So not a 'massive upgrade'?
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- Apr 20, 2006
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I think he will be, I think there will more interest in him then there has ever been for our guys.
Need to keep JSOS, Gov and Cunners as priority imo.
Fogarty has been playing decent in this winning stretch but is a limited player that can be replaced. Happy to keep him on a cheap contract. Marchbank played well this week, despite his injuries I think we will keep him on a cheap contract. The others can be reasonably easily replaced.
JSOS is required because so often at least 1 of Pitto, TDK or Mckay are injured...sometimes more at once. Has been very useful this year and we don't have many forward rucks on the list.
Gov has been huge this year...a big reason our defensive unit has been solid. Can play on the dangerous medium forwards like Elliott. Great interceptor and kick. Kicking goals even.
Cunners has been perfect for us as that high half forward who rotates into the midfield. Smooth mover, clean skills and so good below his knees...he keeps our ball movement flowing. So happy to see him getting a stretch of games and his body holding up, along with Martin.
Our players don't want out.
- Apr 20, 2006
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Hewett wanted out and Sydney let him go for a small contract. Dow hasn’t shown as much as Flanders has and is two years older. Kennedy was rookie listed last year so I imagine teams would’ve been able to get him if they rated him.
Flanders will gain more interest then any of those guys have and for good reason.
- Mar 25, 2019
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If we had both Ryan and Martin though we'd most likely get a full season from them combined. If both stayed fit for an extended period of time our forward line would be diabolically good.
None of that has anything to do with him being a massive upgrade.
Needs are:
1. Medium forward similar to Jack Martin. Quick, good overhead, good skills likes the physical stuff.
2. Fast inside mid. Cerra, Walsh, Docherty and Dow do that job. Recent changes in the game have opened things up for mids who can close in on the man and lose ball quickly as well as break away from stoppages and run forward with the ball. They apply elite pressure. Running forward with the ball creates space for forwards and breaks open team's zones (team defence). New rules have opened the game up at stoppages and in open play and that means you need less slow inside mids and more quick inside mids than you would have in the past. Walsh and Cerra have been injured a lot. Docherty getting older and probably better for us if he is wing/half back for us. Dow possibly going or us needing an upgrade. Cerra becoming more an inside extractor type than run and carry type. IMO we need another player similar to Walsh who can run all day, read the game, rack up possessions and give us that run through and carry from the stoppages. Ideally want two developing in the twos who are good enough to play the odd game and step up from time to time.
3. Key defender. Looking at the current side, we could do with a genuine key defender. Kemp playing as the second tall defender, he's not really tall enough. Someone with a bit extra size and height as well as the pace to defend one on one and run off and who can mark and kick well. I would not be surprised if we looked to recruit a mature one and a developing one.
That's probably the most important needs for us at the draft. You could add running half back to the list seeing as Docherty and Saad are getting older. Someone who is elite in their kicking and pace who can find the footy. So a Saad type. We're good for small defenders really. Good for medium defenders. Probably a tall defender short. Wingers we are really good for. Big heavy inside mids we are good. Burst mids, we could do with a couple developing IMO. Medium forwards we are ok with but we could improve here by adding elite talent. Tall forwards we are ok. Small forwards we are pretty good with and we have plenty of ruckmen.
I think we have the players to win a premiership. I don't know if we have the depth to cover injuries.
1. Medium forward similar to Jack Martin. Quick, good overhead, good skills likes the physical stuff.
2. Fast inside mid. Cerra, Walsh, Docherty and Dow do that job. Recent changes in the game have opened things up for mids who can close in on the man and lose ball quickly as well as break away from stoppages and run forward with the ball. They apply elite pressure. Running forward with the ball creates space for forwards and breaks open team's zones (team defence). New rules have opened the game up at stoppages and in open play and that means you need less slow inside mids and more quick inside mids than you would have in the past. Walsh and Cerra have been injured a lot. Docherty getting older and probably better for us if he is wing/half back for us. Dow possibly going or us needing an upgrade. Cerra becoming more an inside extractor type than run and carry type. IMO we need another player similar to Walsh who can run all day, read the game, rack up possessions and give us that run through and carry from the stoppages. Ideally want two developing in the twos who are good enough to play the odd game and step up from time to time.
3. Key defender. Looking at the current side, we could do with a genuine key defender. Kemp playing as the second tall defender, he's not really tall enough. Someone with a bit extra size and height as well as the pace to defend one on one and run off and who can mark and kick well. I would not be surprised if we looked to recruit a mature one and a developing one.
That's probably the most important needs for us at the draft. You could add running half back to the list seeing as Docherty and Saad are getting older. Someone who is elite in their kicking and pace who can find the footy. So a Saad type. We're good for small defenders really. Good for medium defenders. Probably a tall defender short. Wingers we are really good for. Big heavy inside mids we are good. Burst mids, we could do with a couple developing IMO. Medium forwards we are ok with but we could improve here by adding elite talent. Tall forwards we are ok. Small forwards we are pretty good with and we have plenty of ruckmen.
I think we have the players to win a premiership. I don't know if we have the depth to cover injuries.
- Apr 16, 2008
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Vfl spot is laughable sorry to say.
He currently "to the eye" has come into the Suns team and is out performing or at least on par with Anderson and Rowell. Most definitely out performing Miller, Swallow and Ellis. So if you think he is only vfl quality, I'm concerned by how you view the game.
Not saying he is a saviour. I just believe he would be in out 1sts and it seems people are over valuing our current crop of players.
Am I saying we need to go all in for him, of course not. But people thinking he cannot improve our team have rose colour glasses on.
- Apr 16, 2008
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Ps personally I'd chase Fin Macrae and hit the draft for a Caddy, Watson, Duursma type
- Sep 26, 2004
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Miller was BOG yesterday. Flanders isn't outperforming him at all unless you're looking purely at disposal numbers.
- Apr 20, 2006
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No and that’s why I said, “would likely be a massive upgrade”. He is trending that way and I was pointing out that I think most clubs would probably agree
- Apr 16, 2008
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I'm not basing it on 1 game nor disposal numbers. No idea why you would think i would. Basing it on what he has done since being recalled. And yes, Miller missed a few of Flanders games due to injury, but since Miller has been back id have Flanders comfortably better than Miller.
And even if Flanders is seen as slightly behind Miller, how does Flanders not make Carlton a much better team?
Again, I'm not stating we should 100% get him, but an argument that Miller might have been slightly better yesterday isn't a strong argument as Miller is an exceptional player.
- Sep 26, 2004
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You said he has been out-performing Miller. I simply said yesterday that was clearly not the case.
It wasn't a commentary on whether we should get Flanders.
- Apr 16, 2008
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And I simply stated he has been out performing Miller, which really needed no further discussion as anyone who has been watching the Suns recent should be well aware of.
- Aug 22, 2014
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Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood. He's absolutely better than VFL quality. But I believe your argument was that we're not as stacked in the midfield as some believe, and that Flanders would likely get plenty of games with us as injury cover - that to me isn't a strong enough selling point for him to choose us.
We've invested in Cerra, we're committed long term to Walsh and Cripps, Hewett is finding form again, Kennedy seems at worst on par with Flanders, and in my view a little more versatile. Cunners and Martin are clearly best 22 now fit. Doc is getting midfield time because it works and because it allows us to play 7-8 defenders for rotation management. Williams needs to come back in. Carrol and Binns are developing, Hollands may move into more of an on-ball role in time.
Maybe Flanders displaces someone. But it's a big investment in prying a required player out of GC for a "maybe", and it likely hinges on us promising him a starting spot because he ain't moving to play VFL while waiting for injuries to open the door.
Better, in my view, to hit the draft for that type. Less money, less immediate need for senior opportunity, more years in the game to come.
Only way I'm walking back on that view is if we, for example, traded one of Hewett or Kennedy so that we could target a younger version on similar money. Can't see that happening though, doesn't seem a particularly effective use of time or draft capital.
Again, no criticism of the player, just don't see the fit being right for us or him.
- Sep 26, 2004
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Nah sorry, not going to cop this. If you wanted to make a definitive comment and not be challenged on it if someone didn't agree, I'm not sure a forum is the place to do it.
I've watched every Suns game this season. It is bizarre and to be frank incredibly rude to suggest that anyone who has could hold a different opinion to you.
Miller was my BOG yesterday quite comfortably and it seems I am not alone in that given he won the Ashcroft medal. Flanders had a lot of it but didn't use it all that well nor did his disposals have much by way of impact.
Why would we exclude that game when determining recent form or whether one has "most definitely" out performed the other? Perhaps because it doesn't suit the argument?
- Aug 22, 2014
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Selfishly hoping we have a look at Aiden Begg from the Pies. Came in to play ruck when Collingwood's ruck division fell in a heap last year - he's not yet big enough for that gig full time, but he's got shades of JSOS in the undersized ruck support role. Scraps hard, incredibly quick by hand in the contest, neat field kick - but better overhead and on the lead.
Could see him being a handy utility. Pies have used him forward in the ressies but I think he'd make a solid backman too. Could be a genuine swingman with the ability to pinch hit in the ruck. Slightly shorter Lewis Young with more commitment to the contest and better football instincts.
Coached him for a number of years in cricket and he's a ripping lad.
Could see him being a handy utility. Pies have used him forward in the ressies but I think he'd make a solid backman too. Could be a genuine swingman with the ability to pinch hit in the ruck. Slightly shorter Lewis Young with more commitment to the contest and better football instincts.
Coached him for a number of years in cricket and he's a ripping lad.
TENACIOUS
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- Aug 16, 2008
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Think we have some options to trade…
Dow - starting to build “some” currency
Kennedy/Hewett - Can only play 1 in the 22 (our last 6 games have shown this)
Little Durdin - Fallen down the pecking order, offers less than Cuningham, Fogarty, Motlop & Owies
Fisher - Obviously now in the Dow category in the MCs thinking.
JSOS - As great as he’s been for the last few games, he’s never been able to offer forward craft consistently
Are the above willing to be in and out of the side scraping for a spot? Or move on to where they’d get regular game time…
There are quite a few cheap trade options available this year that would better our list… Gold Coast has plenty of them…
Dow - starting to build “some” currency
Kennedy/Hewett - Can only play 1 in the 22 (our last 6 games have shown this)
Little Durdin - Fallen down the pecking order, offers less than Cuningham, Fogarty, Motlop & Owies
Fisher - Obviously now in the Dow category in the MCs thinking.
JSOS - As great as he’s been for the last few games, he’s never been able to offer forward craft consistently
Are the above willing to be in and out of the side scraping for a spot? Or move on to where they’d get regular game time…
There are quite a few cheap trade options available this year that would better our list… Gold Coast has plenty of them…
- Apr 16, 2008
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Where did i state to exclude yesterday's game?
seems you're making up things now as you can read through my posts and you won't find that mentioned.Please point out where I said this please! Or will you just say you won't cop it, and "what is this" that you won't cop? Me saying Flanders played better than Miller over the past month or so? How has that got anything to do with you copping something? Why have you made this and my comments about you copping something?
And what argument am I making you don't agree with? I've simply stated Flanders has out performed Miller in the games since his return. It's just a point of view and ive spoken to plenty of people about Flanders and they all believe my statement.
I didn't realise you ventured to thinking this was an argument or something against you.
- Sep 26, 2004
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No, I haven't made anything up. I've just chosen not to exclude certain games when evaluating whether Player X has outperformed Player Y.Where did i state to exclude yesterday's game?
As for asking when did you state it, what else could possibly be surmised given the below?
I won't cop what I responded to directly. I thought that would be obvious, I'm sorry if it wasn't.
For the sake of clarity, it is poor to suggest that "anyone who has been watching the Suns recent should be well aware" that Flanders is "most definitely out performing" Miller.
It's rude and it's dismissive. Not exactly conducive to forum discussion, wouldn't you say?
And frankly that is very clearly not the case. Miller was voted BOG just yesterday's game. A game which Flanders also played in.
Even if you think that's wrong and Flanders outperformed Miller, it's not clearly in Sam's favour at all.
Trade Corey Durdin??? For starters, Cunners and Fog are higher half forwards, so is competing for a small forward spot with Motlop and Owies. And I would argue that Owies isn't actually a true 'small forward', more than a marking/tackling forward who is trapped in a little man's body, and limited in most other areas.
And he's missed a bucket load of footy this year after coming off a shoulder reconstruction over summer which obviously still isn't 100%. IMO, Durds and Motlop are our most dangerous small forwards by a country mile - and still only 21yo and 19yo respectively, so still on the improve.
His form this year has dropped, but right at the same time the whole team had a form slump. Sometimes we have short memories of our players when they're on the sidelines.
- Apr 16, 2008
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Ok ok.
You've lost me.
Firstly you get very upset when a personal attack comes your way yet you feel the need to state what I've stated is rude and dismissive. Pot kettle black?
Anyways, your reply about me supposedly saying I mentioned I excluded this week's performance sure as hell doesn't state that. Not at all.
Anyways, have a great Sunday.
Is he a Cat B (thought last year before upgrade, if so)?
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