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Review 2023 National Draft Review Thread II [McKercher, Z.Duursma, Goad, W.Dawson, Hardeman, Maley]
- Thread starter giantroo
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Ha.
It's not specific to Curtin. I just really don't want us to walk away from the top-end of this draft with another two midfielders. That's not how you build a premiership list.
Take at LEAST one of Curtin or Watson, and I can live with it.
It’s pretty simple. We have the opportunity like last year to take two of the best kids in the country. We should be taking who we think is the best available, not taking those who better fit our mix.
Couple things IMO - If we take Curtin at 2 or 3 it won’t be because we seen him purely as a KPD, it’ll be his potential to become a monster mid. Mckercher and Duursma are widely regarded as the best available after Reid. Duursma isn’t a pure mid. Mckercher is a pure mid but has flexibility and has attributes our other mids don’t.
Reality is, this (hopefully) will be the last opportunity we have to bring in two kids of this real high end quality into the football club. Not taking the very best available based on our talent order would be a mistake.
If a trade for Reid doesn’t occur, we could have 10 & 14. Picks that I’d be much more comfortable using on a needs basis.
Great. We’ll have two fat campaigners struggling to get fit by round 5.
Kidding. Kidding
If we have any sense, we at least trial Comben as a backman to try and keep him healthy. But I'd say that and the continued influx of medium forward types are independent events. Best talent available etc. etc
If we do draft Duursma, he better be ****ing good. A list littered with gaps and we keep going after the same type of player. What good are eight talented mid/fwd hybrids when your best non-key lockdown defender is Luke McDonald? Sick to ****ing death of it
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We should be taking the best available that will fit our mix not just the best available?
Don't be sucked into this Curtin can be a potential monster mid like a Bontempelli, there's only one Bont and unfortunately Curtin isn't that nor is Duursma... Curtin is a KPD that can be swung forward, that's his bread and butter and one that we actual need (a KPD)...like saying Watto could an in and under mid because he's played a few games in there.
As for McKercher, what is his flexibility and other attributes that our other mids don't have? And who does he actually displace in the current midfield?
Yeah im also perplexed at this selection. Sure nothing is set in stone yet but Twomey isnt often wrong when it comes to the top 10 of these drafts and he has zeroed in on this more so lately. I wouldnt mind the pick if they manufacture a way to get O'Sullivan in that 7-10 range he will go in. I think the kid will be something special and is another future leader we desperately need at this club.
Ura
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I think someone will need to do welfare checks on other boards if North trade up to 1 for anything short of complete capitulation.
Jeremy Cameron was recently traded for pick 13, 15 and 20….
Jeremy Cameron was recently traded for pick 13, 15 and 20….
McKercher will be able to play wing & hbf, as well as in the middle. He has speed and running ability that most of our other centre square mids don't.
If 2022 was an open draft then Ashcroft would be the generational talent and the pre-draft gap between him and pick 2 would be bigger than between Reid and pick 2 this year. And Ashcroft lived up to the hype.
Even with that, if we had traded from pick 1 down for 2 (Sheezel), pick 17 or 18 (Michallaney or Weddle) and 26 (Brayden George) then I don't think that we would be regretting it right now.
Thats how I see this draft playing out. If we have Reid then we'll be happy but if we keep McKercher, 15 and 19 then we'll be very happy, also.
Even with that, if we had traded from pick 1 down for 2 (Sheezel), pick 17 or 18 (Michallaney or Weddle) and 26 (Brayden George) then I don't think that we would be regretting it right now.
Thats how I see this draft playing out. If we have Reid then we'll be happy but if we keep McKercher, 15 and 19 then we'll be very happy, also.
You should know better than most that Collard is the number 1 go home risk in the draft.
Pretty sure that’s widely known in recruiting circles.
- Apr 17, 2007
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Hope so.
Curtin is a slider.
Weagles will pick Mckercher at 2 if we take HR at 1.
I'd be surprised if Curtin goes in the top 5 or 6.
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Because taking a tall at 2 or 3 has proven in the past to be catastrophic for many clubs.
We are in no position to burn prized picks on talls that have a less than 50% chance of being half decent in 3 or 4 years.
Talls can be traded in at the right time.
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Shermanator
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Yep he’ll play the Daicos/Sheez role for us next year.
A silky, speedy, ball winning left footer, controlling the ball from the back half to the midfield (and further).
Gives us flexibility with Sheez going forward or midfield too.
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It was literally the first thing I listed?
The_General#1
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8.157 is not elite even less impressive for his size.
AFL draft 2023: Young gun Lance Collard’s rapid rise sparks push for rule overhaul
Western Australian young gun Lance Collard’s rapid rise through the AFL draft pecking order is set to trigger a fresh debate on rules that “need to change”.
Mark Duffield
4 min read
October 10, 2023 - 7:14PM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
CODE Sports
Lance Collard after completing the 2km time trial at the 2023 AFL National Draft Combine. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Subiaco’s Lance Collard’s rapid rise through the draft pecking order
is set to trigger a fresh debate on AFL Next Generation Academy rules and a fresh push from non-Victorian clubs for the rules to be relaxed.
Collard tested brilliantly at the National Draft Combine to top off a spectacular finish to his WAFL Colts campaign and is now considered a possible first round pick at the draft.
He will almost certainly be taken before wooden spooner West Coast, the club whose Next Generation Academy he had been a part of, have a chance to match any bid for him.
Under current rules, clubs can only match a bid for an NGA prospect taken outside of pick 40.
The rules stand in contrast to father-son rules and Northern Academy rules with Gold Coast this year gathering first round draft picks in a trade with the Western Bulldogs to match bids for their highly touted prospects – forward Jed Walter, ruckman Ethan Read and midfielder Jake Rogers, with bids for all three expected to come inside the first round of the draft.
Two years ago, Fremantle were unable to pick South Fremantle NGA prospect Jesse Motlop when Carlton took him well inside the threshold at pick 27 overall.
Motlop, still a teenager now, has already played 33 games for the Blues including 21 of their 26 this year plus all three of their finals.
Lance Collard’s situation has created a push for draft rule changes. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Earlier in the year, the lightning quick Collard was viewed as a player who would fall somewhere between the middle of the second and third rounds, putting him right on the cusp of where the Eagles might have access to him.
But he kicked 32 goals in 11 games for the Subiaco Colts, rattling home with brilliant performances in finals against West Perth and East Fremantle when he kicked five goals in both games.
He then tested fourth fastest in the 20 metre sprint at the draft combine with a time of 2.923 seconds and won the agility run with a time of 8.157 seconds.
The traits exhibited are considered critical tools for an AFL small forward to have in their kit bag. And quality small forwards who can kick goals are becoming increasingly fashionable at AFL level with Collingwood’s Bobby Hill winning this year’s Norm Smith Medal.
Other Magpies Beau McCreery and Jamie Elliott also played key roles in Collingwood’s premiership push while runners up Brisbane had explosive pair Zac Bailey and Charlie Cameron at their disposal.
One AFL club recruiter on Tuesday said he would now view Collard as a first round and potential top 10 talent.
Locally talent managers have him behind only Claremont’s Daniel Curtin and alongside fellow Subiaco product Koltyn Tholstrup purely for talent.
Curtin is considered a certain top 10 pick while Tholstrup is expected to be taken in the top 25.
“He is certainly in our top couple in terms of talent,” state talent manager Adam Jones said of Collard. “The stuff that he can do is as good as any.”
“From a pure football traits perspective – speed and skill – that is a pretty fair statement.”
Lance Collard is in high demand in the AFL draft. Picture: Sarah Reed/AFL Photos via Getty Images
The question mark, Jones said, would be whether Collard could learn to adapt to the extra heat and attention he will cop at AFL level.
He had been prone to reacting to niggle and close checking but had shown signs he was improving that side of his game towards the end of the season.
“It is just that on field resilience and emotional stability. Once he gets a bit older you would expect him to be a lot better in that area.
From an off field perspective we haven’t had any dramas with him. It was bloody good to see him test well at the weekend,” Jones said.
The inequities between draft conditions for different AFL draft criteria like the Northern Academies and father-son picks were raised by Port Adelaide’s head of football Chris Davies on Trade Radio this week.
In South Australia, sons of SANFL players only qualify for father-son selections by the SA clubs if their fathers played 200 games for their SANFL clubs as opposed to 100 games for VFL/AFL father-son prospects.
Father-sons Josh and Nick Daicos finished first and equal second respectively in the Collingwood premiership team’s best and fairest while a third father-son Darcy Moore captained the team. All three were All-Australian this year.
“The AFL have got some decisions to make with regard to what they want the draft to actually look like, whether it be issues about the northern academies, father-son situation,” Davies said.
“To us, we still can’t believe it’s 100 games in the VFL and 200 games in the SANFL.
“I think it should (change). The AFL have got some real decisions to make right now.
“This year and the next few are going to be highly compromised.”
Lance Collard during the 2023 AFL National Draft Combine. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Lance Collard was impressive at the 2023 AFL National Draft Combine. Picture: Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Jones said there was clear inconsistency in the way different draft categories were treated.
“The fact that the North East seaboard clubs get full access to their academy players I feel there should be a little bit more lenience potentially (for NGA picks). Potentially a top 20 threshold which gives the clubs the incentive to put development into these kids. It is a good carrot for our young Indigenous kids and multicultural boys to work towards,” he said.
“Where it manifests with us is when we have got rural Indigenous kids – you need to relocate them and the AFL clubs are a great resource in terms of getting help with their work and things like that. It really is beneficial to make it as attractive to our local AFL clubs as you can.”
West Coast CEO Trevor Nisbett said the club’s list manager Rohan O’Brien had raised the issue several times with AFL officials.
“I think Rohan has been talking to the AFL on a consistent basis on the NGA rules as compared to Northern states rules, all the other rules that go along with this draft,” he said.
“They (Northern clubs) can match bids at any time. They don’t have to be NGA players – just academy players. Outside 40 is just extraordinary.”
“We have been liaising with the league and we have written to them a number of times to see whether there is an opportunity to change the rules. It needs to be changed. There is such a disparity between the rules now, between the categories – it needs to change.”
He said non-Victorian clubs had always been at a disadvantage to Victorian clubs when it came to father-son picks because of their shorter histories.
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Sub 8 is elite.
The agility test like the 20m test can vary wildly from year to year.
The setup, whilst good, is hardly like the testing lab of the AIS.
It's also why some of the results vary widly between the NAB league testing and the combine.
Watson ran a 8.1 second agility in NAB League testing. He's probably the most agile prospect I've ever seen in person by the eye test. He turns players around for fun and can turn on a dime. He's also extremely quick over 10-15m.
He's easily more agile than Stephen Hill was and he held the record for a long time at 7.77.
You really just have to compare them to the other players testing under the same conditions.
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Sam "Muppet" McClure has said west coast will not take Reid at number 1
If best available fits our mix, then great. My point is I don’t see our recruiters deviating from best available to suit our mix. This draft is just too important.
List bosses/recruiters have spoken about the appeals of Curtin being his flexibility and ability to play mid. Whether people believe he makes it in that role is another story.
Mckerchers running, burst endurance, line breaking and left boot are attributes I think our existing mix is lacking. In terms of displacement, I think everyone’s spot is competitive and up for grabs considering our win/loss rate the last few years.
What I’m suggesting is hardly groundbreaking. Stick to our talent order at the pointy end as we did last year, address needs from our third pick onwards, and we will be right.
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