List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[JustaBattler]

If we're relying on Martin rotating through the middle we're in trouble.

Honey might be able to do it but I haven't seen it yet.

Doc would certainly help.

I would be playing Honey and Kemp week in week out in firsts - tbh am frustrated by their lack of exposure to AFL - whilst wasting time on players who hit their low ceiling a couple of years ago.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Not going to rehash the majority of your post

Owies being replaced by Honey, I am fine with, can't see Fisher being dropped after 1 poor game, where he wasn't the only poor contributor and certainly can't see Pitto replacing him, as we become slower again as a whole

I think, if Pitto comes in, it will be for Jsos

I’m not happy with the speed in the side either and definitely needs to be the number 1 priority at the end of the season but with injuries to Durdin, Cuningham and Cottrell we don’t have the options in the reserves, Fisher himself doesn’t offer much speed, he has a nice quick sidestep but doesn’t chase anyone down or run away from anyone.

 

[katmanblue]

Okay, so you haven't been able to drill down and lock in his direct opponent who dominated a game while playing on Fisher, yet offered up 2 players in the Tigers game that played well.

So who was the other forward, as both Vlastuin and Broad would have an opponent each

Perhaps Rioli, who was the most dominant HB, should have been marked a little closer by Owies?

Mots could play that role, but he is already in the side as, a forward

Question still remains, who replaces Fisher in the side, without negatively impacting another area

If Fisher is returning a stat line of zeros after half time, how does one negatively impact another area?

Which area, exactly, is he regularly positively impacting?

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[Juice030103]

Need to get ourselves some speedy forwards ya feel


Also need a mid who can break away from contests (would’ve been nice if it was Dow)

 

[thylacine60]

Remember 12 months ago when we were discussing the current season, not the next one?

 

[Stamos]

Reasons for and against each, of course. I'm also not suggesting we should make the call right this minute, Fish is a senior player and probably deserves a chance to respond against Geelong.

There's also a question (externally anyway, the coaching group would have a better idea) on just why Fish completely dropped off the radar for the best part of three quarters. Was it system, and he was in the right place while the ball was going to the wrong spots? Was it system, and Fish was going to the wrong spots while the ball was going to the right spots? Was it a defensive job on him, and he needs to work through closer opposition attention? Was he given a defensive job on an opponent, and if so did he do it well enough to justify failing to find the ball? The root cause of the disappearance has a lot to say about how "fixable" it is, or how we should approach the possibility of moving magnets.

What I will say is that I struggle to see a valid reason for any player, let alone a 24yo with almost 100 games to his name, to go three quarters without touching the ball. It's not necessarily an immediate drop offence, but it does bear very close scrutiny over the coming month (and season) because that is the definition of a passenger, which is something we don't have the luxury of in a year where finals is the minimum expectation.

Should we determine in the coming weeks that Fisher's position isn't giving us the returns we need, then I see a number of alternatives that could be trialled, with a variety of flow-on effects to the forward/midfield structure, that should be strongly considered.

It's stranger because he started so well.

 

[JustaBattler]

Not going to rehash the majority of your post

Owies being replaced by Honey, I am fine with, can't see Fisher being dropped after 1 poor game, where he wasn't the only poor contributor and certainly can't see Pitto replacing him, as we become slower again as a whole

I think, if Pitto comes in, it will be for Jsos

If Pittonet doesn't come in Voss is just making the whole game harder for no reason(s).

If we're relying on Martin rotating through the middle we're in trouble.

Honey might be able to do it but I haven't seen it yet.

Doc would certainly help.

Martin is an excellent ground ball contested player - do not understand why he isnt given some rotations. Re Honey- apparently he played very well when given a chance as an onballer in VFL a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Need to get ourselves some speedy forwards ya feel


Also need a mid who can break away from contests (would’ve been nice if it was Dow)

Could still be Dow. Kicked 4 goals in the ressies last week I think, and the match report indicated that forward craft was going to be his area of focus for the near future. Wouldn't need to set the world on fire to make a claim for a forward flank position with mid rotations. Just needs to apply plenty of pressure, hit the scoreboard a couple of times, and have an impact on-ball in short bursts.

Not convinced he's got the game sense for it, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I would be playing Honey and Kemp week in week out in firsts - tbh am frustrated by their lack of exposure to AFL - whilst wasting time on players who hit their low ceiling a couple of years ago.

I am frustrated these guys haven’t come on as we hoped but have they earned the opportunity? As much as I agree with you guys like Plowman, Ed, Owies, SOS are low ceiling there is still something the coaches are seeing in them to continually pick them ahead of these 2.

I’m more frustrated Honey and Kemp (and Dow and Carroll) haven’t been able to make an impression over the preseason to warrant selection. I don’t think it’s because the coaches are conservative either as they were willing to give games to rookies Hollands and Cowan.

 

[Arr0w]

I’m not happy with the speed in the side either and definitely needs to be the number 1 priority at the end of the season but with injuries to Durdin, Cuningham and Cottrell we don’t have the options in the reserves, Fisher himself doesn’t offer much speed, he has a nice quick sidestep but doesn’t chase anyone down or run away from anyone.

All 3 are injured, so again, I can't see Fisher being dropped this week

If Fisher is returning a stat line of zeros after half time, how does one negatively impact another area?

Which area, exactly, is he regularly positively impacting?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Talking about selection changes, not in-game

 

[JustaBattler]

I am frustrated these guys haven’t come on as we hoped but have they earned the opportunity? As much as I agree with you guys like Plowman, Ed, Owies, SOS are low ceiling there is still something the coaches are seeing in them to continually pick them ahead of these 2.

I’m more frustrated Honey and Kemp (and Dow and Carroll) haven’t been able to make an impression over the preseason to warrant selection. I don’t think it’s because the coaches are conservative either as they were willing to give games to rookies Hollands and Cowan.

Agree - we will have to wait for VFL to start I guess - but Kemp as a something something defender leaves me cold. Honey might have been played over Owies - I guess Owies has more experience judging by his chest pouffing on field maybe has more voice ...but it is going to take a long time and some serious payback for me to forgive his under no pressure sideways bungled kick to Saad last year and numerous other examples of 'keep him away from the ball in red time' profile.

 

[Jatz]

If Pittonet doesn't come in Voss is just making the whole game harder for no reason(s).


Martin is an excellent ground ball contested player - do not understand why he isnt given some rotations. Re Honey- apparently he played very well when given a chance as an onballer in VFL a couple of weeks ago.

Where was this shown? In seniors or the VFL?

Not against giving him a go but really don't see it working out.

 

[JustaBattler]

Where was this shown? In seniors or the VFL?

Not against giving him a go but really don't see it working out.

Every time there is a contested ball on the ground in the forward line he is hard to beat.

 

[Jatz]

Every time there is a contested ball on the ground in the forward line he is hard to beat.

He averaged 5 contested disposals last year.

You and I see his game very differently it seems. I'd love to see him in the centre and winning the contested ball as you say, I just struggle to see him beating midfielders in contests.

 

[JustaBattler]

He averaged 5 contested disposals last year.

You and I see his game very differently it seems. I'd love to see him in the centre and winning the contested ball as you say, I just struggle to see him beating midfielders in contests.

His name was suggested as one of a few players that can be put into some rotations

Docherty, Martin, Cuningham* ( when fit), Jack Silvagni , Fisher
if Dow could hold a spot in HFF then he would be played no doubt as a good rotation option

I see all of Honey/Durdin and Motlop as future options as they develop their games

all the best sides do it.

Would free blokes like Hewett, Kennedy and Cripps as dangerous forward rotations...

There is plenty of optionality in the list and I would hope that Voss and Co explore the full potential of all players.

Just don't expect these types ( Cuningham aside) to be able to beat the best that opposition has to offer more than not - halving contests is a win in teh contested game Carlton wants to play.

 

[Wickzki]

If Pittonet doesn't come in Voss is just making the whole game harder for no reason(s).

Agree with this. Only reason I'd keep him out is if they don't consider him fit enough yet to get through 4 quarters of an AFL grade game. If not then surely it's R3.

 

[macky99]

Could still be Dow. Kicked 4 goals in the ressies last week I think, and the match report indicated that forward craft was going to be his area of focus for the near future. Wouldn't need to set the world on fire to make a claim for a forward flank position with mid rotations. Just needs to apply plenty of pressure, hit the scoreboard a couple of times, and have an impact on-ball in short bursts.

Not convinced he's got the game sense for it, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

I agree Dow or Carroll surely have more to offer than Owies & Curnow for different reasons, Martin is reaching a point with his injuries and non performance should not continue to be gifted games on a reputation that is rapidly decreasing.

 

[Sector 7G]

I agree Dow or Carroll surely have more to offer than Owies & Curnow for different reasons, Martin is reaching a point with his injuries and non performance should not continue to be gifted games on a reputation that is rapidly decreasing.

The issue is Martin should not have been brought straight into the team off no preseason games.

Owies and Motlop had 10 possessions which is not too far below par for a small forward, especially when you only get it I50 46 times for the game. Rioli only got it 11 times.

People seem to be over reacting to a draw in a game we were 50/50 to win. After the turnover from H dropping the mark we defended well and in the last crucial contest Weiters, Young and McG allowed a contested mark by the 1 guy capable of doing it. Haven't seem any flak coming their way.

 

[Stamos]

After the turnover from H dropping the mark we defended well

Can't agree with this. The team defence in those 30 odd seconds was really poor.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The issue is Martin should not have been brought straight into the team off no preseason games.

Owies and Motlop had 10 possessions which is not too far below par for a small forward, especially when you only get it I50 46 times for the game. Rioli only got it 11 times.

People seem to be over reacting to a draw in a game we were 50/50 to win. After the turnover from H dropping the mark we defended well and in the last crucial contest Weiters, Young and McG allowed a contested mark by the 1 guy capable of doing it. Haven't seem any flak coming their way.

Young in particular had a shocker there. Not sure what he was doing, but last replay I watched it appeared that he just loitered at the back of the pack and watched Lynch jump.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Has North developed LDU better or has he just come of age.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Come of age & injury free, dealt with different injuries during the early years…

 

[Blue__Balls]

Can't agree with this. The team defence in those 30 odd seconds was really poor.

Depends how we're defining team defence.

Richmond got it from the defensive 50 turnover, after Harry's dropped mark, to a little forward of centre with relative ease. But at that point we slowed their run and forced them to go laterally. Then they bombed it long and high to a contest where we had multiple talls in perfect position to impact. Those talls didn't. The team defence that stopped the quick play, and then forced a long high entry (which is preferred to a lace-out pass to a loose forward) was fine. The resulting contest was arse.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

What was Fisher doing if Vlastuin and Grimes essentially left on his own?

fisher was rotating when the wingers and mids folded back. He was helping defensively to help outnumber but he was cooked when running offensively. I don’t know where his engine has gone or perhaps he lost confidence when he wasn’t finding the footy but we need him engaged offensively because without him we become too predictable. I wouldn’t mind seeing him play down back or on a wing to give us some zip there. Probably too late to learn a new role now though…

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I have been a fan of his, but am prepared for us to lose Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

30

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

(who seemingly wants another pay day and or team up with his brother)

Reckon we drafted and will develop Lemmey to take his spot in the team eventually.

 

[Jeremias]

I have been a fan of his, but am prepared for us to lose Mitch McGovern (who seemingly wants another pay day and or team up with his brother)

Reckon we drafted and will develop Lemmey to take his spot in the team eventually.

Lemmey and McGovern aren’t particularly similar footballers.