Training 2023 Preseason + training discussion

[Stinky Lomax]

Stubbs scored 23 goals from 12 games at WAFL level last season.

Personally I’d back our best 22 smalls to match those numbers easily if we dropped them back to WAFL level. Only thing that would stop them would be increased midfield minutes at that level.

Not trying to write off Stubbs or anything but I think those that think he’s best 22 shouldn’t be too disappointed if it doesn’t end up that way.

Personally I think if it’s close between Stubbs and L.Serong I’d go with L.Serong. There’s seven years difference between the two. Until yesterday it sounded like quite a close contest.

I don’t know anything about Serong & Stubbs, but you’d think if you put Stubbs in a professional full time environment there’s a good chance he’d kick a few more goals than that at WAFL level. Probably not much fun playing forward at Perth either.

Additionally as a small forward at 186cm & 88kg he offers something different to our current list of small forwards.

How they train, impact in the sims & needs will determine who they go with. You’d think Serong is more of a need, but if they don’t think he’s up to it or will never be up to it they’ll probably go with Stubbs.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I don’t know anything about Serong & Stubbs, but you’d think if you put Stubbs in a professional full time environment there’s a good chance he’d kick a few more goals than that at WAFL level. Probably not much fun playing forward at Perth either.

Additionally as a small forward at 186cm & 88kg he offers something different to our current list of small forwards.

How they train, impact in the sims & needs will determine who they go with. You’d think Serong is more of a need, but if they don’t think he’s up to it or will never be up to it they’ll probably go with Stubbs.

Im not even sure Serong is more of a need, our small forwards outside the 22 is basically just Emmet. Can argue about how many smalls we play but I’d argue Stubbs is more a list need then Lerong

 

[Dockeroo]

Stubbs seems to be making quite an impact so far. I’m looking forward to seeing him play in the practice games if he’s kept around. Personally I love that he’s bringing a bit of niggle to proceedings too. That’s exactly what we need.
All 44 guys don’t need to be best buds. We want to have a team of winners not a team of best mates.
Chapman is a big boy, he can come out next week against Stubbs and lay down a marker of his own for the coaches in the match sims.
Toby Greene and Jack Ginnivan and Izak Rankine and the likes won’t have any mercy on him once the season starts, that’s for sure.
Also agree with Tony Geeks about Schultz. Standing up and delivering on your side of the bargain in front of 92,000 people at the MCG, whilst most of your teammates didn’t show up, earns a hell of a lot of bonus points in my book. And I say that as someone who wasn’t always a big Schultz fan.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

Amiss has had Pearce, Ryan, Chapman and Hamling on him

1 v 4 and he still kicked goals!
Wow!
Look out Coleman Medal

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ilikepotatoes]

It's preseason - unfortunate as it may be - there's always the chance that another list spot becomes available.

There's also always the chance that neither player gets picked up too.

 

[Taylor]

I think Stubbs needs to be best twenty two to get a spot, I don't think Liam Serong does.

It's preseason - unfortunate as it may be - there's always the chance that another list spot becomes available.

That's the thought that has been bouncing around my empty head whenever deciding between the two come up, the only thing that would force a call between the two immediately is if one of them were to be offered a list spot by another side right now.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

Im not even sure Serong is more of a need, our small forwards outside the 22 is basically just Emmet. Can argue about how many smalls we play but I’d argue Stubbs is more a list need then Lerong

If Serong were 26, he’d definitely be more of a need. As exciting as it all is at the moment, if Tabs doesn’t play due to injury, we’re relying on some young talent holding down key spots in the forward line & I strongly believe Fyfes experience is the prime reason he’s playing forward. Nat’s 190cm but can play a lot taller.

Theres still other good options with our small forwards with the opportunity to rotate a mid deep as well. We still need key forwards as the ones we have are very young.

 

[Superkoops]

NOD heaps better for the 2nds. He may have been needed to work on his inside game

Having played a few match sims in my time, often it is a case of A vs B teams but the teams are a reflection of where players are at in terms of their PS program.

So Hughes playing wing for the supposed A team as compared to Henry and NOD is a reflection of him being more advanced than the other two currently. Based on last year and from opinions of posters watching I’d expect a change where NOD moves up and Hughes down.

Again I’m not in a position to comment but NOD seems to be building a little. Wasn’t there a picture of wearing a different coloured vest and something strapped over the vest on Wed??

Tabs vs Amiss is an interesting one. Sometimes experienced players like Fyfe and Tabs who are clearly building their body of work get a free pass because they need to get them working with the A team forward line because come round 1 they will be in the first team.

Wing is a position being experimented with. They are running a number of players through - Aish, NOD, Hughes, Henry, Erasmus, Colyer, Worner etc.

At the moment I’d have Aish and NOD as likely wingers but a lot of water to go under the bridge and a few other options available.

The reports on Stubbs are promising. The club have a decision to make even if it is no decision. I still feel Serong would be a good choice given the upside and what was selected in the 2022 ND and RD’s.

Stubbs an ideal mid season pick and would easily adapt to Freo’s training and playing with Peel after spending a large chunk of time with us in the pre-season.

 

[Ysaye]

Having played a few match sims in my time, often it is a case of A vs B teams but the teams are a reflection of where players are at in terms of their PS program.

So Hughes playing wing for the supposed A team as compared to Henry and NOD is a reflection of him being more advanced than the other two currently. Based on last year and from opinions of posters watching I’d expect a change where NOD moves up and Hughes down.

Again I’m not in a position to comment but NOD seems to be building a little. Wasn’t there a picture of wearing a different coloured vest and something strapped over the vest on Wed??

Tabs vs Amiss is an interesting one. Sometimes experienced players like Fyfe and Tabs who are clearly building their body of work get a free pass because they need to get them working with the A team forward line because come round 1 they will be in the first team.

Wing is a position being experimented with. They are running a number of players through - Aish, NOD, Hughes, Henry, Erasmus, Colyer, Worner etc.

At the moment I’d have Amiss and NOD as likely wingers but a lot of water to go under the bridge and a few other options available.

The reports on Stubbs are promising. The club have a decision to make even if it is no decision. I still feel Serong would be a good choice given the upside and what was selected in the 2022 ND and RD’s.

Stubbs an ideal mid season pick and would easily adapt to Freo’s training and playing with Peel after spending a large chunk of time with us in the pre-season.

hmm?

On a serious note, I don't think anything is a surprise at the moment coming out of the training reports, or that anyone is ahead or behind where I expected them to be. When it comes to actual selection time I expect experience and where they finished up as a team last year will be the two drivers to where we will start in terms of selections. I don't think that Treacy, Johnson, Erasmus, Henry, Hughes will be in the 22 at the start of the season (unless injury takes it toll soon) and these players will have to wait until form or injury catches up with others; this isn't to say that some of these players aren't banging on the door, which is where they were always going to be if they did all the right things.

 

[Demons09]

Stubbs scored 23 goals from 12 games at WAFL level last season.

Personally I’d back our best 22 smalls to match those numbers easily if we dropped them back to WAFL level. Only thing that would stop them would be increased midfield minutes at that level.

Not trying to write off Stubbs or anything but I think those that think he’s best 22 shouldn’t be too disappointed if it doesn’t end up that way.

Personally I think if it’s close between Stubbs and L.Serong I’d go with L.Serong. There’s seven years difference between the two. Until yesterday it sounded like quite a close contest.

He would double those goals at another Wafl club he was playing for Perth.

 

[Superkoops]

hmm?

On a serious note, I don't think anything is a surprise at the moment coming out of the training reports, or that anyone is ahead or behind where I expected them to be. When it comes to actual selection time I expect experience and where they finished up as a team last year will be the two drivers to where we will start in terms of selections. I don't think that Treacy, Johnson, Erasmus, Henry, Hughes will be in the 22 at the start of the season (unless injury takes it toll soon) and these players will have to wait until form or injury catches up with others; this isn't to say that some of these players aren't banging on the door, which is where they were always going to be if they did all the right things.

My bad I meant Aish. I had Amiss on my mind reading all these positive reports. Aish and NOD is what I should have typed.

 

[Superkoops]

He would double those goals at another Wafl club he was playing for Perth.

Very true. No offence to your WAFL team but they genuinely sucked. In the few decent games they played (incl. one where they beat Peel), Stubbs kicked some goals.

I wouldn’t call him a small. I see him as a medium tall at 186/187cm. He also plays taller than his height. In the game against Peel earlier in the season he played like a full forward. Leading out and taking marks out in front.

I’m easy with either being selected based on reports and Taylor has it covered above with the Stubbs needing to capable of stepping immediately into the best 22 now whereas Serong is an eye for the future. How many have Hugh Davies to step up and play round one. Serong has essentially played bugger all U18 and in the absence of exposed form Walls and the club is taking an opportunity to get first hand exposure of his talents and take the bite now with an eye on the future. It is a rookie spot we left open and I like this approach.

Stubbs impressing is very good. I can only imagine a list spot will become available for the mid season draft which has been after the first 10 games or thereabouts and he is perfect selection for that draft. But if the club sees fit to go with him now then who am I to judge.

 

[gungho]

W

I don’t know anything about Serong & Stubbs, but you’d think if you put Stubbs in a professional full time environment there’s a good chance he’d kick a few more goals than that at WAFL level. Probably not much fun playing forward at Perth either.

Additionally as a small forward at 186cm & 88kg he offers something different to our current list of small forwards.

How they train, impact in the sims & needs will determine who they go with. You’d think Serong is more of a need, but if they don’t think he’s up to it or will never be up to it they’ll probably go with Stubbs.

Im not even sure Serong is more of a need, our small forwards outside the 22 is basically just Emmet. Can argue about how many smalls we play but I’d argue Stubbs is more a list need then Lerong

If you consider that Fyfe has been training all pre-season forward, then you obviously can only pick a handfull of Freddy, Shultz, Switta, Walters, Fyfe, Corbett, Sturt and Treacy. Even predicting Banfield won't get a game, and also that Johnson and Erasmus won't be resting half forwards, it's still a heck of a lot of players for Stubbs to overcome to make best 22. Heck, I think we have more depth with small/medium forwards than any other position on the ground right now.

 

[King Huskii]

W


If you consider that Fyfe has been training all pre-season forward, then you obviously can only pick a handfull of Freddy, Shultz, Switta, Walters, Fyfe, Corbett, Sturt and Treacy. Even predicting Banfield won't get a game, and also that Johnson and Erasmus won't be resting half forwards, it's still a heck of a lot of players for Stubbs to overcome to make best 22. Heck, I think we have more depth with small/medium forwards than any other position on the ground right now.

And mid depth too

 

[MadMundy]

Just curious to see if there's any reports on how Sturt is going? Any progress with his game at all?

 

[pK75]

IMHO everyone is reading too much into these match sim positions.
Jackson isn’t going to spend an entire game in the ruck, he’ll be spending more time forward than ruck.
Fyfe won’t start round 1 in the goal square, he just needs to work on his forward craft more than his midfield craft.
NOD won’t be played as inside mid, they just want him to work on his congested game.
Johnson and Erasmus are being given extended time in the middle to stake their claim as the next best mid, should an injury occur.
JOM is being given a lot of mid time to build understanding with Brodie, Serong and Brayshaw because he will be starting there in round 1.
Frederick is being given wing time because they want to see if he can rotate through there.
It’s preseason and we’re playing 40 players, in the scratch matches we’ll get a far better understanding of who’s close to our best 22 and we’ll see a lot more versatility as players rest forward or move up the ground.

 

[theGav56]

I think Stubbs needs to be best twenty two to get a spot, I don't think Liam Serong does.



That's the thought that has been bouncing around my empty head whenever deciding between the two come up, the only thing that would force a call between the two immediately is if one of them were to be offered a list spot by another side right now.

We have Corbett a spot and he seems unlikely to be best 22. Certainly needs to be a realistic option this season though.

 

[blue shark]

Very true. No offence to your WAFL team but they genuinely sucked. In the few decent games they played (incl. one where they beat Peel), Stubbs kicked some goals.

I wouldn’t call him a small. I see him as a medium tall at 186/187cm. He also plays taller than his height. In the game against Peel earlier in the season he played like a full forward. Leading out and taking marks out in front.

I’m easy with either being selected based on reports and Taylor has it covered above with the Stubbs needing to capable of stepping immediately into the best 22 now whereas Serong is an eye for the future. How many have Hugh Davies to step up and play round one. Serong has essentially played bugger all U18 and in the absence of exposed form Walls and the club is taking an opportunity to get first hand exposure of his talents and take the bite now with an eye on the future. It is a rookie spot we left open and I like this approach.

Stubbs impressing is very good. I can only imagine a list spot will become available for the mid season draft which has been after the first 10 games or thereabouts and he is perfect selection for that draft. But if the club sees fit to go with him now then who am I to judge.

Which ever way we go, I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them ended up on WC
list.
Cripps isn’t getting any younger, Willie at Port, Jk retired, I can’t remember when
was the last time their forward line looked like this?
To say Darling and Allen have to standup is an understatement.

 

[FreoRicci]

Actually don’t mind Hughes on the wing. Let him train all pre season. HE really should get license to just run, underratedly fast and is a hard nut.

That wing spot is a huge question mark. Depth is a bit iffy. It is anyone’s at this stage. Henry still is a way off, Wagner has an injury?, Erasmus isn’t exactly the best option.

 

[FreoRicci]

The 22 v Collingwood Semi Final is what the team will be
Treacy > Lobb
Henry/MJ > Acres
Tabs > Logue.

The interesting one is Jackson. A small will have to come out. Or does Tabs stay out and Jackson replaces Lobb’s role?

Really could see Brodie coming out and Fyfe coming in, even benched. JOM may not even start Round 1.

 

[theGav56]

Actually don’t mind Hughes on the wing. Let him train all pre season. HE really should get license to just run, underratedly fast and is a hard nut.

That wing spot is a huge question mark. Depth is a bit iffy. It is anyone’s at this stage. Henry still is a way off, Wagner has an injury?, Erasmus isn’t exactly the best option.

What don't you like about Erasmus on the wing?

How much depth do we need given we have Aish and O'Driscoll as incumbents? Also note you name Johnson and Henry in for Acres. Pretty decent depth.

 

[Lach72]

Using this (Your club's best 22 in 2023: Who's in, who's out, who's new) for the time being
Adelaide: 3 (Rachele, McAdam, Rankine)
Brisbane: 3 (Zorko, Bailey, Cameron)
Carlton: 4 (Durdin, Fisher, Owies, Motlop)
Collingwood: 3 (Ginnivan, Elliot, McCreery)
Essendon: 2 (Guefi, Caldwell) - I'd argue the fact they have only 2 small forwards in their best 22 and one is a mid is a pretty gigantic list *-up
Geelong: 3 (Stengle, Close, Miers)
Gold Coast: 2 (Berry, Ainsworth) - I'd personally be stunned if Rosas isnt best 22 with Rankine leaving but what do I know
GWS: 3 (Bedford, Greene, Daniels) - Green plays both tall and small
Hawthorne: 3 (Wingard, Breust, Moore)
Melbourne: 2 (Pickett, ANB) - the close to 1 but I'd disagree Spargo is missing out anyway
North Melbourne: 1 (Curtis) - I dont think the worst team in the comp playing 1 small forward is a very good argument...
Port Adelaide: 3 (Rioli, Butters, SPP)
Richmond: 3 (Baker, Rioli, Bolton)
Saint Kilda: 3 (Owens, Gresham, Butler)
Sydney: 2 (Gulden, Papley)
West Coast: 1-3 (Ryan, Cripps, Petrucelle) probs various opinions on which of these, if any are small forwards. Think if we include Freddy, all three are "smalls"
Western Bulldogs: 3-4 (West, Weightman, Vandermeer, Duryea) Duryea plays both sides of the ground so dont know where you'd put him.

Overall, I think every good team bar Sydney play at least 3 smalls in some shape or form (though I'd argue you could include Hayward here) but only Carlton definitively play 4. You're probably have a point we play one small too many but I think it's a bit crazy to suggest dropping two of the names you mentioned in a forwardline that would have Jackson/Darcy, Fyfe, Amiss/Treacy and Tabs if you dropped just one small - that's plenty tall enough.

Brisbane also play Lincoln McCarthy

 

[Lach72]

Actually don’t mind Hughes on the wing. Let him train all pre season. HE really should get license to just run, underratedly fast and is a hard nut.

That wing spot is a huge question mark. Depth is a bit iffy. It is anyone’s at this stage. Henry still is a way off, Wagner has an injury?, Erasmus isn’t exactly the best option.

I do. I don’t want his Ibbotson level decision making anywhere near a wing tbh

 

[FreoRicci]

What don't you like about Erasmus on the wing?

How much depth do we need given we have Aish and O'Driscoll as incumbents? Also note you name Johnson and Henry in for Acres. Pretty decent depth.

Very decent.
Playing on the wing is different then inside/midfield. Different talent set. Can Eraramus run 10K+ a game whilst defending the wing? Midfield/half forward is easier on the youngsters.

The concern is Henry and whether he suddenly increases his disposal quantity and quality.

 

[FreoRicci]

I do. I don’t want his Ibbotson level decision making anywhere near a wing tbh

Acres was very similar. Doesn’t have the best decision making at times. Can run and mark decent for a wing. Hughes will get a try for Peel.