List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Flaggers_23]

Something like that (or even our 1st + F1 for #4) would be good for us, and would work for them, but I think they'll get better offers from teams expected to finish much lower than us next year (ie a much better F1).

Yeah every team will be after it, our only advantage could be if we can offer multiple second and third rounders this year, cause all they are really after is points, but that requires us loosing depth players.

 

[bigblueboy]

Good post.
As a Tall Forward, I think Jack is ahead of TDK, and I think you have Cuningham too low as a forward (ahead of Durdin and Fog for mine), but I think this is a good way of thinking about the list.

Yep could definitely be convinced on those changes - it's difficult because of inconsistency in roles and performance during the past two years. Reckon Austin is a good judge however.

 

[bmaurizio]

Something like that (or even our 1st + F1 for #4) would be good for us, and would work for them, but I think they'll get better offers from teams expected to finish much lower than us next year (ie a much better F1).

Agree Gold Coast will get a very good offer for pick 4, this selection could snare Zane Duursma , good goal sense , athleticism, clean hands , arial ability a dream outcome for Baggers , Suns will receive 3 quality youngsters with great potential so they can comfortably to purse a trade For their 1st rounder , We should be as aggressive as possible .

 

[Opium]

Watching Flanders dominating for Gold Coast and we overlooked him for O'Brien.
Was touted as a top 10 pick as well. Would've been great in our midfield.

 

[Doro]

Watching Flanders dominating for Gold Coast and we overlooked him for O'Brien.
Was touted as a top 10 pick as well. Would've been great in our midfield.

LOB was 2017 draft, Flanders 2019. That was the pick that we swapped with the Crows for Stocker and then downgraded for Kemp and Philp.

 

[macky99]

Watching Flanders dominating for Gold Coast and we overlooked him for O'Brien.
Was touted as a top 10 pick as well. Would've been great in our midfield.

Who would he replace ?not certain this is a great area of need right now.

 

[beowulf]

Watching Flanders dominating for Gold Coast and we overlooked him for O'Brien.
Was touted as a top 10 pick as well. Would've been great in our midfield.

Don't think they were in the same draft, but O'Brien is looking very lemon-like at the moment. I can't see him remaining: just not a good decision maker.

 

[thylacine60]

Watching Flanders dominating for Gold Coast and we overlooked him for O'Brien.
Was touted as a top 10 pick as well. Would've been great in our midfield.

hindsight drafting............there's something new.............

 

[beowulf]

Considering how much talent Gold Coast has on its list, I'd be looking closely at some of the guys not getting a game. Gold Coast have a very poor record of developing talent to date, somewhat like us a few years back. I'm sure there is something there that we can get cheaply who could be a lot more than has been presently shown.

 

[BigFrizz36]

hindsight drafting............there's something new.............

Not only hindsight drafting but as been pointed out not even close to being in the same draft.

We overlooked Flanders to trade down which netted us Kemp and Philp . A lot to play out before it could be determined either a win or loss (although Kemp is structurally very important for us).

I would suggest that people are less likely to value opinions of certain posters if certain posters can't be bothered checking facts.

 

[thylacine60]

Not only hindsight drafting but as been pointed out not even close to being in the same draft.

We overlooked Flanders to trade down which netted us Kemp and Philp . A lot to play out before it could be determined either a win or loss (although Kemp is structurally very important for us).

I would suggest that people are less likely to value opinions of certain posters if certain posters can't be bothered checking facts.

there is zero evidence that player b would have developed any better than player a in our shit system - but hey, anyone but lob, eh..........

 

[gbatman]

At the end of last year LOB was our best winger. Then we landed Acres who is one of the leagues best, drafted Hollands, drafted Binns, shifted Docherty to a wing at times and have had Cottrell develop. He's now behind these 6 for a spot on the wing. At the time we signed him for 2 years we were all OK with it, things changed very quickly, now we will be looking to trade him out.

O'Brien is not a bad winger, he's just average, and we've gone hard and successfully at filling the wing positions.

The Camporeale twins will add further to our glut of wingmen I am guessing aswell.

 

[branedotorg]

On that note, would love Kade Simpson to come and teach the physically committed Hollands how to look after himself. Has already been over exposed this year and can see his courage leading to wearing some damage. It was great seeing him prop but then re-commit his body to the cause on return this year. No way I'd stand in front of the steam trains running around out there these days

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Can't see that happening, is an assistant at Hawthorn now and when asked if he'd be supporting us in the finals he said 'no, I have some friends there still but I'm invested in the Hawks now'.

Not super surprising but the way he said it made it sound like more that him towing the company line.

 

[DangerousD]

Can't see that happening, is an assistant at Hawthorn now and when asked if he'd be supporting us in the finals he said 'no, I have some friends there still but I'm invested in the Hawks now'.

Not super surprising but the way he said it made it sound like more that him towing the company line.

Quite a strange thing to say, i dont know how being invested in the Hawks as a coach would stop you being supportive of your former club in a finals series you aren’t involved in.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

hindsight drafting............there's something new.............

How about we use foresight drafting, instead?

 

[branedotorg]

Quite a strange thing to say, i dont know how being invested in the Hawks as a coach would stop you being supportive of your former club in a finals series you aren’t involved in.

It was on ABC grandstand yesterday, in the lead up to the Hawks Freo game.

I don't know the guy but I somehow wasn't surprised.

 

[lily of laguna]

It was on ABC grandstand yesterday, in the lead up to the Hawks Freo game.

I don't know the guy but I somehow wasn't surprised.

I’m surprised!

1 club player, in the games record top 5, probably got a pretty good nest egg from the club.

Will go down as one of the most unsuccessful players of all time win/loss ratio.

What his story????

Surely he can celebrate the success of his club even if he is only looking on!




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[Blue and Silver]

Watching Flanders dominating for Gold Coast and we overlooked him for O'Brien.
Was touted as a top 10 pick as well. Would've been great in our midfield.

Not only wrong draft. But we traded the pick used to draft him to slide back in the first round and picked up Kemp.

I believe the feeling was that he was talented but had questions about application.

Happy to be corrected as 2019 is a long time ago now

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ferrisb]

Surely he can celebrate the success of his club even if he is only looking on!

Does this look like the face of a man who celebrates?

 

[Stamos]

I’m surprised!

1 club player, in the games record top 5, probably got a pretty good nest egg from the club.

Will go down as one of the most unsuccessful players of all time win/loss ratio.

What his story????

Surely he can celebrate the success of his club even if he is only looking on!

You do realise that there's a difference between reality and what is practical and acceptable to say as the employee of another club, don't you?

 

[DangerousD]

You do realise that there's a difference between reality and what is practical and acceptable to say as the employee of another club, don't you?

Long bow to draw here, Betts when employed by Geelong still spoke publicly about him wanting the Blues to do well.

Roughead also spoke about wanting Hawthorn to do well.

Some people just move on

 

[PezzDogg95]

The club desperately needs to recruit a Key Forward / 2nd Ruck this offseason, it is currently the biggest gap on our list and we have struggled to fill it all season (injuries or otherwise).

Our best structure is with a #1 ruck, a ruck/key fwd and two key forward targets. We need 6 guys to be AFL ready to fill 4 positions, we currently only have 5 and it shows.

• Pittonet (#1 Ruck)
• De Koning (#1 Ruck - break glass KPF/Ruck)
• ??? (KPF/Ruck - break glass #1 ruck, break glass KPF)
• McKay (KPF)
• Curnow (KPF)
• Silvagni (KPF - break glass KPF/Ruck)

We also have Mirkov, O'Keeffe and Lemmey/Akuei, who are all not ready for AFL footy. We have one too many developing talls, and not enough ready to go. My thoughts on Mirkov's list position have been documented previously.

I know these players dont grow on trees, but in my opinion, not having the necessary KPF/Ruck depth has hampered the way we want to play this year.

All year I've been touring Hayden McLean

2

Hayden Mclean

Age

25

Ht

197cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.3

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

10.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.2

3star

from the Swans to be this guy, but he has broken out in the back end of the season. The Swans surely wouldnt part with him now that Buddy & Hickey are going. Would now cost close to a first rounder, even uncontracted as he is.

Not sure what other options are out there on the market, but we need one for 2024 if want to contend.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Long bow to draw here, Betts when employed by Geelong still spoke publicly about him wanting the Blues to do well.

Roughead also spoke about wanting Hawthorn to do well.

Some people just move on

Not sure that Kade Simpson is beholden to the club. Gave everything for the club whilst he played. One club player. Not sure that the club repaid his efforts by giving him the best environment whilst he was there.

People are wired differently. Have heard that Harmesy went back to supporting his childhood club (Richmond) once he finished. Even if he did both Harmesy and Simmo should be remembered for what they are - Carlton champions.

 

[moocow]

You do realise that there's a difference between reality and what is practical and acceptable to say as the employee of another club, don't you?

I still shop at Safeway over Coles but I’m not going to do an add for them. I was only 16 and in the deli, but same same

 

[Blue__Balls]

The club desperately needs to recruit a Key Forward / 2nd Ruck this offseason, it is currently the biggest gap on our list and we have struggled to fill it all season (injuries or otherwise).

Our best structure is with a #1 ruck, a ruck/key fwd and two key forward targets. We need 6 guys to be AFL ready to fill 4 positions, we currently only have 5 and it shows.

• Pittonet (#1 Ruck)
• De Koning (#1 Ruck - break glass KPF/Ruck)
• ??? (KPF/Ruck - break glass #1 ruck, break glass KPF)
• McKay (KPF)
• Curnow (KPF)
• Silvagni (KPF - break glass KPF/Ruck)

We also have Mirkov, O'Keeffe and Lemmey/Akuei, who are all not ready for AFL footy. We have one too many developing talls, and not enough ready to go. My thoughts on Mirkov's list position have been documented previously.

I know these players dont grow on trees, but in my opinion, not having the necessary KPF/Ruck depth has hampered the way we want to play this year.

All year I've been touring Hayden McLean from the Swans to be this guy, but he has broken out in the back end of the season. The Swans surely wouldnt part with him now that Buddy & Hickey are going. Would now cost close to a first rounder, even uncontracted as he is.

Not sure what other options are out there on the market, but we need one for 2024 if want to contend.

Levi Casboult is out of contract and an Unrestricted Free Agent....


Seriously though - it's an intriguing hole in our list.

We seem to like playing two genuine rucks. Part of me thinks that's because neither are able to ruck a whole game, we don't have a dedicated ruck/fwd to partner them, and we have two elite key forwards that 100% must play - rather than any academic belief that two rucks is the "best" setup. It makes for a challenging selection conundrum.

Rucks: TDK, Pittonet, Mirkov, O'Keefe
Key forwards: Curnow, McKay, Lemmey(?)
Ruck/forwards: JSOS, Young(?)

Option 1: Pick 2 rucks, pick 2 key forwards
Option 2: Pick 1 ruck, pick 2 key forwards, pick 1 ruck/fwd
Option 3: Pick 1 ruck, pick 2 key forwards

Option 1 is the current default. It's attractive because it gives us the best shot at 4 quarters of strong ruckwork, and it leaves our two marquee key forwards as the main targets ahead of the ball. It does eat into the run we have in the side, and means we're committing to a fair bit of bench time split between the two rucks. Our list profile seems to have been adjusted to accommodate though (lots of endurance runners - Walsh, Acres, Hollands, Cottrell, Curnow).

Option 2 is one we've flirted with when one of our starting rucks has been injured. JSOS has done OK in the role but is more a rover than an actual ruck, and Young also did OK in his brief cameo but lacks physicality and follow-up work. We're also finding that the ruck/forward struggles to impact forward because they're the third target and therefore lack the supply required to impact regularly (also, neither of our ruck/forwards are elite marks and kicks forward of the ball).

Option 3 we tried yesterday, and it forces us to use McKay in the ruck at times. He wasn't great. Wasn't even good. But he's also had bugger all experience there, and I'm sure if we put more work into it he could improve dramatically. Problem is that (if the main ruck is taking their rests on the bench) it leaves us short a target up forward, and it risks a premium asset in a role that can see some nasty knee injuries.

If we want to address it in the off-season I think there are a few ways we could go.

- Recruit a top-line ruck, push Pitto to depth or offer him up for trade, and force TDK to work hard on his forward craft. Sean Darcy is the obvious one here, or make a bold play for Brodie Grundy. Seems unlikely.
- Recruit a depth ruck who is physically ready to step into the main role when needed. Matthew Flynn and Nick Bryan seem like potential options who are currently out of contract, but may get offers elsewhere that include gametime. Jordon Sweet seems to get decent wraps from Doggies fans, but I don't know much about him.
- Recruit a top-line ruck/forward, push Pitto to depth of offer him up for trade, and give TDK the keys to the city as the main ruck. Hayden McLean looks like the main candidate here, maybe a late play for Esava Ratugolea? Also, what's the go with Tim O'Brien these days?
- Recruit a depth ruck/forward, one who is able to play either role to an OK standard but happy to wait in the VFL til needed. Haven't heard a peep about him since he was picked up, but wasn't Jacob Edwards (first MSD pick in 2021) supposed to be a really good developing prospect?

Or we elect not to address it, and accept that every list usually has some kind of quirk that needs to be worked with rather than around. Take a horses for courses approach in 2024 - use the two ruck strategy some weeks, the one ruck + JSOS strategy in other weeks, keep the Harry-in-the-ruck option in the back pocket, only to be used if in-game injuries force our hand.

It's possible that O'Keefe, Lemmey and/or Mirkov are the answer, and we just need to ride it out another year or two while they develop.

Or something a little more spicy - does Dom Akuei have the profile to be developed as a more athletic JSOS? I know he lacks the game sense, but could he play like a taller Jack Martin - occasional marking target, apply a bit of pressure, but also go into the ruck and jump over people's heads?