Training 2023 pre-season

[Dubai Quacker]

My boss is a Roos fan.

Poor sod thinks they’re going to improve this year.

I wanted to say “you’re dreamin’” …. but to do so would be a career limiting move.

 

[RilesMacca]

Is Gould ever likely to play? Feels like he is either too tall, too slow, not tall enough, not fast enough. Others are creeping up and overtaking him. Feels like he will fall through the cracks.

I feel he will. The thing to remember is the McCartin brothers combined missed 1 game and rampe played every game, a main reason why he hasn't got his chance yet because of our clean bill of health. So when 1 or two might go down, he should be battling it out with Francis for the spot to fill in. Crows might have a crack to pick him up if he doesn't play a game for us this year. Especially with McAsey out the door.

 

[caesar88]

12 months ago you were promoting the idea of trading him. Now your suggesting he has/will overtake Mills as our most important player.
What a difference 12 months can make!

I reckon its widely accepted that Parker, Mills, Rowbum, Warner are our best inside mids, at the moment..
I also reckon its widely accepted that we need to improve our clearance and contested possession game..
I aslo reckon its widely accepted that JPK (who held/holds the AFL record for these stats) is being missed.

So.. IMO Warner, Rowbum and Mills' stats for possessions, clearance & tackles will all improve over the next 2-3 years, just like they have been over the previous 2 seasons. (Mills' stats may be largely determined by how Horse uses him)
So theres an improvement to those key stats.
IMO, the wingers rotating through stoppages also have huge scope to contribute to the teams output in these key stats, ie. Stephens, Gulden, JMac, Campbell + others.. All of whom are young and still developing their game and their physical bodies.. We saw at the end of last year Stephens earn and hold his spot on the wing. We drafted him as an inside/outside mid, and hes returned to start his 4th year bulk up without compromising his elite endurance capacity. Gulden / Campbell are only coming into their 3rd season!

Other rotations through stoppages (not just centre bounces) include Paps and Heeney. Horse seems to do this because of what these two All-Australians can contribute, but also to inject these two All-Australians into the game.

I cant see any reason why a player like Sheldrick who is only coming into his 2nd season doesn't get an opportunity (and a good one) to show what he can do. I reckon theres a very good chance he plays in the forward line and rotes through stoppages.

To quote Dalrymple.. 'You cant have too many mids'

I guess I'm just not necessarily part of the "widely accepted" belief that we need to improve our clearance and contested possession game, so as I said yesterday, the urgency to have a player like Sheldrick in the side just isn't there for me at present. Mainly because I think we already have improved our midfield - through one player in particular - and one bad day at the office has seemingly overshadowed that progress we made.

DQ and Horace were lamenting our stoppage clearance ability, but in the last ten games of the season, we were ranked 3rd in the comp for stoppage clearances (we also won the stoppage clearance count in 8 of these 10 games, including the GF, where it supposedly cost us.)

Every man and his dog have been lamenting our contested possession game, but in the last ten games of the season, we were ranked 2nd in the comp for contested possessions (behind only the eventual premiers Geelong - no shame in that.)

Horace then singles out Rowbottom as the one not offering enough in stoppages, but in the last ten games of the season, he averaged 4.7 stoppage clearances, way ahead of Parker (4.1), Mills and Warner (2.6 each.)

His 4.7 stoppage clearances that he got as an 82kg 21 year old with less than 70 games experience was higher than what JPK averaged (4.5) in the three consecutive years he made the All Australian squad between 2015 and 2017, so again, do we miss him, or have we found his potential heir?

Horace also makes note that Sheldrick's first-touch hard ball gets are a point of difference over Rowbottom, but in the last ten games of the season - when we were 2nd in contested possessions - Rowbottom had the biggest increase in his contested possessions of any Swan (+3.2.)

But those are just stats. I didn't need stats to tell me that our midfield was besting quality midfield outfits like that of Fremantle, the Bulldogs, Melbourne and Collingwood en route to the grand final, or that Rowbottom was just about the best first-touch mid in the comp in the last few months of the season.

I'm not saying our midfield is perfect. I think it's a work-in-progress and there's things I would personally change if it were up to me. But it feels like sometimes people are just pulling made-up reasons for why it's not perfect from obscurity and trying to make them stick. It's frustrating to read over and over and I will cop that that frustration can get the better of me.

You said it best: most of our current midfield is young and should have plenty of improvement left in them. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I guess I'm just not necessarily part of the "widely accepted" belief that we need to improve our clearance and contested possession game, so as I said yesterday, the urgency to have a player like Sheldrick in the side just isn't there for me at present. Mainly because I think we already have improved our midfield - through one player in particular - and one bad day at the office has seemingly overshadowed that progress we made.

DQ and Horace were lamenting our stoppage clearance ability, but in the last ten games of the season, we were ranked 3rd in the comp for stoppage clearances (we also won the stoppage clearance count in 8 of these 10 games, including the GF, where it supposedly cost us.)

Every man and his dog have been lamenting our contested possession game, but in the last ten games of the season, we were ranked 2nd in the comp for contested possessions (behind only the eventual premiers Geelong - no shame in that.)

Horace then singles out Rowbottom as the one not offering enough in stoppages, but in the last ten games of the season, he averaged 4.7 stoppage clearances, way ahead of Parker (4.1), Mills and Warner (2.6 each.)

His 4.7 stoppage clearances that he got as an 82kg 21 year old with less than 70 games experience was higher than what JPK averaged (4.5) in the three consecutive years he made the All Australian squad between 2015 and 2017, so again, do we miss him, or have we found his potential heir?

Horace also makes note that Sheldrick's first-touch hard ball gets are a point of difference over Rowbottom, but in the last ten games of the season - when we were 2nd in contested possessions - Rowbottom had the biggest increase in his contested possessions of any Swan (+3.2.)

But those are just stats. I didn't need stats to tell me that our midfield was besting quality midfield outfits like that of Fremantle, the Bulldogs, Melbourne and Collingwood en route to the grand final, or that Rowbottom was just about the best first-touch mid in the comp in the last few months of the season.

I'm not saying our midfield is perfect. I think it's a work-in-progress and there's things I would personally change if it were up to me. But it feels like sometimes people are just pulling made-up reasons for why it's not perfect from obscurity and trying to make them stick. It's frustrating to read over and over and I will cop that that frustration can get the better of me.

You said it best: most of our current midfield is young and should have plenty of improvement left in them. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that.

I have to confess, I was surprised at the clearance stats, as my impression was that it was a weakness.

I hate my impressions being wrong. Guess the ego kicks in!

Which made me do a bit of research into 2022 numbers.

Parker is our top clearance player (Parker had 150, Rowy next at 116).

By way of comparison, Oliver had 201, Neale 191, Touk 172.

Weirdly, Geelong had nobody in the top 25 in the league (Guthrie was their highest clearance getter with 111).

Further, whilst we did indeed rank 3 for clearances, we were also ranked 3rd for “clearances against”. So we kinda broke even.

The conclusion I draw ….. I’m confused by the stats.

But I still rate Gus!

 

[rustycrate]

I guess I'm just not necessarily part of the "widely accepted" belief that we need to improve our clearance and contested possession game, so as I said yesterday, the urgency to have a player like Sheldrick in the side just isn't there for me at present. Mainly because I think we already have improved our midfield - through one player in particular - and one bad day at the office has seemingly overshadowed that progress we made.

DQ and Horace were lamenting our stoppage clearance ability, but in the last ten games of the season, we were ranked 3rd in the comp for stoppage clearances (we also won the stoppage clearance count in 8 of these 10 games, including the GF, where it supposedly cost us.)

Every man and his dog have been lamenting our contested possession game, but in the last ten games of the season, we were ranked 2nd in the comp for contested possessions (behind only the eventual premiers Geelong - no shame in that.)

Horace then singles out Rowbottom as the one not offering enough in stoppages, but in the last ten games of the season, he averaged 4.7 stoppage clearances, way ahead of Parker (4.1), Mills and Warner (2.6 each.)

His 4.7 stoppage clearances that he got as an 82kg 21 year old with less than 70 games experience was higher than what JPK averaged (4.5) in the three consecutive years he made the All Australian squad between 2015 and 2017, so again, do we miss him, or have we found his potential heir?

Horace also makes note that Sheldrick's first-touch hard ball gets are a point of difference over Rowbottom, but in the last ten games of the season - when we were 2nd in contested possessions - Rowbottom had the biggest increase in his contested possessions of any Swan (+3.2.)

But those are just stats. I didn't need stats to tell me that our midfield was besting quality midfield outfits like that of Fremantle, the Bulldogs, Melbourne and Collingwood en route to the grand final, or that Rowbottom was just about the best first-touch mid in the comp in the last few months of the season.

I'm not saying our midfield is perfect. I think it's a work-in-progress and there's things I would personally change if it were up to me. But it feels like sometimes people are just pulling made-up reasons for why it's not perfect from obscurity and trying to make them stick. It's frustrating to read over and over and I will cop that that frustration can get the better of me.

You said it best: most of our current midfield is young and should have plenty of improvement left in them. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that.

Always good to read your posts.

 

[caesar88]

I have to confess, I was surprised at the clearance stats, as my impression was that it was a weakness.

I hate my impressions being wrong. Guess the ego kicks in!

Which made me do a bit of research into 2022 numbers.

Parker is our top clearance player (Parker had 150, Rowy next at 116).

By way of comparison, Oliver had 201, Neale 191, Touk 172.

Weirdly, Geelong had nobody in the top 25 in the league (Guthrie was their highest clearance getter with 111).

Further, whilst we did indeed rank 3 for clearances, we were also ranked 3rd for “clearances against”. So we kinda broke even.

The conclusion I draw ….. I’m confused by the stats.

But I still rate Gus!

Go with your eyes DQ. They really are the most valuable judge of footy.

That said, my eyes told me that in the last few months of the season our midfield was doing well.

So if we can't agree with stats, and our eyes are all telling us different things, maybe we're all just stuffed!

As for Sheldrick, I rate him too! I think regardless of how much senior footy he plays in the near future, we can all agree he's a great asset to our list.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I have to confess, I was surprised at the clearance stats, as my impression was that it was a weakness.

I hate my impressions being wrong. Guess the ego kicks in!

Which made me do a bit of research into 2022 numbers.

Parker is our top clearance player (Parker had 150, Rowy next at 116).

By way of comparison, Oliver had 201, Neale 191, Touk 172.

Weirdly, Geelong had nobody in the top 25 in the league (Guthrie was their highest clearance getter with 111).

Further, whilst we did indeed rank 3 for clearances, we were also ranked 3rd for “clearances against”. So we kinda broke even.

The conclusion I draw ….. I’m confused by the stats.

But I still rate Gus!

Clearance stats are a dubious beast. A bit like hit outs. There's a chain of events that start with the ball up or throw in and end with the ball at least 50m away or locked up and repeated. Win the 50m away chains and you're in business. Getting the ball out of the scrum only counts if you get it forward from there. Richmond won three premierships by often getting the ball away from the back of the scrum.
Your eyes don't necessarily deceive you because the most meaningful stat isn't counted.

 

[SeanM]

On Friday morning got there around 9.30. The players were doing running, mostly shuttle runs and sprints of the length of the oval.

Again Hickey, Franklin and Reid were doing stuff on the side and then left for somewhere else. There were a few players that did not do the running. And there were guys like Hall Kahan and Rankin who ended up doing most of the drills during the session but instead did lots of running around the oval later in the morning.

- Drills
They then split up into their positional groups do a few drills. I think all groups did a drill where attacking players would try to handball back and forth through 3 opposing players in a narrow corridor. Interestingly Heeney seemed to be training with the mids today. He may float between groups.

• Mids then did a drill where 8 attackers players would try to keep possession with short kicks against 7 opposing players.
• Forwards were practicing a series of short kicks to players making leads in the attacking 50m.
• Defenders were practicing working the ball out of the defensive 50 kick in with short kicks.

- 1 vs 1 ground ball contest
A coach would roll a ground ball and two players would compete over it. Either evade, tackle or compete for the possession of it. They let the contest run for a while so you could see how it could get tiring.

- Handball drill in small circle.
7 attackers using handballs trying to keep possession in a small circle against 3 defending players. Watching the group in front of me. I could hear Cox telling the defending players to work together to shut down the attackers. And telling the attacking ones to communicate more to take advantage of their numbers.

- Kicking drill
Players set up along the 4 corners of a big square. Then kick and run to the adjacent corner.

-Handball drill
In a medium sized circle, 7 attackers try to keep possession against 5 defenders using handballs. They had to try to reach a certain number of consecutive handball possessions before it got turned over.

-12 vs 12 round robin
Split into 3 teams and played brief games of 12 vs 12 on a smaller marked out oval. Less intensity than Wednesday. Each side would try to move the ball upfield with short passes. It is a bit congested because it is a smaller oval and everyone is marked up. So it slower ball movement and at a certain point players will have to kick long.

-15 vs 12 on full oval
Did 30 minutes of 15 vs 12 on the full oval. Attacking team would try to move the ball from their goal upfield. If the defensive team managed to turn it over, they could have possession for a while before the drill got reset. It was not that physical. Though if there was a loose ball contest, the coaches would let it run for a little bit. It was a better spectacle and quicker ball movement because of the larger oval and the attacking team having a spare man on each line. Also allowed the small forwards like Konstanty more space down the wide channels and opportunity to get involved.

- More running
Some players had to run as a group around the oval. Others were paired up where one player would have to tag the other as he randomly ran within the oval.
Cox did some work with the rucks. Combination of tap work, contested marking, ground balls and skill work. He made them run to different spots of the oval. to operate under fatigue This time Amartey joined in with the rucks though he usually trains with the forwards.

- End of session
Players did their own thing, worked in small groups or had the opportunity to work with a coach individually. Stephens and Mitchell were kicking short passes to each other, Rowbottom, Parker, Warner and Mcinerney were practicing picking up rolling ground balls under pressure. McCartin and Edwards were doing 1 vs 1 contested marking against each other. A lot of players having shots at goal.

I think one of the draftees Mitchell might have had his family watching the training session. It seemed like he was introducing them to some of the other players. Maybe they drove up from Victoria for the weekend.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Thanks SeanM . You provide us with terrific pictures.

 

[Bonz]

My boss is a Roos fan.

Poor sod thinks they’re going to improve this year.

I wanted to say “you’re dreamin’” …. but to do so would be a career limiting move.

Well they cannot be worse and likely Hawthorn finish below them.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

On Friday morning got there around 9.30. The players were doing running, mostly shuttle runs and sprints of the length of the oval.

Again Hickey, Franklin and Reid were doing stuff on the side and then left for somewhere else. There were a few players that did not do the running. And there were guys like Hall Kahan and Rankin who ended up doing most of the drills during the session but instead did lots of running around the oval later in the morning.

- Drills
They then split up into their positional groups do a few drills. I think all groups did a drill where attacking players would try to handball back and forth through 3 opposing players in a narrow corridor. Interestingly Heeney seemed to be training with the mids today. He may float between groups.

• Mids then did a drill where 8 attackers players would try to keep possession with short kicks against 7 opposing players.
• Forwards were practicing a series of short kicks to players making leads in the attacking 50m.
• Defenders were practicing working the ball out of the defensive 50 kick in with short kicks.

- 1 vs 1 ground ball contest
A coach would roll a ground ball and two players would compete over it. Either evade, tackle or compete for the possession of it. They let the contest run for a while so you could see how it could get tiring.

- Handball drill in small circle.
7 attackers using handballs trying to keep possession in a small circle against 3 defending players. Watching the group in front of me. I could hear Cox telling the defending players to work together to shut down the attackers. And telling the attacking ones to communicate more to take advantage of their numbers.

- Kicking drill
Players set up along the 4 corners of a big square. Then kick and run to the adjacent corner.

-Handball drill
In a medium sized circle, 7 attackers try to keep possession against 5 defenders using handballs. They had to try to reach a certain number of consecutive handball possessions before it got turned over.

-12 vs 12 round robin
Split into 3 teams and played brief games of 12 vs 12 on a smaller marked out oval. Less intensity than Wednesday. Each side would try to move the ball upfield with short passes. It is a bit congested because it is a smaller oval and everyone is marked up. So it slower ball movement and at a certain point players will have to kick long.

-15 vs 12 on full oval
Did 30 minutes of 15 vs 12 on the full oval. Attacking team would try to move the ball from their goal upfield. If the defensive team managed to turn it over, they could have possession for a while before the drill got reset. It was not that physical. Though if there was a loose ball contest, the coaches would let it run for a little bit. It was a better spectacle and quicker ball movement because of the larger oval and the attacking team having a spare man on each line. Also allowed the small forwards like Konstanty more space down the wide channels and opportunity to get involved.

- More running
Some players had to run as a group around the oval. Others were paired up where one player would have to tag the other as he randomly ran within the oval.
Cox did some work with the rucks. Combination of tap work, contested marking, ground balls and skill work. He made them run to different spots of the oval. to operate under fatigue This time Amartey joined in with the rucks though he usually trains with the forwards.

- End of session
Players did their own thing, worked in small groups or had the opportunity to work with a coach individually. Stephens and Mitchell were kicking short passes to each other, Rowbottom, Parker, Warner and Mcinerney were practicing picking up rolling ground balls under pressure. McCartin and Edwards were doing 1 vs 1 contested marking against each other. A lot of players having shots at goal.

I think one of the draftees Mitchell might have had his family watching the training session. It seemed like he was introducing them to some of the other players. Maybe they drove up from Victoria for the weekend.

You are a ****in godsend my dude.

 

[hairy biker]

On Friday morning got there around 9.30. The players were doing running, mostly shuttle runs and sprints of the length of the oval.

Again Hickey, Franklin and Reid were doing stuff on the side and then left for somewhere else.
Cox did some work with the rucks. Combination of tap work, contested marking, ground balls and skill work. He made them run to different spots of the oval. to operate under fatigue This time Amartey joined in with the rucks though he usually trains with the forwards.

Thanks again SeanM, top stuff.

Not only are your posts comprehensive, but you've now moved into predictive territory.

I was actually going to ask you had they been doing much sprint/shuttle work.

Any observations on Ladhams?
Wth Hickey seemingly on a modified program, how has Ladhams been doing in the ruck contests (assuming that he has been in that group).

 

[SeanM]

They usually do fitness stuff at the start of the session. Presumably it also acts as a warmup. The fitness guy takes control and it can involve various exercises for agility, speed, balance and power etc.

I have not been there at the start of the session. But I think they were doing sprints and shuttle runs earlier in the week as well. That seems more relevant to AFL than running around the oval continuously. But I have also seen them mix it up where they do running during the middle of the session to tire out the players. And then get them to perform the next team drills under fatigue.

I can't really judge Ladham's ruck work. Earlier in the week when they were practicing taps in 2 groups. McAndrew and Owens were paired up. And Ladhams was unopposed in his group because there was no other ruck. On Friday he was paired up with Amartey and they were doing a mixture of things. My only observation is that his movement and skills look ok for a big guy.

 

[rustycrate]

This is the sort of thing I'm aiming for with the list pictorial.


Lots of changes

1. I've added availability which I will source from the Swans injury list published weekly. This will enable me to show the reason for a player's non availability and the number of weeks.
2. I've added the 23rd player
3. I have the top 8 and Hawthorn's impact on our picks next year. Hopefully they will tank and add greatly to our draft hand this year.
4. The Sydney Home and Away schedule and results (and the duplicate games).
5. Still a work in progress but any constructive criticism is welcome.

I think it is a true one glance picture of the Swan's from any week from multiple points of interest.

 

[Kiama Chris]

This is the sort of thing I'm aiming for with the list pictorial.
View attachment 1587487

Lots of changes

1. I've added availability which I will source from the Swans injury list published weekly. This will enable me to show the reason for a player's non availability and the number of weeks.
2. I've added the 23rd player
3. I have the top 8 and Hawthorn's impact on our picks next year. Hopefully they will tank and add greatly to our draft hand this year.
4. The Sydney Home and Away schedule and results (and the duplicate games).
5. Still a work in progress but any constructive criticism is welcome.

I think it is a true one glance picture of the Swan's from any week from multiple points of interest.

Fantastic!
I assume the line through means injured?

 

[rustycrate]

Fantastic!
I assume the line through means injured?

Yep or unavailable. And I will publish this after teams are announced each week.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Yep or unavailable. And I will publish this after teams are announced each week.

Wait so are Melican, Clarke, Wicks, McAndrew, and Roberts all hurt or is this just an example?

 

[rustycrate]

Wait so are Melican, Clarke, Wicks, McAndrew, and Roberts all hurt or is this just an example?

I'm not Nostradamus. Is that a clue?

 

[rustycrate]

Wait so are Melican, Clarke, Wicks, McAndrew, and Roberts all hurt or is this just an example?

BTW
Blue means suspended, Red Injured, Green retired etc
Look at the availability codes at the bottom.

 

[hairy biker]

This is the sort of thing I'm aiming for with the list pictorial.

Lots of changes

1. I've added availability which I will source from the Swans injury list published weekly. This will enable me to show the reason for a player's non availability and the number of weeks.
2. I've added the 23rd player
3. I have the top 8 and Hawthorn's impact on our picks next year. Hopefully they will tank and add greatly to our draft hand this year.
4. The Sydney Home and Away schedule and results (and the duplicate games).
5. Still a work in progress but any constructive criticism is welcome.

I think it is a true one glance picture of the Swan's from any week from multiple points of interest.

Top stuff rustycrate

When its finished and you are happy with the final design deserves its own thread IMO.
Ready reference and then it doesn't get lost in a match preview thread (even with a threadmarker).

 

[rustycrate]

Top stuff rustycrate

When its finished and you are happy with the final design deserves its own thread IMO.
Ready reference and then it doesn't get lost in a match preview thread (even with a threadmarker).

OK. I have never started my own thread. Sounds like a good idea though. It can get lost in the thread I agree. At least then you can look at last weeks etc and the comments around it. Good idea.

 

[Kiama Chris]

OK. I have never started my own thread. Sounds like a good idea though. It can get lost in the thread I agree. At least then you can look at last weeks etc and the comments around it. Good idea.

Maybe one of the Mods can start a thread for you?

 

[hairy biker]

OK. I have never started my own thread. Sounds like a good idea though. It can get lost in the thread I agree. At least then you can look at last weeks etc and the comments around it. Good idea.

It's easily done rusty (geez if bedford can do it anyone can).

Go to the top of the page, just above 'Sydney Swans Board Rules.....' and that's where you enter the Thread Title and prefix (List Mgmt).
(Prefix options will appear when you click the down arrow next to the 'No prefix' button).
Then just enter the thread title and post as normal in the message box and when satisfied hit the 'Post thread' option (bottom right of the message box).


I do expect a catchy title though.

 

[caesar88]

rustycrate The List™ can't become a legally-recognised institution until it has its own thread.

 

[bedford]

Hairy help me , how'd i get on here ?