moves forward, but keep the rest out and drag defenders up the ground. It would be interesting as to who Collingwoood would leave with him. Moore may move up the ground with Charlie isolating a slower player who Harry would burn. Charlie is more than capable of long range scoring, so I doubt it would dull his effectiveness.

For the record, I would love H to have a couple of sessions with the enigmatic Fev (on and off the field) he needs to either alleviate or embrace perceived pressure, not be consumed by it. Fev embodies that function. I am not a Fevola apologist, he is/was a dick head, but he has the traits that would benefit Harry now, loves the club and would only be too pleased to give if his time (for a variety of reasons).

During the formative years I remember plenty of examples of Harry using virtually every kick in the book for some phenomenal goals (could say the same for TDK, whose goalkicking is worse than Harry’s, preventing him being the quality forward the myths suggesting he is).

I am also thinking as a circuit breaker, the team as a unit could benefit from a week without footballs at training. They all have the skills, the skills don’t disappear over night. Stop the working and pressuring, possibly pushing them further down an abyss. Rock up game day hungry, and just play footy.

Great post, H is doing a lot right however the one aspect of his game that is most critical to his position is failing. The Fev option has a lot of merit, however I think H needs to get an understanding of which kick he wants to take from each position of the ground and once this is established set it in stone as a rule and practice all of them around the key style over and over again. Perhaps Harry, Crippa & JSOS can each put in $1000 each training session and bet on who kicks the most goals, the pressure of winning cash off your mates would equate to something similar to being on the MCG in front of 80000..

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Nick Watson much like Hollands>LoB this year would be a more impactful pick up than Gresham. Perhaps they'd break even in his first year or maybe Gresham would be slightly ahead, but within 2-3 years Watson will be a better player and cost us far less in cap space.

 

[FRUMPY]

I was on the same Perth flight as Hutch on Tuesday, he’s huge these days. Enjoying a few to many corporate lunches it seems, reckon he’d be around 125kg

On a side note - i listened to the 'howie games' interview with Hutchie - he comes across as a very different and likeable person in that inteview....

 

[branedotorg]

I was on the same Perth flight as Hutch on Tuesday, he’s huge these days. Enjoying a few to many corporate lunches it seems, reckon he’d be around 125kg

he's a living embodiment of a george grosz picture

 

[DangerousD]

Highly doubtful. We wouldn't have given Harry 7 years, Charlie 6 and Cripps 6 at those amounts. Those 3 would all have taken a bit less money to get the extra years security.

Reports at the time had Cripps taking a paycut and signing for about 700k x 6. Keeping in mind Cripps had come off two very poor years when signing that deal. Nobody would have paid him 900k at that point.

Cerra is on about 650k x 4. That was widely reported. Saad 650k x 5. Again widely reported.

Walsh, McGovern, Williams, Weitering amounts probably about right.

If I had to guess I would think it's something more like.

Curnow 850k
McKay 800k
Walsh 800k
McGovern 800k (finishing this year)
Williams 750k
Weitering 750k
Cripps 700k
Saad 650k
Cerra 650k

Considering we are maxed out cap wise I’d say a few of those are understated.
There were articles last year saying the reports of Cripps signing for that amount was BS.

I’d be more inclined to believe Harry, Charlie and Cripps wouod all be very close to $900,000.

If you take your figures as correct, I don’t see how we would be under so much cap pressure.

 

[Jeremias]

Considering we are maxed out cap wise I’d say a few of those are understated.
There were articles last year saying the reports of Cripps signing for that amount was BS.

I’d be more inclined to believe Harry, Charlie and Cripps wouod all be very close to $900,000.

If you take your figures as correct, I don’t see how we would be under so much cap pressure.

Out of interest, where has this been stated?

 

[DangerousD]

It concerns me that Jade Gresham is a free agent and Cal Twomey has started talking him up as “star” we should target. He once looked like he could’ve been something but it didn’t play out that way. He is a terrible target for us.

We do not need any more wasteful users. I wish I could trust us not to consider it.

I’d love for us to push hard for Gresham and think he would be fantastic for us as long as he keeps up his current output.

Everyone here should be aware outside a Harry and Charlie we struggle to score goals, outside these two we only have one player averaging more than a goal per game and that’s Owies.

Gresham averages 18 possessions and just over a goal per game, we don’t have a mid or forward who gets close to this.

 

[DangerousD]

Out of interest, where has this been stated?

Where has our salary cap issues been stated? I’m not sure if serious.

Its been constantly stated in the newspapers, on the radio and on all the footy shows for over a year.

But for those who think it’s all a lie and a conspiracy our own CEO just last week stated we have salary cap issues and we will be focusing on the draft.

This goes in hand with his comments last year when he said we have a tight cap.

I’m not sure other than the CEO saying himself that we have issues what people want before the believe it

 

[Jeremias]

Where has our salary cap issues been stated? I’m not sure if serious.

Its been constantly stated in the newspapers, on the radio and on all the footy shows for over a year.

But for those who think it’s all a lie and a conspiracy our own CEO just last week stated we have salary cap issues and we will be focusing on the draft.

This goes in hand with his comments last year when he said we have a tight cap.

I’m not sure other than the CEO saying himself that we have issues what people want before the believe it

Yeah...I'm serious.

Not interested in what journalists have to say. They scream that they want player salaries to be made public and in the meantime they are known to constantly overstate player salaries...and yet we're supposed to believe they have intricate knowledge of club salary caps?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Where did our CEO say we have issues? I must have missed it.

 

[DangerousD]

Yeah...I'm serious.

Not interested in what journalists have to say. They scream that they want player salaries to be made public and in the meantime they are known to constantly overstate player salaries...and yet we're supposed to believe they have intricate knowledge of club salary caps?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Where did our CEO say we have issues? I must have missed it.

A few weeks ago

Brian Cook on Carlton's list management 'issue' and the push to play more at the MCG

Carlton CEO Brian Cook admits the Blues have an “issue” with list management that needs to be addressed. He also addressed Tom De Koning’s future on 3AW Football before Carlton’s clash with Brisbane on Friday night. Press PLAY below to hear Cook on Carlton’s list Cook also told 3AW Football the...

www.3aw.com.au

From last year

Carlton CEO Brian Cook concedes current salary cap squeeze is "challenging but doable" - Tuesday June 28

Carlton CEO Brian Cook spoke about the club's salary cap position, with Tom De Koning, Harry McKay and Charlie Curnow all out of contract at the end of 2023.

player.whooshkaa.com