List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[BRADLESTICKS]

Looks like Fisher is now well and truly embedded as a whipping boy

This on the back of last year, his best year, where he averaged 10th most disposals, number 1 for that forward/mid role ( not a fulltime mid or defender)

7th for score involvements, 9th for inside 50s, 8th for pressure, 6th for goals

1 of 3 players that could stay on the park all year

Looking forward to others stepping up and averaging and or surpassing those numbers

Fishers role for a majority of the time last year was as a high half forward with very small bursts on ball, for the role he played those stats you’ve provided aren’t impressive at all.

As that unaccountable high half forward he needs to be at least top 3 or 4 for score involvements and inside 50s, averaging less than a goal a game is also pretty poor as is his ability to win loose ball gets inside 50.

Fishers defensive side is almost nonexistent he gets his pressure act numbers (which are still low) up by corralling and giving a light tug on the oppositions jumper, he never has chase down tackles due to his lack of speed and fitness, fisher also puts absolutely no fear into the opposition when he doesn’t have the ball no halfbacks are panicking when they see fisher chasing them.

Finally my biggest and main issue with fisher is the damage his opponent does every week due to his total lack of accountability and respect for his opponent, the opposition always put their most damaging halfback on fisher because they know he gets lost up the ground chasing cheap kicks, it’s ok to be an unaccountable half forward if you impact the game the way Papley, degoey, Pickett, Bolton or Bailey do but not if your having such little influence on the results of games as fisher does.

 

[SurreyBlue]

My goodness, is there anyone we drafted and developed over the past 5 or so years that you lot like or think they play their role? Anyone - because we all know Cripps doesn’t defend and Walsh is just vanilla.

 

[bmaurizio]

There’ll certainly be a list clean out, it’s vital and paramount , irrespective of TDK‘s future playing decision.
The 2023 draft has good depth, a quality top 20.
No problem, should Tom seek greener pastures, Austin will guarantee decent compensation.

 

[carlton_99]

My goodness, is there anyone we drafted and developed over the past 5 or so years that you lot like or think they play their role? Anyone - because we all know Cripps doesn’t defend and Walsh is just vanilla.

Harry fell over on Thursday and snaps the ball so I'm off him forever

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Fisher suffers from being the only player in our forward 50 who sets up play for teammates and can cut through a zone with his kicking. That means he often gets the oppositions best run with small defender. If players like Owies and Motlop were contributing more he'd have a far easier job. Martin has always been extraordinarily hot and cold but when he's on he's got match winning ability. He's not a team contributor, just the X-factor type who has 5 minutes of brilliance on occasion which can be invaluable. Similar player to Rohan, not as good defensively but still a good player.

Add Ben Ainsworth

9

Ben Ainsworth

Age

26

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

6.1

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

0.3

2star

D

13.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

0.8

3star

or Alex Neal Bullen types to our forward line and we'd have more success as we wouldn't be so one dimensional up the field bringing it into the fwd 50. We still need a genuine 3rd option down there whether its a small, mid or tall. JSOS is simply not what we need imo. TDK is a chance of becoming that option but I'd much rather a genuine goal sneak in the mould of Tory Dickson

29

Tory Dickson

Age

37

Ht

184cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.6

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.8

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.0

4star

or Ginnivan who doesn't really affect the structure as much and only need 10 touches to have a big influence on games.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Except Carroll has seemingly stagnated.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Should be put in the team at half forward and left there. Same as Kemp. All season. Same as Cottrell when he's fit again. Same as Boyd when he's fit again.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Fisher suffers from being the only player in our forward 50 who sets up play for teammates and can cut through a zone with his kicking. That means he often gets the oppositions best run with small defender. If players like Owies and Motlop were contributing more he'd have a far easier job. Martin has always been extraordinarily hot and cold but when he's on he's got match winning ability. He's not a team contributor, just the X-factor type who has 5 minutes of brilliance on occasion which can be invaluable. Similar player to Rohan, not as good defensively but still a good player.

Add Ben Ainsworth or Alex Neal Bullen types to our forward line and we'd have more success as we wouldn't be so one dimensional up the field bringing it into the fwd 50. We still need a genuine 3rd option down there whether its a small, mid or tall. JSOS is simply not what we need imo. TDK is a chance of becoming that option but I'd much rather a genuine goal sneak in the mould of Tory Dickson or Ginnivan who doesn't really affect the structure as much and only need 10 touches to hav

Fisher suffers from being the only player in our forward 50 who sets up play for teammates and can cut through a zone with his kicking. That means he often gets the oppositions best run with small defender. If players like Owies and Motlop were contributing more he'd have a far easier job. Martin has always been extraordinarily hot and cold but when he's on he's got match winning ability. He's not a team contributor, just the X-factor type who has 5 minutes of brilliance on occasion which can be invaluable. Similar player to Rohan, not as good defensively but still a good player.

Add Ben Ainsworth or Alex Neal Bullen types to our forward line and we'd have more success as we wouldn't be so one dimensional up the field bringing it into the fwd 50. We still need a genuine 3rd option down there whether its a small, mid or tall. JSOS is simply not what we need imo. TDK is a chance of becoming that option but I'd much rather a genuine goal sneak in the mould of Tory Dickson or Ginnivan who doesn't really affect the structure as much and only need 10 touches to have a big influence on games.

I think we absolutely missed a trick by not shuffling draft picks to get Mattheus Phillipou. The medium sized forward we absolutely needed next to Harry and Charlie.

 

[Arr0w]

Fishers role for a majority of the time last year was as a high half forward with very small bursts on ball, for the role he played those stats you’ve provided aren’t impressive at all.

As that unaccountable high half forward he needs to be at least top 3 or 4 for score involvements and inside 50s, averaging less than a goal a game is also pretty poor as is his ability to win loose ball gets inside 50.

Fishers defensive side is almost nonexistent he gets his pressure act numbers (which are still low) up by corralling and giving a light tug on the oppositions jumper, he never has chase down tackles due to his lack of speed and fitness, fisher also puts absolutely no fear into the opposition when he doesn’t have the ball no halfbacks are panicking when they see fisher chasing them.

Finally my biggest and main issue with fisher is the damage his opponent does every week due to his total lack of accountability and respect for his opponent, the opposition always put their most damaging halfback on fisher because they know he gets lost up the ground chasing cheap kicks, it’s ok to be an unaccountable half forward if you impact the game the way Papley, degoey, Pickett, Bolton or Bailey do but not if your having such little influence on the results of games as fisher does.

Think you have cherry picked some of the best HF/mids in the competition to make a case

But 2 questions.

Who at Carlton is capable of playing that role and or without negatively impacting their current role

Which of his opponents last year, created this so called damage, that severely hurt our prospects

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I think we absolutely missed a trick by not shuffling draft picks to get Mattheus Phillipou. The medium sized forward we absolutely needed next to Harry and Charlie.

We tried moving up for Sheezel from memory, he plays as a 3rd marking option similar to Toby Greene. Obviously he's excelling at half back for now but he would have been a great get for us. Philippou I'm less convinced by as I think he'll be far more a midfielder than fwd but both would have been good. More than happy with Hollands at our selection and we can try to bring that option in this off season.

 

[BigFrizz36]

We tried moving up for Sheezel from memory, he plays as a 3rd marking option similar to Toby Greene. Obviously he's excelling at half back for now but he would have been a great get for us. Philippou I'm less convinced by as I think he'll be far more a midfielder than fwd but both would have been good. More than happy with Hollands at our selection and we can try to bring that option in this off season.

There is a fairly strong belief that Phillipou is about a 50/50 chance to want to ho home, probably dependant on how his team plays. So unless he plans to play till 2166 when the saints are due to win another flag there is that risk.

Sheezel would have been great but hard to see how we could have got there. Hollands will be a great 200+ gamer for us who will get better every year for his first five years as he grows into his body. Add Cowan and hoping that Lemmy and Binns come through we might be looking back on the 2022 draft with great fondness.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Should be put in the team at half forward and left there. Same as Kemp. All season. Same as Cottrell when he's fit again. Same as Boyd when he's fit again.

Surely it would be preferable for them to show that they deserve their slot either than have them be gifted, we're not in rebuild mode any more.

Playing Hollands and Cowan last week indicates that Voss is prepared to give youngsters a go who show that they have earned it.

 

[Beyond Blue]

There is a fairly strong belief that Phillipou is about a 50/50 chance to want to ho home, probably dependant on how his team plays. So unless he plans to play till 2166 when the saints are due to win another flag there is that risk.

Sheezel would have been great but hard to see how we could have got there. Hollands will be a great 200+ gamer for us who will get better every year for his first five years as he grows into his body. Add Cowan and hoping that Lemmy and Binns come through we might be looking back on the 2022 draft with great fondness.

I have for a long time thought St Kilda would win its next flag in 2066…

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Should be put in the team at half forward and left there. Same as Kemp. All season. Same as Cottrell when he's fit again. Same as Boyd when he's fit again.

After watching every VFL game for the past 2 seasons(on the telly), Carroll looked great early 2021, but he has lost consistency and intensity.
He reminds me of Setters, not dreadful, but just cruises along most games.(his kicking is poor)

 

[BigFrizz36]

I have for a long time thought St Kilda would win its next flag in 2066…

Yep agree.

Maybe as the northern Territory buffalo saints?

There is also a small unininhabited island a long long way to the Northwest of Scotland called Stkilda. They could play there in front of 20,000 garnets and be more relevant than they currently are.

 

[The Bighouse]

So after Damian Barrett’s report this morning, who would everyone rather have Ben McKay or TDK??

Where is this?

 

[I bleed Blue]

Looks like Fisher is now well and truly embedded as a whipping boy

This on the back of last year, his best year, where he averaged 10th most disposals, number 1 for that forward/mid role ( not a fulltime mid or defender)

7th for score involvements, 9th for inside 50s, 8th for pressure, 6th for goals

1 of 3 players that could stay on the park all year

Looking forward to others stepping up and averaging and or surpassing those numbers

This.

Thought he was good 1st qtr against Tigers. He went missing for thr rest of the game but I'm willing to put that down to am aberration considering his numbers last year.

He almost averaged 20 touches as a 2nd year player as a mid.

I'm fairly certain if we played him as a mid he would be averaging around 25 now. Yes he's small and would get pushed off if it a bit, but we have some monsters in Cripps and Kennedy and even Hewett to go in and get it.

Would like to see him spend more time in the midfield. Would certainly make us more unpredictable

 

[Coona Blues]

Surely it would be preferable for them to show that they deserve their slot either than have them be gifted, we're not i
Playing Hollands and Cowan last week indicates that Voss is prepared to give youngsters a go who show that they have earned it.

Surely it would be preferable for them to show that they deserve their slot either than have them be gifted, we're not in rebuild mode any more.

Playing Hollands and Cowan last week indicates that Voss is prepared to give youngsters a go who show that they have earned it.

My takeaway from the immediate selection of Dutchy and Moo is twofold.

The obvious is our coaches are impressed and have faith in them. The second is that they are of the belief we must add layers and skills to be a genuine premiership threat.

I remain bullish that we will at very least play finals. Ideally we need a couple of more dynamic additions to the list. I still believe with some injury luck, a couple of players moving from potential to consistent output, and some improved deployment of resources we are not out of flag contention.

It is too early to be ultra critical of Vossy and co., but I do feel he is too intent of deploying blokes as blunt instruments at the coalface. Kennedy is a very creative POD forward who can play a hybrid role. The addition of Doc to the midfield group accommodates more rotations in the engine room, especially when Walshy returns.

I can’t help but look at the Sydney model for our group. I stopped putting their midfielders in my fantasy teams years ago, as they were prone to rotate player roles (and give a wide range of scores).McVeigh was the killer, a couple of huge midfield games then a week or two in defence. I fear for George Hewett, bloke has a dodgy back and will not last if forced to do the heavy lifting week in week out. George is an excellent defender and would benefit from a short “holiday” from time to time.

 

[Jatz]

Looks like Fisher is now well and truly embedded as a whipping boy

This on the back of last year, his best year, where he averaged 10th most disposals, number 1 for that forward/mid role ( not a fulltime mid or defender)

7th for score involvements, 9th for inside 50s, 8th for pressure, 6th for goals

1 of 3 players that could stay on the park all year

Looking forward to others stepping up and averaging and or surpassing those numbers

I've probably missed it but did anyone figure out why he didn't have a single statistic in the second half? Was he playing injured?

 

[Arr0w]

I've probably missed it but did anyone figure out why he didn't have a single statistic in the second half? Was he playing injured?

Not idea, but a couple of others forward of centre had quiet 2nd halves

 

[Jatz]

Not idea, but a couple of others forward of centre had quiet 2nd halves

There's quiet second halves but then there's nothing.

Not a single disposal, not a single tackle. He still played 80 out of 120 mins.

I don't recall a player ever not having a single 'anything' in a half of football for some time.

We won't win games when we have players having absolutely zero impact in that length of game time.

 

[Arr0w]

There's quiet second halves but then there's nothing.

Not a single disposal, not a single tackle. He still played 80 out of 120 mins.

I don't recall a player ever not having a single 'anything' in a half of football for some time.

We won't win games when we have players having absolutely zero impact in that length of game time.

Absolutely, it's unacceptable, but you back players in to improve, if they don't, then you make a change

 

[Crippa#9]

I’ll just leave this here.

LDU is touted as one of the best clearance players in the AFL.

2017 draft pick 3

Paddy Dow.

Pick 4……..Yep.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

yep. not good.
That said, have we developed Paddy as good as we could have?

You win some, lose some when it comes to the draft.
Remember, our 2015 draft we got Harry & Charlie for picks 10 & 12 when other clubs drafted the likes of Key position players Sam Weideman, Josh Schache & Aaron Francis ahead of those boys.

Carlton's National Draft haul (the last 10 years):
2012: Troy Menzel (11), Tom Temay (35), Nick Graham (54)
2013: Patrick Cripps (13), Cameron Giles (39), Nick Holman (51)
2014: Blaine Boekhorst (19), Dillion Viojo-Rainbow (28), Clem Smith (60)
2015: Jacob Weitering (1), Harry McKay (10), Charlie Curnow (12), David Cuningham (23), Jack Silvagni (53)
2016: Sam Petrevski-Seton (6), Zac Fisher (27), Harrison Macreadie (47), Cameron Polson (59), Tom Williamson (61)
2017: Paddy Dow (3), Lochie O'Brien (10), Tom DeKoning (30), Angus Schumacher (70)
2018: Sam Walsh (1), Liam Stocker (19), Ben Silvagni (70)
2019: Brodie Kemp (17), Sam Philp (20), Sam Ramsay (47)
2020: Corey Durdin (37), Jack Carrol (41) - Both TBD
2021: Jesse Motlop (27)

Happy to put Motlop in green - I think we've seen enough from a 2nd year player to suggest he has 100+ games in him. Durdin & O'Brien close to being green but need to see a big year from both.

Thank god for 2015!

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Think you have cherry picked some of the best HF/mids in the competition to make a case

But 2 questions.

Who at Carlton is capable of playing that role and or without negatively impacting their current role

Which of his opponents last year, created this so called damage, that severely hurt our prospects

I picked out some of the best HF/mids in the comp because that is the role he has been allowed to play by Voss and the match committee as the high half forward who pushes up the ground and is generally unaccountable to his direct opponent, the problem with fisher is he is not as capable as these players at playing that role.

As for who at Carlton is capable of that role we don’t have one yet because we’ve neglected this type of player at the draft, personally I would start playing Motlop in that role now even though he’s not ready fitness wise yet but he is the best option we have because of his skill level. The players I mentioned in the previous post all have a couple of things in common first they have a burst of speed and second they are risk takers and for some reason come draft time we seem to always take the safer option rather than this type of player.

Just a few examples from last year of fishers opponents dominating and controlling the game look at the Pies game last round the Adelaide game and the St.Kilda game you will see fisher regularly getting sucked up the ground chasing kicks his opponents holding their positions at halfback creating an outnumber and completely controlling the game from there, think back to the influence daicos, Smith and Sinclair had on those games largely because fisher getting sucked up into the play allowing them to outnumber us down back then use their best running halfbacks on the way out to cause us the maximum damage.

Another example I will give you is the tigers game fishers main matchups for the game were vlaustin and broad they allowed fisher to push right up the ground where he had basically no effect then every time we won possession in the tigers backline we look up to an outnumber because vlaustin and broad are already waiting supporting grimes and balta on our two big boys, this is the major reason why our transition was so poor on the night and why the tigers largely dominated inside 50s and played the game in their half of the ground.

 

[HarryFlashman]

This.

Thought he was good 1st qtr against Tigers. He went missing for thr rest of the game but I'm willing to put that down to am aberration considering his numbers last year.

He almost averaged 20 touches as a 2nd year player as a mid.

I'm fairly certain if we played him as a mid he would be averaging around 25 now. Yes he's small and would get pushed off if it a bit, but we have some monsters in Cripps and Kennedy and even Hewett to go in and get it.

Would like to see him spend more time in the midfield. Would certainly make us more unpredictable

His clearance work is non existent, hands aren’t great on both sides, defensive capability is lacking & his kicking being so one sided is liability when there’s heat on.
Did not look good at all when given more opportunity late last season.

 

[Arr0w]

I picked out some of the best HF/mids in the comp because that is the role he has been allowed to play by Voss and the match committee as the high half forward who pushes up the ground and is generally unaccountable to his direct opponent, the problem with fisher is he is not as capable as these players at playing that role.

As for who at Carlton is capable of that role we don’t have one yet because we’ve neglected this type of player at the draft, personally I would start playing Motlop in that role now even though he’s not ready fitness wise yet but he is the best option we have because of his skill level. The players I mentioned in the previous post all have a couple of things in common first they have a burst of speed and second they are risk takers and for some reason come draft time we seem to always take the safer option rather than this type of player.

Just a few examples from last year of fishers opponents dominating and controlling the game look at the Pies game last round the Adelaide game and the St.Kilda game you will see fisher regularly getting sucked up the ground chasing kicks his opponents holding their positions at halfback creating an outnumber and completely controlling the game from there, think back to the influence daicos, Smith and Sinclair had on those games largely because fisher getting sucked up into the play allowing them to outnumber us down back then use their best running halfbacks on the way out to cause us the maximum damage.

Another example I will give you is the tigers game fishers main matchups for the game were vlaustin and broad they allowed fisher to push right up the ground where he had basically no effect then every time we won possession in the tigers backline we look up to an outnumber because vlaustin and broad are already waiting supporting grimes and balta on our two big boys, this is the major reason why our transition was so poor on the night and why the tigers largely dominated inside 50s and played the game in their half of the ground.

Okay, so you haven't been able to drill down and lock in his direct opponent who dominated a game while playing on Fisher, yet offered up 2 players in the Tigers game that played well.

So who was the other forward, as both Vlastuin and Broad would have an opponent each

Perhaps Rioli, who was the most dominant HB, should have been marked a little closer by Owies?

Mots could play that role, but he is already in the side as, a forward

Question still remains, who replaces Fisher in the side, without negatively impacting another area