Autopsy 2023 Rd 12 No end to misery in sight
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Surely everyone agrees a fresh injection of ideas and a more flexible mindset from Voss is the minimum. That may mean 1-2 different senior assistant coaches. And a strong talk with him. Brad Lloyd is the least likely to stay out of the whole club in my view. He isn’t the one to deliver the stern chat.
Best way to find space? It’s not just play fast.
It’s be unpredictable. Every time we did that in the second half it created space. Every single time.
Damn straight. I always knew it was the rookies and fringe players holding us back.
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sparkybagger
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- May 24, 2023
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Watching the baggers at the moment feels like the Bolton days where I'm looking for the small things in games to get through them (green shoots, anyone?). I think Kemp-watching has become my new pastime. Despite a couple of mistakes, I really enjoyed his game last night.
Same with Cincotta and maybe Chugga. The rest of them can do one. Otherwise, I'm about as uninvested in a playing group as I've ever been.
Same with Cincotta and maybe Chugga. The rest of them can do one. Otherwise, I'm about as uninvested in a playing group as I've ever been.
Yea I just turn up to games to just support. Nothing to get excited about but clinch to the hope that it may change one day
Next 3-5 years look dire again if nothing is done
Liam Jones v2.0.
I say just let him play to his natural instincts.
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The only markers of statistical success that Voss could claim are now slipping away.
Garbage tackling. Contested game disappeared.
The only positive I can think of is we were slightly better in the 2nd half.
If we win more than 3-4 games from here I’d be surprised.
This has failed. Sad.
Garbage tackling. Contested game disappeared.
The only positive I can think of is we were slightly better in the 2nd half.
If we win more than 3-4 games from here I’d be surprised.
This has failed. Sad.
The only noticeable difference I saw from previous weeks to this was the intensity at the contest was higher.
But we were awful for the most part. Same crap as every other week basically. Lucky to be in it at the last quarter.
I liked Kemp’s game.
But we were awful for the most part. Same crap as every other week basically. Lucky to be in it at the last quarter.
I liked Kemp’s game.
The only thing this club seems to have succeeded in is killing off the passion of the fans.
It feels like that fans really are at the point of just not caring anymore.
The fan base is free falling into apathy.
It feels like that fans really are at the point of just not caring anymore.
The fan base is free falling into apathy.
Hodge and McClure making plenty of sense to me this morning in crunch time
I’d love to have Hodge in a coaching role….
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I’d love to have Hodge in a coaching role….
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The state of the Carlton fanbase is more concerning to me than the onfield product at the moment - incredible given the state of the latter. Every game we fail to win, the tension manages to reach new heights. It’s understandable because we’ve been suffering for so long and it feels like another false dawn dissolving in our grasp - but it’s really not helping, nor does it have any nuanced understanding of where we are. If we are to truly break this vicious cycle we are trapped in, we need to assess our current state and determine what course of actions will most effectively advance us towards our end goal.
My view has always been that getting flogged is bad, but supporters shirking it - leaving early and abusing players - is the absolute worst. A combination of 20+ years of heartbreaking failures and a media machine hellbent on seeing us burn has whipped us into a frenzy. It’s not good, and it exposes deep scars within the wider Carlton family. Sitting at games and hearing Blues fans vocally turning on players has made me feel ashamed - it’s not everyone and I have no issue with a bit of frustration at a repeated mistake or weak effort, but I struggle to think of a supporter base I’ve encountered who have turned on their own more quickly than these last few weeks.
All of this is from someone who is equally dismayed and frustrated by what we are seeing. However, all this talk of the world burning is greatly exaggerated and I truly believe things are not as bad as they seem.
Why?
1 - the highest levels of the club seem to, for the first time, have some sort of conviction in extricating us from the ‘old Carlton’ mentality. The board standing resolute against the egomaniacal powerbrokers warms the heart. It’s that cultural cancer that has gnawed away at us ever since we stopped being able to throw money at problems and buy our way out. These agitators falsely parade under the guise of passion and love for the club, but to them, it is always about THEM. Brashness. Impatience. Finger pointing. Machinations in the shadows. Good riddance.
Weak clubs bow to pressure as a release valve when the heat is turned up. We have some course corrections still to do, but we must avoid the knee jerk, scorched earth folly of the past. Things take time. Let them play out and don’t make the mistake of snuffing out the flame before it’s had a chance to catch alight. Naturally, you must also have the sense to abandon course if you have enough evidence to be sure it’s not the right one
2 - our on-field performance, looking beyond the 4pts, has more merit than some give credit… the inability to score is infuriating, but we have built a resilient and effective defensive style of play. It’s not enough to win games right now, but it is difficult to do correctly and it must be taught and built over time and constantly reinforced.
We have been competitive at nearly all times of every game, bar a couple of really ugly quarters. Surely others also bear the scars of our teams from 10-15 years ago not being able to defend their way out of a wet paper bag. This side has better constitution than that and I believe defensive grit and discipline is more difficult to instil in a playing group
3 - the failure of our current game plan to play modern attacking footy - corridor, run, punish turnovers and move the ball quickly - is partially a planning issue but very significantly, a personnel issue. The SOS era of list building, aside from nailing the 2015 crop (albeit with 4 first rounders), has left us completely ill-equipped to play in this exciting run-and-gun fashion. Take a look at our draft history - so many years wasted.
I have major issues with how we are coaching right now, but you cannot simply will slick ball movement into existence - you must have the cattle. We have a noted lack of legspeed and foot skills, arguably the two most important traits in this era of AFL. So what is Voss meant to do to mirror Collingwood’s brilliance when his cupboard is completely lacking players with either, let alone both, of those things? I am not saying he’s even the right man to lead us forward, but we have to accept it’s not as simple as clicking your fingers. The contrast between H1 and H2 last night was quite stark for me even still, and we simply have to mirror the more attacking mentality from last night’s second half more regularly from the outset to seize the initiative
We are hurting in a big way with all those wasted drafts and while I am a sucker for optimism, I have been pleased by Austin’s early returns - finding the right sort of players to balance our list and they are clearly coming on quickly enough to be playing early. It’s just not an overnight fix unfortunately
These words will provide little comfort and I am certainly not telling anyone they can’t be pissed off. We have all been through it. Footy has brought us nothing but pain for as long as we can remember, and so many true Blue fans have stuck through thick and thin. But continue to play our role as supporters too - support the team, the organisation - and spurn the saboteurs (whether they claim to be Carlton people or from the outside looking in) who want nothing more than to sow chaos.
To reiterate, I am also not even saying Vossy, or any specific figures, are going to be there when we win our next flag. We have to continually scrutinise and re-assess all aspects of the club. The game plan and list building needs to get a wriggle on. But have faith in the broader system and continue, despite the frustration, to invest in these painful steps towards becoming a proper club again. Our emotions are being intentionally stoked to see red and ignore any of the subtler context at play.
Now, whether you agree or you’d rather sack everyone tomorrow, we are all hurting immensely this year. Take the weekend to forget about this horrid run of results and not let it bring you down any more than it has to. Good luck.
My view has always been that getting flogged is bad, but supporters shirking it - leaving early and abusing players - is the absolute worst. A combination of 20+ years of heartbreaking failures and a media machine hellbent on seeing us burn has whipped us into a frenzy. It’s not good, and it exposes deep scars within the wider Carlton family. Sitting at games and hearing Blues fans vocally turning on players has made me feel ashamed - it’s not everyone and I have no issue with a bit of frustration at a repeated mistake or weak effort, but I struggle to think of a supporter base I’ve encountered who have turned on their own more quickly than these last few weeks.
All of this is from someone who is equally dismayed and frustrated by what we are seeing. However, all this talk of the world burning is greatly exaggerated and I truly believe things are not as bad as they seem.
Why?
1 - the highest levels of the club seem to, for the first time, have some sort of conviction in extricating us from the ‘old Carlton’ mentality. The board standing resolute against the egomaniacal powerbrokers warms the heart. It’s that cultural cancer that has gnawed away at us ever since we stopped being able to throw money at problems and buy our way out. These agitators falsely parade under the guise of passion and love for the club, but to them, it is always about THEM. Brashness. Impatience. Finger pointing. Machinations in the shadows. Good riddance.
Weak clubs bow to pressure as a release valve when the heat is turned up. We have some course corrections still to do, but we must avoid the knee jerk, scorched earth folly of the past. Things take time. Let them play out and don’t make the mistake of snuffing out the flame before it’s had a chance to catch alight. Naturally, you must also have the sense to abandon course if you have enough evidence to be sure it’s not the right one
2 - our on-field performance, looking beyond the 4pts, has more merit than some give credit… the inability to score is infuriating, but we have built a resilient and effective defensive style of play. It’s not enough to win games right now, but it is difficult to do correctly and it must be taught and built over time and constantly reinforced.
We have been competitive at nearly all times of every game, bar a couple of really ugly quarters. Surely others also bear the scars of our teams from 10-15 years ago not being able to defend their way out of a wet paper bag. This side has better constitution than that and I believe defensive grit and discipline is more difficult to instil in a playing group
3 - the failure of our current game plan to play modern attacking footy - corridor, run, punish turnovers and move the ball quickly - is partially a planning issue but very significantly, a personnel issue. The SOS era of list building, aside from nailing the 2015 crop (albeit with 4 first rounders), has left us completely ill-equipped to play in this exciting run-and-gun fashion. Take a look at our draft history - so many years wasted.
I have major issues with how we are coaching right now, but you cannot simply will slick ball movement into existence - you must have the cattle. We have a noted lack of legspeed and foot skills, arguably the two most important traits in this era of AFL. So what is Voss meant to do to mirror Collingwood’s brilliance when his cupboard is completely lacking players with either, let alone both, of those things? I am not saying he’s even the right man to lead us forward, but we have to accept it’s not as simple as clicking your fingers. The contrast between H1 and H2 last night was quite stark for me even still, and we simply have to mirror the more attacking mentality from last night’s second half more regularly from the outset to seize the initiative
We are hurting in a big way with all those wasted drafts and while I am a sucker for optimism, I have been pleased by Austin’s early returns - finding the right sort of players to balance our list and they are clearly coming on quickly enough to be playing early. It’s just not an overnight fix unfortunately
These words will provide little comfort and I am certainly not telling anyone they can’t be pissed off. We have all been through it. Footy has brought us nothing but pain for as long as we can remember, and so many true Blue fans have stuck through thick and thin. But continue to play our role as supporters too - support the team, the organisation - and spurn the saboteurs (whether they claim to be Carlton people or from the outside looking in) who want nothing more than to sow chaos.
To reiterate, I am also not even saying Vossy, or any specific figures, are going to be there when we win our next flag. We have to continually scrutinise and re-assess all aspects of the club. The game plan and list building needs to get a wriggle on. But have faith in the broader system and continue, despite the frustration, to invest in these painful steps towards becoming a proper club again. Our emotions are being intentionally stoked to see red and ignore any of the subtler context at play.
Now, whether you agree or you’d rather sack everyone tomorrow, we are all hurting immensely this year. Take the weekend to forget about this horrid run of results and not let it bring you down any more than it has to. Good luck.
Can you give us a summary
charred_fate
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- Jul 10, 2021
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Hodge is the dream result for me!
It was just a decent balanced discussion of where we are at and what the plan is going forward. Whatley suggesting we blow up the group and mini rebuild….Hodge said no the nucleus is there…give coach more time to mould and add speed and more skill
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I think both suggestions have a lot of merit tbh
Over rated the football ability of quite a few unfortunately, a fair few need to go.
No surprise we’re not kicking goals we only have two forwards out of six down there that could be considered worthy and until that is rectified we’ll continue to see these low scores.
Voss put in place more accountability on defense over the off season as he should after our inability to defend leads last year but has now found out he doesn’t have the players to implement.
Don’t believe we can fully judge the game plan until we have the cattle, the only thing I will ask of Voss is stop ****ing around with player positions. Doc back to half back, mid experiment done thanks, no sos in the ruck, rest Cripps and Kennedy forward (not for a half though), no more Ed just no need, try Binns ffs, give Dow a run at it please.
And in the off season find four ****ing forwards who can play.
No surprise we’re not kicking goals we only have two forwards out of six down there that could be considered worthy and until that is rectified we’ll continue to see these low scores.
Voss put in place more accountability on defense over the off season as he should after our inability to defend leads last year but has now found out he doesn’t have the players to implement.
Don’t believe we can fully judge the game plan until we have the cattle, the only thing I will ask of Voss is stop ****ing around with player positions. Doc back to half back, mid experiment done thanks, no sos in the ruck, rest Cripps and Kennedy forward (not for a half though), no more Ed just no need, try Binns ffs, give Dow a run at it please.
And in the off season find four ****ing forwards who can play.
Don't entirely agree with this. Saad's biggest asset is his run and carry, and breaking the lines in transition with speed setting up the forwards. Playing as a half forward largely nullifies this asset unless you are a natural forward with speed like a Cameron or Rankine, or even Pickett.
However, I do agree there's a strong case to move him further up the ground - especially when the opposition pull him deeper and make him defend more, like the Cows have done on the last two encounters. Giving him a run on the wing at least lets him break that 'tag' - although I'm not confident if he has the tank to play there for an entire match.
Just spitballing....when we finally get Zilliams back, we have himself, Newy, Cincotta, Boyd, Cow and Doch in the mix for the half backs, with Saad moving to a wing/half forward role. Let him use his biggest asset playing on a wing and make his opponent accountable, then rotate him through half forward when he starts blowing a foofer valve.
I have no doubt that Langdon wouldn't have had the same influence on the game lining up on Saad.
Rebuilds are not the solution for this group. No team needs 22 stars across every position to be successful. Employ a sustainable and executable game plan and improve their flipping base level of skills of hitting targets. Yes, there will be the odd errant disposal, but Fmd we butcher the ball the most out of any team by a country mile.
McGovern wouldn't make it into a top side, they demand 100% effort and buy in. No Squibs allowed.
Agree with you Rappa, re game plan, but skill levels will not evolve to significantly improve players, one either has quality skills & footy IQ or not, these attributes can’t be taught, their innate.
However skills can be tidied up that’s about it.
However skills can be tidied up that’s about it.
They certainly do and both scenarios still have the head coach in tact….it’s up to Austin and co I guess
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