List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[DangerousD]

Reid is the type of player that will make others look and play better around him, this could be worth more to us than picking multiple players.
Imo both options have merit, if we do find ourselves in this position it will be interesting to see which way we go.

It’s the same every year tough, this guys the guy, he’s a star, you can build the midfield, the defence, the forward line around him and then a year goes by, the gloss is gone and you realise there are several others just as good, if not better.

That’s not a big deal if you only have pick 1, but imagine you had pick 3 and 13 and you missed Oliver and Charlie to get Weiteriing.

 

[Blue since 72]

Question, if TDK leaves do we think Young could take over as a permanent ruck, we seem to be playing better without him in the back line?

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

It’s the same every year tough, this guys the guy, he’s a star, you can build the midfield, the defence, the forward line around him and then a year goes by, the gloss is gone and you realise there are several others just as good, if not better.

That’s not a big deal if you only have pick 1, but imagine you had pick 3 and 13 and you missed Oliver and Charlie to get Weiteriing.

I can see your angle the Bulldogs got Dunkley with one of the picks we traded for Charlie but they also got a player that didn't make it.
Imo we need a Degoey, Martin type Reid is the one this year, with the list we have assembled think this type of player is the missing piece that would push us into the top 4.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Watching an average ruck like Meek on Saturday has me further convinced that bringing in another below average ruck to replace TDK is a disaster.. Clubs that do not have a top line ruck are being exposed when they come up against the better rucks in the comp..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Question, if TDK leaves do we think Young could take over as a permanent ruck, we seem to be playing better without him in the back line?

No... If we want to go down this route maybe we bring in O'keefe who is clearly not quite ready but getting some games into him might fast track his development. Young will never be a permanent ruck option.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Reid is the type of player that will make others look and play better around him, this could be worth more to us than picking multiple players.
Imo both options have merit, if we do find ourselves in this position it will be interesting to see which way we go.

Would you rather have Sam Walsh or Connor Rozee & Bailey Smith.. Walsh is clearly the best player of the 3.. But Having Rozee & Smith would be game changing.

 

[branedotorg]

Watching an average ruck like Meek on Saturday has me further convinced that bringing in another below average ruck to replace TDK is a disaster.. Clubs that do not have a top line ruck are being exposed when they come up against the better rucks in the comp..

an average ruck to top shelf mids > good ruck to poor mids though

hawks had poor rucks to poor mids yesterday

 

[Jeremias]

Watching an average ruck like Meek on Saturday has me further convinced that bringing in another below average ruck to replace TDK is a disaster.. Clubs that do not have a top line ruck are being exposed when they come up against the better rucks in the comp..

How many top line rucks have won flags in recent years?

Yesterday we had no recognised ruck up against 2 recognised rucks and won the game. This is a really, really strange conclusion to reach on the back of that performance.

 

[CJMB]

Watching an average ruck like Meek on Saturday has me further convinced that bringing in another below average ruck to replace TDK is a disaster.. Clubs that do not have a top line ruck are being exposed when they come up against the better rucks in the comp..

It's funny though. Briggs wasn't thought too highly of a couple of months back. Cameron was barely known before he moved to Collingwood. Nankervis hadn't done much at Sydney either. Don't think they'd have cost much to acquire at the time. On the flipside you've got Jackson & Grundy, two established players, coming across on sizable contracts.

Who is considered a top line ruck at the moment and how many are there in the comp?

O'Brien, McInnerney, Pittonet/De Koning, Cameron/Cox, Darcy/Jackson, Draper/Phillps, Witts, Stanley, Briggs, Reeves/Meek, Gawn/Grundy, Goldstein/Xerri, Lycett, Nankervis, Marshall, Hickey, English, Naitanui

That's 25 names, 11 standout solo rucks and 7 notable pairs. They're not all great and some of the good ones are in bottom-10 teams. I'd argue the only real top-line rucks in the top 8, based on current/recent form, are English and Marshall, and there's daylight between the two.

I just want a competitor, mobile enough to get around the ground and can take a mark but also big enough to provide a physical presence at stoppage/CB, who is fit enough to play big minutes and largely durable so we can get some consistency & continuity going (& not rely on other players having to step up & ruck).

Also we lost the hitouts yesterday 61-27. It's just that our mids really outperformed theirs, despite their two rucks getting hands to the ball about 2-1/4 times more than Young & Silvagni.

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Question, if TDK leaves do we think Young could take over as a permanent ruck, we seem to be playing better without him in the back line?

Watching Young on the weekend thought he toiled well but his non raising of arms at some boundary throw ins gave me the impression of a fish out of water.

 

[CJMB]

Watching Young on the weekend thought he toiled well but his non raising of arms at some boundary throw ins gave me the impression of a fish out of water.

yeah that was frustrating, he'd give up on the contest to appeal while the play continued without him

 

[thylacine60]

How many top line rucks have won flags in recent years?

Yesterday we had no recognised ruck up against 2 recognised rucks and won the game. This is a really, really strange conclusion to reach on the back of that performance.

grigg won a flag as a ruck - he's 4'11'...........

 

[Blue since 72]

No... If we want to go down this route maybe we bring in O'keefe who is clearly not quite ready but getting some games into him might fast track his development. Young will never be a permanent ruck option.

Watching Young on the weekend thought he toiled well but his non raising of arms at some boundary throw ins gave me the impression of a fish out of water.

Cheers both.

 

[Prem17]

I don’t understand the logic behind trading 3 quality kids for one quality kid.

Even in your own opinion how many times since the year 2000 has pick 1 been the best player?

5, 6 and 7 gives a lot better chance of not only finding the best player but 3 quality players.

Who said anything about trading 3 picks for 1?
I said trade up but no one would trade 3 top 10 picks for pick 1.

 

[Prem17]

Yeah, it seems our Lachie/Lochie quota will go down at end of year... LC, yes; LF possible; LOB and LP most likely gone...

So, you're saying the Lachs are not locks?

 

[Sector 7G]

Watching an average ruck like Meek on Saturday has me further convinced that bringing in another below average ruck to replace TDK is a disaster.. Clubs that do not have a top line ruck are being exposed when they come up against the better rucks in the comp..

Shame Mirkov was unavailable. Would have liked to see Mirkov v Reeves yesterday. Would have been a good chance to see if he could have outperformed them.

 

[branedotorg]

Shame Mirkov was unavailable. Would have liked to see Mirkov v Reeves yesterday. Would have been a good chance to see if he could have outperformed them.

saw him outside PP after the game, assume it was for rehab or treatment. i know it's trite but he is really, really tall.

 

[Faz 2000]

I am definitely of the view that a dominant ruck is nice to have, not essential.

What I think a team needs is a ruckman (or combo) that has some differentiator that can be used to advantage.

For instance, Witts can essentially ruck all day as #1 - meaning you don't need to carry a second ruck.
English's elite ability is combination of mobility and skills to get 20+ touches regularly and use the ball well. AND he takes a good mark. (Which is probably why he's seen as the next "best in the game".

A differentiator can also be that your ruck division costs nothing in draft capital and salary cap. Eg. Both Grand Final teams last year have arguably the weakest ruck divisions in the league, but are stacked elsewhere. For rucks, great is nice, but good enough is good enough! To me, Young isn't good enough for anything other than a few week's cover, as he has no positive differentiator as a ruck. He loses the hitouts, gets out-marked around the ground, doesn't bring physicality, is no chance to get forward and kick goals.

There's also a lengthy history of good (or good enough) ruckmen being obtained for peanuts: Cox, Sandi, Mummy, Nank, DCameron, etc, etc. Our journeyman tractor rick is Pittonet, who we got for nothing. He's our #1 right now, but probably should be the depth guy.

So my conclusion is if someone offers something great for a ruckman (eg. possible TDK scenarios), you sell. And you do NOT go and pay massive to obtain a ruck.

 

[Crippa#9]

Mail getting stronger on TDK is as good as done to Geelong.

 

[Arr0w]

Reid is a gun, but I wouldn't trade multiple pointy end picks/players for 1 draftee

Think WC will field and except an overs deal this year, which will set them up nicely

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It's funny though. Briggs wasn't thought too highly of a couple of months back. Cameron was barely known before he moved to Collingwood. Nankervis hadn't done much at Sydney either. Don't think they'd have cost much to acquire at the time. On the flipside you've got Jackson & Grundy, two established players, coming across on sizable contracts.

Who is considered a top line ruck at the moment and how many are there in the comp?

O'Brien, McInnerney, Pittonet/De Koning, Cameron/Cox, Darcy/Jackson, Draper/Phillps, Witts, Stanley, Briggs, Reeves/Meek, Gawn/Grundy, Goldstein/Xerri, Lycett, Nankervis, Marshall, Hickey, English, Naitanui

That's 25 names, 11 standout solo rucks and 7 notable pairs. They're not all great and some of the good ones are in bottom-10 teams. I'd argue the only real top-line rucks in the top 8, based on current/recent form, are English and Marshall, and there's daylight between the two.

I just want a competitor, mobile enough to get around the ground and can take a mark but also big enough to provide a physical presence at stoppage/CB, who is fit enough to play big minutes and largely durable so we can get some consistency & continuity going (& not rely on other players having to step up & ruck).

Also we lost the hitouts yesterday 61-27. It's just that our mids really outperformed theirs, despite their two rucks getting hands to the ball about 2-1/4 times more than Young & Silvagni.

If I was putting a ranking together it would be something like
1. English
2. Gawn
3. Darcy
4. Grundy
5. Witts
6. Marshall
7. McIrneney
8. Obrien
9. Draper
10. Nankervis
11. Cameron
12. Lycett
13. Goldstein
14. Jackson
15. Briggs
16. Hickey
17. Stanley
18. TDK
19. Xerri
20. Phillips
21. Reeves
22. Pittonet
23. Meek
24. Cox
25. Bailey Williams

 

[Jeremias]

If I was putting a ranking together it would be something like
1. English
2. Gawn
3. Darcy
4. Grundy
5. Witts
6. Marshall
7. McIrneney
8. Obrien
9. Draper
10. Nankervis
11. Cameron
12. Lycett
13. Goldstein
14. Jackson
15. Briggs
16. Hickey
17. Stanley
18. TDK
19. Xerri
20. Phillips
21. Reeves
22. Pittonet
23. Meek
24. Cox
25. Bailey Williams

How many of the top 10 in that list have won a flag?

How does it compare to the bottom 15?

 

[CJMB]

If I was putting a ranking together it would be something like
1. English
2. Gawn
3. Darcy
4. Grundy
5. Witts
6. Marshall
7. McIrneney
8. Obrien
9. Draper
10. Nankervis
11. Cameron
12. Lycett
13. Goldstein
14. Jackson
15. Briggs
16. Hickey
17. Stanley
18. TDK
19. Xerri
20. Phillips
21. Reeves
22. Pittonet
23. Meek
24. Cox
25. Bailey Williams

and if you were going to break them into categories, who's top tier, who's serviceable and who's sub-par? Where are the lines drawn between the groupings? Because there's a crazy level of difference between English & Williams.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

How many of the top 10 in that list have won a flag?

How does it compare to the bottom 15?

From the list players who have played in a grandfinal since 2017
Stanley, Hickey, Gawn, Nankervis, Grundy, Lycett - Every single one of them maybe with the exception of Stanley last year would have been rated in the top 10 rucks in the comp in their premiership year.

 

[jj1978]

If Geelong do get TDK.. then I’d be asking for Esava and late first rounder.