Preview 2023 Rd 12 Carlton vs Melbourne Friday June 2 7:50PM @ MCG

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Team is in …





IN: Alex Cincotta, Zac Fisher, Lochie O'Brien, Jack Silvagni, Lewis Young
OUT: Corey Durdin (knee), George Hewett (concussion), Ollie Hollands (collarbone), Nic Newman (hamstring), Marc Pittonet (hand), Ed Curnow


www.carltonfc.com.au

AFL team changes: Five ins for Friday

Carlton has named five returnees for Friday night football.
www.carltonfc.com.au www.carltonfc.com.au



Backs:Alex CincottaJacob WeiteringBrodie Kemp
Half-backs:Lewis YoungMitch McGovernAdam Saad
Centreline:Blake AcresPatrick CrippsSam Walsh
Half-forwards:Jesse MotlopCharlie CurnowJack Silvagni
Forwards:Zac FisherHarry McKayMatthew Owies
Followers:Tom De KoningMatthew KennedyAdam Cerra
Interchange:Jordan BoydMatthew CottrellSam Docherty
Lochie O'Brien
Emergencies:Ed CurnowPaddy DowLachie Fogarty
Lachie Plowman
 
blue healer said:
I think the logical reason to pick Dow was negated last night when Cerra was freed to play. He almost had to be picked if Cerra was out but now, using our standard selection logic, Ed (who wasn't anywhere near our worst last week) could easily be seen by the M/C as the ideal replacement in the 22 for Hewitt. He has, after all, been picked every game this year.

That's the logic I would kind of expect. I don't agree with it for one minute but there it is in my view.

Having said that I fully expect Dow to be picked this week mainly due to the weight of public opinion and in the very likely event that we get smashed they can also give a big "told you so" to those of us who want to see him given his opportunity.

But spare a thought for him if that happens. The pressure on him will be enormous, he's minding a seat for a player struggling big time but will come straight in when cleared. On past selection practice he will, once again, be first man out regardless of the result unless he can actually pick up 5 coaches votes, not likely to get any more than that because the bar Vossy has set is far too high for Paddy.

I'd actually prefer him not to be picked unless we are prepared to give him a block of games.
Click to expand...


The Prendercast guys made a good point a few weeks back that last year Dow only got picked for a couple of big high-pressure games where the whole team was under the pump. He didn't get picked for West Coast or North for example (like Kemp) to have an easier game to get his bearings.
 
HarryFlashman said:
100%, I think it pretty safe to say that it’s questionable that Mirkov will get at to AFL standard.
Giving him a massive opportunity to learn could be the thing that sparks a step up in his approach & kick starts his development again (he’s definitely gotten better but it’s been a slow curve).
Give him his support animal - anyone who watch’s the VFL will tell u Dow basically tells him what to do & then he pretty much does it. He’s always around supporting the bloke too (worth noting Dow does use himself as a decoy at times & will block for others to change the clearance structure).
And to those who say Mirkov will cop a bath & lose confidence - F*** That! It happens!
Some people are just better than u, u man up and learn from it, u look at what they do, u ask questions! (I 100% believe that if he called Max after the game & had a chat he’d actually help him)
no better place to learn than from someone who is just straight out better at the same role as you.
If your not a sook it’s an awesome opportunity.
Click to expand...
Yeah!! We want the MIRK!!! And bring in Paddy D as well, so we have both Butch and Sundance strutting their stuff at clearances.

I'm totally over the Silvagni experiment as the relief ruckman. It doesn't work!! The Tiggs did it successfully one year with Grigg out of necessity, but that was pretty much one off.

C'mon Vossy, we know you're lurking around here looking for ideas. At least give the fans something different to cheer about...if we're gonna go down, lets go down swinging rather than take the 'safe' option. Same old same old.
 

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Bamboo Harvester said:
Yeah!! We want the MIRK!!! And bring in Paddy D as well, so we have both Butch and Sundance strutting their stuff at clearances.

I'm totally over the Silvagni experiment as the relief ruckman. It doesn't work!! The Tiggs did it successfully one year with Grigg out of necessity, but that was pretty much one off.

C'mon Vossy, we know you're lurking around here looking for ideas. At least give the fans something different to cheer about...if we're gonna go down, lets go down swinging rather than take the 'safe' option. Same old same old.
Click to expand...
While Mirk's ruck work is improving he just can't get involved around the ground. He needs to be clunking them like Cox but he doesn't. Would get exposed against 2 of the best around the ground rucks in the league.
 
ajb72 said:
Good to see everyone has moved on from the McKay debacle already and has him in their teams.

Looking forward to May & Lever breaking intercept marking records and McKay kicking another couple out on the full this week.
Click to expand...


Are you available for kids parties ??? :D:D
 
Sector 7G said:
While Mirk's ruck work is improving he just can't get involved around the ground. He needs to be clunking them like Cox but he doesn't. Would get exposed against 2 of the best around the ground rucks in the league.
Click to expand...
As an AFL coach said recently 'if you leave a player in the VFL for too long, they become a VFL player'.

He's not going to be a marking presence like a Cox - I think we acknowledge that - but if he can bring our mids into the game and give us first use out the middle, I'm fine with that. Why not give him a chance?

The reality is that unless we try something different, we're just gonna end up with the same result....and we all know what that looks like.
 
We have a lot of injuries, we have really poor form. We are fortunate enough we have some players in the VFL with good form.

1. We are finally being forced to play a team that is not dreadfully slow and immobile in the centre. Or will we find a way?

2. We are finally being forced to play some players we just won't play? Or Will we find a way not to?

3. We need to try some things and see what works and what does not work.

TEAM
B: Cincotta Weitering Kemp
HB: Docherty McGovern Saad
C: Binns Kennedy Acres
HF: Cottrell Young Owies
F: Fisher Curnow McKay
OB: DeKoning Walsh Cerra
IC: Boyd Dow Curnow Motlop
SUB: Silvagni

OUT: Cripps Hewett Pittonet Durdin Hollands Newman

IN: Dow Cincotta Fisher Binns Young *Silvagni *Curnow

TACTICS

FORWARDS
1. Splitting the big forwards up, having one at full forward and one at CHF DOES NOT WORK! This allows both to be double teamed and makes our ball movement predictable on both lines. You play them both deep. Can't double team two big guys who are both in that dangerous distance from the ball at the same time. Opposition don't know who we are going to target, puts defenders under pressure, stops guys like Moore from playing off their man and sitting in front of the one obvious target.

2. Big guys play deep but move. Our obsession with deep entries means we are predictable and it means the forwards don't lead. Intercept defenders have a hard time if the forwards are coming at the ball. Forwards take more marks if they are leading and jumping at the ball. Defenders take less marks and give away more free kicks as well.

3. A true CHF. Lets not dump the idea of a true CHF. Lets just keep our two primary forwards deep. They will attract the two best defenders and intercept tall. This is a job for Lewis Young. He's got forward and ruck experience. His time as a forward was as a player who was too young for AFL and in a short forward line as the number 1 or 2 target. This time he's AFL experienced, mature in age and will be on the 3rd tall defender. His job will to get up the ground around centre wing and give us a target coming off half back. The other part of his role will be ruck relief.


MIDFIELD
I want to see our attacking and defending plans in the middle. I want to see Walsh and Cerra, particularly Walsh starting defensive side of the contest running through it running forward and getting the ball on the offensive side of the contest more. I want to see Kennedy really playing that traditional Centre role, getting the ball offensive side and dishing off to the runners. What I want to see is movement at the stoppages. I don't want to see planted feet. I want to see Dow in there and us using him a lot.

In the midfield I want to see some of our mids staying home a bit more. Kennedy getting forward of the footy a lot more. Can't have him getting behind the ball as he can't run and can't get involved in the play moving forward. He floats around the centre, does not drop back in defence and plays the traditional centerman role that Cripps does. Use him going forward, he's a good mark.

Cerra, Walsh, Curnow, Fisher and Cottrell to be the main runners. Run both ways, position at the back of the contest and run through it. Kennedy and Dow stay more at home in the middle.

Really rotate players. From first to last bounce. I want to see Fisher going into the middle a fair bit. Playing from behind the contest running forward. Let's throw Cottrell into the middle at times.

DEFENCE
There is enough run in defence. I want to see defenders running off their man and through the contest. I want to see players coming off the back of the square. Boyd and Cincotta are rising mature age running defenders and are going alright. I want to see them step up. I want to see Docherty coaching them on their running patterns, encouraging them to attack.

It's a little short back there but lets see how it goes. Can always swap McGovern and Young around. It has run and legspeed that defence so that should be a real strength.


PLAYER ROLES
Weitering and McGovern lock down, let's try and get Kemp lose, he's got form in this role. If we need Young back, then he goes back. Silvagni an option to go back to defence as well if needed if he's on.

Dochery and Saad really run off their men. First bounce, they come streaming from behind through the middle. You need the men off the back of the square for overlap run but also to stop the opposition running the ball out of the stoppage and having open space to kick to targets. Rotate the defenders between playing high up and playing deep. Boyd and Cincotta can do this as well.

Binns and Acres to play mostly wing. Binns is a very good natural footballer with a high footy IQ and excellent ability to run. Don't be surprised if he comes in and is this weeks rising star. He'll just rack it up, feed off our mids and get overlap runs. Hollands might be the better athlete but IMO Binns has the better footy IQ but we will see. Won't be disappointed. Will be disappointed if he does not play. You'd pretty much put it in the book that Voss has no idea how to coach if Binns does not play.

Cottrell and Ed Curnow to both play half forward and on the ball but I want to see them burning up the kilometres. Make their opponents work really hard, make them run hard and make them chase hard. So want to see them pushing really high up the ground and running forward hard on the rebound. You want to stop rebounding defenders then you make them tired, you make them chase over a long distance and at speed. Gas them out, take their rebound away from them.

Curnow and McKay. They both play deep, they both play in earshot of each other. You separate them simply by having one lead first, the other leads second or holds. IMO you fix McKay's kicking by having him do less running, keep his legs fresh and by having him get his shots closer to goal. All they have to do is communicate well with each other and quite simply work out which one leads first and then the other works around that. Lets get them both deep.

Fisher will play a lot on the ball but forward he plays deep. Motlop plays half forward but he plays it more as a forward pocket would. He needs to be at the feet of the two big forwards, he stays closer to home, he does not have the tank to play high yet.

Owies to play more half forward.

Dow. Dow to play a fair bit of time in the forward pocket at the feet of the two big forwards, it's something he does well in the VFL. His not a grind it out all day on the ball mid. He's an impact mid who can kick goals. You need to rotate him. When he goes into the middle we look for him. Clearing the ball and breaking away from players is his strength. When he goes on the ball he's not a defensive mid, he has to stay at home in the midfield, same as Kennedy.

Young plays CHF and goes into the ruck. If we are too short down back, IE Kemp and McGovern can't hold their opponents down then he goes back. McGovern goes to CHF.

Silvagni as sub. Versatile player, can come on and rotate with a lot of others out there.
 
Last edited:
TDK against Grundy & Gawn.. Oh my.. Not sure there is any value bringing back JSOS to compete against them, because he wont, perhaps play him as a sub as insurance.

Gives us a chance to try something completely different with our forward set up..
I would like to look at something like this

Motlop, Charlie, Fisher
Owies, McKay, Kennedy

I would have McKay play basically out of the square, have him lead within the tram lines, inside 40 where he is a better chance of converting. Kennedy as a lead up forward, would be a difficult match up and Charlie as the roaming, Wayne Carey type CHF. Kennedy almost becomes the key to this setup because him leading and attacking as long as our mids lower their eyes should restrict May & Lever's intercepting, which if we bomb long to Harry all night we know what the result will be.
 
Its time to mix things up a bit,throw Gov up forward between H and C. Give the Dees something else to think about. We all know when Charlie gets the ball up the ground who he's going to target up forward so we need other options. JSos isnt working forward,swap Gov an Jack around and tell him to lead in the opposite direction to the twin towers when the balls coming in.
 

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Put JSOS on ball, ditch the stupid ruck move.

Fisher on ball to spice things up even more.

TDK lead up forward.

Stop making silly bombs into congested space.

Stop making Jesse go for contested marks against players twice his size.

We might actually have a chance..lol
 
ajb72 said:
Good to see everyone has moved on from the McKay debacle already and has him in their teams.

Looking forward to May & Lever breaking intercept marking records and McKay kicking another couple out on the full this week.
Click to expand...

Sadly I agree. The way we're kicking into the forward line it's going to be another epic game for the opposition backline.
 
I thought we'd begun to move past the 'bomb it long' strategy. I even thought we might move beyond the 'boundaries at all costs' mantra. Until we learn to effectively use and exploit the corridor and lower the eyes (two things you'd think would be pretty basic - not easy, but basic) then we've got no chance.

Tons of other things we need to start doing as well but the above drive me crazy week on week (goal kicking moderately well, leading to the ball, applying a modicum of pressure in the F50).
 
Matty411 said:
If he's not selected this week, he'd be every chance to sit out the season from here on tbh as he'd clearly have no chance at a game and the club has something against him.
Click to expand...
And therein lies the problem with the culture of the club, whether you want him in or not, when he's racking up the possessions game after game and can't get a look in that affects the fabric of the club.
 
P_Crippy said:
Does anyone in here have a logical reason for Dow not to be selected this week?
To my mind, with the outs we have, there is a spot there.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately Dow attacks the ball in stoppages and centre bounces and directs it forward too much.
Our preferred system is to handball back towards the opposition goals and then do a 'U-turn' and chip the ball around all over the place.
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
Unfortunately Dow attacks the ball in stoppages and centre bounces and directs it forward too much.
Our preferred system is to handball back towards the opposition goals and then do a 'U-turn' and chip the ball around all over the place.
Click to expand...
I believe that what u said is actually the main reason - his play goes against the Voss preferred system of clearance & game plan.
It sounds insane until u factor in all the time Voss talks about his preferred group, defensive mindset/structure & how we actually play.
 
jimsta10 said:
Put JSOS on ball, ditch the stupid ruck move.

Fisher on ball to spice things up even more.

TDK lead up forward.

Stop making silly bombs into congested space.

Stop making Jesse go for contested marks against players twice his size.

We might actually have a chance..lol
Click to expand...
If SOS is on the ball & TDK playing lead up forward... and Pitto has a broken hand, who plays in the Ruck.. I could see Cotters giving us at least as much as Jack did when he went in.. Cotterell v Grundy & Gawn :think:
 
gbatman said:
We have a lot of injuries, we have really poor form. We are fortunate enough we have some players in the VFL with good form.

1. We are finally being forced to play a team that is not dreadfully slow and immobile in the centre. Or will we find a way?

2. We are finally being forced to play some players we just won't play? Or Will we find a way not to?

3. We need to try some things and see what works and what does not work.

TEAM
B: Cincotta Weitering Kemp
HB: Docherty McGovern Saad
C: Binns Kennedy Acres
HF: Cottrell Young Owies
F: Fisher Curnow McKay
OB: DeKoning Walsh Cerra
IC: Boyd Dow Curnow Motlop
SUB: Silvagni

OUT: Cripps Hewett Pittonet Durdin Hollands Newman

IN: Dow Cincotta Fisher Binns Young *Silvagni *Curnow

TACTICS

FORWARDS
1. Splitting the big forwards up, having one at full forward and one at CHF DOES NOT WORK! This allows both to be double teamed and makes our ball movement predictable on both lines. You play them both deep. Can't double team two big guys who are both in that dangerous distance from the ball at the same time. Opposition don't know who we are going to target, puts defenders under pressure, stops guys like Moore from playing off their man and sitting in front of the one obvious target.

2. Big guys play deep but move. Our obsession with deep entries means we are predictable and it means the forwards don't lead. Intercept defenders have a hard time if the forwards are coming at the ball. Forwards take more marks if they are leading and jumping at the ball. Defenders take less marks and give away more free kicks as well.

3. A true CHF. Lets not dump the idea of a true CHF. Lets just keep our two primary forwards deep. They will attract the two best defenders and intercept tall. This is a job for Lewis Young. He's got forward and ruck experience. His time as a forward was as a player who was too young for AFL and in a short forward line as the number 1 or 2 target. This time he's AFL experienced, mature in age and will be on the 3rd tall defender. His job will to get up the ground around centre wing and give us a target coming off half back. The other part of his role will be ruck relief.


MIDFIELD
I want to see our attacking and defending plans in the middle. I want to see Walsh and Cerra, particularly Walsh starting defensive side of the contest running through it running forward and getting the ball on the offensive side of the contest more. I want to see Kennedy really playing that traditional Centre role, getting the ball offensive side and dishing off to the runners. What I want to see is movement at the stoppages. I don't want to see planted feet. I want to see Dow in there and us using him a lot.

In the midfield I want to see some of our mids staying home a bit more. Kennedy getting forward of the footy a lot more. Can't have him getting behind the ball as he can't run and can't get involved in the play moving forward. He floats around the centre, does not drop back in defence and plays the traditional centerman role that Cripps does. Use him going forward, he's a good mark.

Cerra, Walsh, Curnow, Fisher and Cottrell to be the main runners. Run both ways, position at the back of the contest and run through it. Kennedy and Dow stay more at home in the middle.

Really rotate players. From first to last bounce. I want to see Fisher going into the middle a fair bit. Playing from behind the contest running forward. Let's throw Cottrell into the middle at times.

DEFENCE
There is enough run in defence. I want to see defenders running off their man and through the contest. I want to see players coming off the back of the square. Boyd and Cincotta are rising mature age running defenders and are going alright. I want to see them step up. I want to see Docherty coaching them on their running patterns, encouraging them to attack.

It's a little short back there but lets see how it goes. Can always swap McGovern and Young around. It has run and legspeed that defence so that should be a real strength.


PLAYER ROLES
Weitering and McGovern lock down, let's try and get Kemp lose, he's got form in this role. If we need Young back, then he goes back. Silvagni an option to go back to defence as well if needed if he's on.

Dochery and Saad really run off their men. First bounce, they come streaming from behind through the middle. You need the men off the back of the square for overlap run but also to stop the opposition running the ball out of the stoppage and having open space to kick to targets. Rotate the defenders between playing high up and playing deep. Boyd and Cincotta can do this as well.

Binns and Acres to play mostly wing. Binns is a very good natural footballer with a high footy IQ and excellent ability to run. Don't be surprised if he comes in and is this weeks rising star. He'll just rack it up, feed off our mids and get overlap runs. Hollands might be the better athlete but IMO Binns has the better footy IQ but we will see. Won't be disappointed. Will be disappointed if he does not play. You'd pretty much put it in the book that Voss has no idea how to coach if Binns does not play.

Cottrell and Ed Curnow to both play half forward and on the ball but I want to see them burning up the kilometres. Make their opponents work really hard, make them run hard and make them chase hard. So want to see them pushing really high up the ground and running forward hard on the rebound. You want to stop rebounding defenders then you make them tired, you make them chase over a long distance and at speed. Gas them out, take their rebound away from them.

Curnow and McKay. They both play deep, they both play in earshot of each other. You separate them simply by having one lead first, the other leads second or holds. IMO you fix McKay's kicking by having him do less running, keep his legs fresh and by having him get his shots closer to goal. All they have to do is communicate well with each other and quite simply work out which one leads first and then the other works around that. Lets get them both deep.

Fisher will play a lot on the ball but forward he plays deep. Motlop plays half forward but he plays it more as a forward pocket would. He needs to be at the feet of the two big forwards, he stays closer to home, he does not have the tank to play high yet.

Owies to play more half forward.

Dow. Dow to play a fair bit of time in the forward pocket at the feet of the two big forwards, it's something he does well in the VFL. His not a grind it out all day on the ball mid. He's an impact mid who can kick goals. You need to rotate him. When he goes into the middle we look for him. Clearing the ball and breaking away from players is his strength. When he goes on the ball he's not a defensive mid, he has to stay at home in the midfield, same as Kennedy.

Young plays CHF and goes into the ruck. If we are too short down back, IE Kemp and McGovern can't hold their opponents down then he goes back. McGovern goes to CHF.

Silvagni as sub. Versatile player, can come on and rotate with a lot of others out there.
Click to expand...

Wow omitting Cripps for Dow is a huge call.

Personally I think Cripps is primed for a huge game. Dow too in the VFL.


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