Autopsy 2023 Rd 5 Blues get smashed by Crows

[muzza99]

Don't want to bag the coach...just wanted to pose the question. How much different would we look had Clarkson been appointed instead of Vossy?

I suspect on the team sheet it would have said Coach: A.Clarkson instead of Coach: M.Voss

 

[gbatman]

We need to have a serious look at how we apply pressure at the stoppages, particularly on the outside. We disconnect immediately after the ruck contest. Our ability to apply pressure is how we compete against the faster sides. Our ability to apply pressure is crap.

Leg speed is a huge issue. we aren't going far with Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy and Curnow in the midfield. It's unbelievably slow. Voss needs to be flexible when it comes to who is in his best midfield.

Our backline is caput. No Williams, Docherty, Boyd. It's broken. It has no run, there is no leg speed back there.

Quicker players at Carlton not playing. Williams, McGovern, Boyd, Kemp, Dow, Philp, Cuningham, O'Brien, Fogarty, Marchbank, Cincotta and Cottrell. They are either not fit enough, not selected or not good enough.

Teams like Adelaide, Collingwood, St Kilda. They play with intensity, speed and pressure. Teams like that have put us to the sword. We need some pace and aggression in the team and we need it in the middle of the ground.

I think the pressure must be on our midfield coach. We were uncompetitive .

 

[crippler9]

Don't want to bag the coach...just wanted to pose the question. How much different would we look had Clarkson been appointed instead of Vossy?

Carlton have issues clearly, couldn’t beat Richmond when should have. Geelong cbf atm, gws we struggled and gifted a goal crucial timing, struggled against norf LMFAO and got mauled last night doesn’t look good at all

Voss isn’t the right man for the job club should be aiming for top 4 finish other wise it’s not good enough

 

[jj1978]

Crows looked as powerful against us as Essendon on PEDS did.

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And that * ruined our season and last nights outcome has the same feel to it.

 

[windows1]

not going to get the opportunity to play in a GF playing that style either. what are coaches teaching these boys.... blind Freddy can see our entries are s**t..

They’ve been pretty clear I reckon AG. “Get it in quick”. That’s about it. To do anything else (change angles, hit up on the 45 for example) require kicking and speed that we don’t have.

 

[jimsta10]

Got absolutely ripped to pieces. Gave them too much space and it killed us. Hope this lesson doesn't repeat itself.

 

[windows1]

So angry at the club right now.

How Matthew Kennedy gets picked to play and then sent to a back flank FFS…he’s actually our best stoppage midfielder and quicker than Cripps and probably Hewitt

Ed Curnow has had a solid month but he shouldn’t have been in the side as a mid if Kennedy, Hewitt, Walsh, Cerra and Cripps are playing….

How can you leave Kemp in Melbourne when you just know Gov is sore…he and Doc were a massive loss tonight. We can’t go on with retaining injury prone players….time to move a few on

Our forward line was so congested. The high ball gives the opposition plenty of time to flood back. Look how the crows demolished our zone with low flat kicks…unreal

Crumbers we’re well held and we lack that genuine HFF

SOS had another disappointing night even through he never stopped trying regardless of what position he plays

We have some real issues that were being masked by shitty wins against bottom 8 sides.
We’re slow and rely on too few to get it done

Midfield and forward coach need a good kick in the ass.

The captain needs a kick in the ass as well. Try something different take your man forward…give someone else a go l when it’s not your day

So angry

Kennedy is not ‘probably’ faster than Hewitt. I am probably faster than Hewitt. Every afl player under 6 foot 5 is faster than Hewitt.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Too slow. Just way too slow.
All around the ground but particularly in the midfield.

Paying the price for poor 2016 - 2019 drafts.

Can't beat above average AFL teams with this squad unless they turn it into an absolute slug fest.
Consistently killed in transition.

 

[The Toad]

I’ve got it.
Sack Voss, trade Cripps, drop H or Charlie, bring in a few also rans from the VFL and we’ll be right.

This place is bloody hilarious after we lose. Lots of chicken Little’s on here.

Oh I nearly forgot trade Gibbs!!

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Warning.....Rant!
We have been crap for over 23 years and are still crap. I don't get it! We've had so many high draft picks. I feel something is intrinsically wrong with our football club.
Many other clubs have fallen and risen so quickly during this period with gusto. We recruit the wrong players, even the wrong types wrapping up so much of our salary cap.
We have had zero consistency. Injuries have bitten us severely but something is still obviously wrong. We are slow, fumbley, flat footed, inconsistent, can't stick a tackle and dumb. We also lack urgency and are far from dynamic.
I guess the buck stops with management and recruitment but we find ourselves in a hole now that is difficult to get out of list wise.
Yes I know we will win games but we are nowhere near where most fans think we are, or where we actually should be.
Other clubs have passed us by. How could they? We've been building since 2000. I'm sick to death of delivering joy to the hoards of Carlton hating fans in the mainstream media and social media.
Someone tell me I'm in the middle of a bad dream and wake me up when we win the premiership.
If you tell me I'm over reacting you are in denial and should take your head out of the sand.

You are NOT over-reacting and you are not rantng...and those on the board here who play the "let's calm the farm" line or the "it's just one game" can be pointed to your scoreboard...the scoreboard of "it's been 23 years of this"...reckon the sample size is big enough now

 

[windows1]

This is the biggest takeaway for me.

They always pushed numbers back in front of Curnow and Mckay...this forced us into long, high kicks to try to get over them. Obviously these kicks are hard to mark and then we are outnumbered at ground level.

They they sprint forward and catch us out on the spread. Rinse and repeat.

I expect all teams to try this tactic against us so we need to figure out a way to beat it. St Kilda are known for this game style as well so we better think of something quick.

This has been the formula since the Pies adopted it against us mid last year.

 

[Rustica]

Timid and scared.



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Mentally weak and inept. No other excuse

 

[TheReal99prelim]

I’ve got it.
Sack Voss, trade Cripps, drop H or Charlie, bring in a few also rans from the VFL and we’ll be right.

This place is bloody hilarious after we lose. Lots of chicken Little’s on here.

Oh I nearly forgot trade Gibbs!!

Yes because there is so much evidence of success over the last 10, 15, 20 years...just aberration #378, that's all it is

 

[jpfalvo]

Sorry, I don't want to hear this Ross Lyon crap.

We had to perform due diligence and execute a professional hiring process.

Ross ruled himself out unwilling to subject himself to it.

I will firmly stand on the belief that the club did the right thing.

There are only two arguments left.

1, Did we make the right choice between Voss and Kingsley?

2. What happened to the upgraded assistant coach positions that were promised by every ITK and others with some knowledge of the club's operation? (I'll readily admit to being one who posted this). It was said that there wasn't anyone available at the end of 2021 yet 2022 failed to bring in the support Voss allegedly required.

Oh please. Ross Lyon was offered the job, then asked to sit for interviews and explain himself.

At stkilda, he was given the job. No questions asked.

As for Kingsley, word is the club decided he wasnt marketable enough. That was discussed on podcasts and on here at the time.

The assistant coach point is valid.
As is the r23 2022 post game commentary out of the club on meaningful change, tough unpopular decisions on playing list and a look into strenght and conditioning.

Looking more and more like lip service now

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[dylan_mike1]

Voss is taken a team eith one of the best sounes in the comp to the bottom. Brisbane took years to recover. His game plan is well 80 ish bomb and hope. The list manager should be sacjed giving away stocker and setterfiekd yet keeping the likes of honey and LOB your killing me. I dont care about some of the young guys struggling in the 2s give them a game as theres 5 guys doing zilch in the ones. The premiership window is closing on this group, and to be honest our bottom 8 players are absolutely woeful and we dont look anything like a top 8 team. At least run pressure harrass tackle hard we are slower than treadle. There is way too many down sides at the moment including no space in the cap. Maybe we need to moneyball a bit. But either way we are actually lucky not to be 1 and 4. Geelong game yes but the other 2 wins and a draw we were average. Such a waste.

To add to this, we are not brutal enough with our list management. Look how brutal Collingwood were, getting rid of Grundy ,trelor and to a lesser extent Jayden Stephenson and Tom phillips. Look where they are now. Where we keep persisting with Lobs and Plowman and how long are we going to persist with Marchbank? McGovern, Williams, Martin, Cunningham, Marchbank have shown over 7 years of perpetual injuries. Why do we keep persisting with these types?

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[windows1]

Why would you think? They're kids, one of them weighs 69 odd kg and is running 16km a game. Hello stress fractures.

He is an awesome natural runner. It’s as easy for him to run 16km as it is for Cripps to run 12. I’d bet he recovers very well. He will only be dropped if he loses form. Don’t see them resting him.

 

[Rustica]

I’ve got it.
Sack Voss, trade Cripps, drop H or Charlie, bring in a few also rans from the VFL and we’ll be right.

This place is bloody hilarious after we lose. Lots of chicken Little’s on here.

Oh I nearly forgot trade Gibbs!!

Its not the fact that we lost. Its how we lost. Top 4-6 teams don’t get belted by 10 goals

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Its not the fact that we lost. Its how we lost. Top 4-6 teams don’t get belted by 10 goals

Yeah, we are not up to it.

 

[windows1]

Wasn't Walsh out recently for stress related back injury too?

Way more likely to be caused by deadlifting. Insane that they deadlift but whatever.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Nathan Buckley said we would lose by 5 goals on Tuesday

There’s something fundamentally bad that the coaching fraternity know about us.

We wilt under pressure, do poorly one on one and get absolutely sliced in transition.

How many coast to coast scoring shots did we conceded last night ? I counted at least 4-5

What about out of the middle…between the dumb free kicks giving them first use or being absolutely bullied at the contest we had no clean possession coming out of the middle

We can’t spread, our mids rarely help out in defence.
Without Gov or Doc we have zero rebound off half back.

The forward line entires are amateurish at best.
Charlie and Harry don’t help when they contest for the same high ball.

Considering plan A is to bomb it long to the big boys, you would assume that we would have plenty of swift footed smalls waiting to pounce on the crumbs and get to work….

But alas the crows just walk the ball out and slingshot it forward at warp speed, putting the defence out of position rendering our zone useless.

FIX IT


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I reckon the coast-to-coast stuff was worse even than you've suggested. Uncontested mark, uncontested mark, uncontested mark - they just went end to end without us touching the ball so. Many. Times. Considering we added run to the side with Walsh and Acres, and subbed in another "quick" player in Honey for a slow ruckman, there really should not have been any excuse for us to be leaving open players in the corridor.

I will say that our mids did a lot of work helping out in defence. Probably cause that was the only part of the ground they could get a kick. Kennedy, Cerra, Walsh, Hewett, Acres, Hollands - all worked back. It didn't help...but they were trying.

The rebound off half back was atrocious. Too many blokes there who can't be trusted with ball in hand. Saad is good, Weiters and Newman are solid, but Cowan is very inexperienced, Young is poor and too prone to a short kick backwards to a teammate in a worse position, or worse, a handball to a player under immediate pressure. Then Plowman....yikes. Adelaide had two or three blokes they needed to shut down, and only one of them is quick off the mark. They just let us put the ball in the hands of the poor distributors and watched us give it back to them.

Good news is that loss should be a massive wake up call, and we've got another game against a similar style team next week that we can treat as an opportunity to redeem ourselves. Still need to make a few statement changes though, you cannot let that same 22 run out again next weekend.

 

[The Toad]

Its not the fact that we lost. Its how we lost. Top 4-6 teams don’t get belted by 10 goals

100% agree with you. I just find it funny how last year Voss was the messiah and now after 1 loss he isn’t the right man for the job.
Hope we learn something from last night. I have full faith in our coaches and the system they have in place.
I guess only time will tell.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

We lost last night before the bounce. It actually started last week at around the 20th minute of the last quarter when we had a 46 point lead over North and what should have been a 9+ thumping win badly morphed into a 23 point win.

We need a statement win. I watched the showdown a couple of weeks ago and that was Adelaide's. They played superbly against Port kicking the last 6 goals which has mentally fired them up and worked wonders for their confidence.

Our last statement win was mid last year against the Swans. There have been wins since but nothing as impressive as that was.

Round 1: We really stole that draw against the Tigers, we were outplayed on the night.
Round 2: Look it was a good win but we raced out to a 5 goal lead twice. If we went on with it and beat Geelong by 6-7 goals it would have really pushed a positive mental attitude on our players
Round 3: Scrappy ugly win against mediocre opposition
Round 4: One good quarter of footy where we beat them up on the inside and used the corridor.....against a team that won two games last year

I haven't lost faith in Voss and co yet but next week against St Kilda is our most important game for the year. I will not accept anything other than a statement win of 4-5 goals where we are in control, play direct footy and use our strength.

I simply do not not believe our team is not talented enough. Its there, we have seen it and we have played it. This is mental now, Vossy and Co must bring them up to speed mentally, unleash them against the Saints, show the critics that we are the real deal.

 

[branedotorg]

They’ve been pretty clear I reckon AG. “Get it in quick”. That’s about it. To do anything else (change angles, hit up on the 45 for example) require kicking and speed that we don’t have.

I don't necessarily mind get it in quick but the ball needs to be fast too.

How many of our kicks went higher than they did long? All that does is give extra time for the defence to make position.

 

[Coops93]

Really rough game. We were clearly not switched on right from the first bounce. I think it's official - we aren't a good travelling team.

They exposed just about every weakness of ours. If our big mids don't get first touch we can be had on the spread. We aren't a clean team, there's lots of 2 and 3 touch takes by our guys and few clean pickups. We aren't a skilled team, we bomb long and if we look for targets we often miss them.

However conversely, Adelaide looked unbelievably skilled. Their kicking has to be the best I've seen from any team this year, if not the past couple of years. The way they were hitting up targets was extraodinary.

We got the matchups wrong right from the start in D50. Weitering to Fogarty and Young to Walker was an awful call. Walker was always going to be too big, strong and aggressive for Young. I've never quite bought in on Young, for that reason, he's very much a finesse key position player and isn't aggressive and doesn't like the physical play. Putting him on Walker was a horrid call.

Fogarty was too nimble for Weiters. This isn't the Fogarty of old that moved like a dump truck, there's a reason he's started kicking goals.

We have a desperate dearth of goal kickers. Charlie and H aside, very few in our side are legitimate and consistent goal threats.

Our inside 50s are disgustingly bad and predictable.

We lack skill. Everyone knows this, but until we fix it we won't be winning a flag. Even our "skilled" players don't hit targets at the moment.

Cripps seems out of touch. He's fumbling and 2/3 grabbing the footy more than I've ever seen from him and is uncharacteristically missing inside handballs. He's also being pushed past the footy in the contest very easily. Probably hasn't quite been mentioned as we've won, but if we'd been losing everyone would be asking what's up with him.

Was good to see Walsh back and it was like he'd never left. I was concerned about his touch early but he blew me away - the handling of the footy was like he'd been playing all season. Great first game back by him.

As far as I'm concerned, all of our deficiencies that we knew about were all exposed quite extraordinarily by Adelaide. I didn't learn anything new about our team, but I did learn that all the deficiencies from the past couple of years are still there.

Also, Adelaide did what we don't do and showed the killer instinct at the end. They didn't let us get a few cheapies to go home with and feel good about ourselves, they kept pressing and stepped on us right to the end.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I’ve got it.
Sack Voss, trade Cripps, drop H or Charlie, bring in a few also rans from the VFL and we’ll be right.

This place is bloody hilarious after we lose. Lots of chicken Little’s on here.

Oh I nearly forgot trade Gibbs!!

It was the way we lost - with a bit of pressure and expectation we wilted and lost to an opposition allowed to play to the game their strengths - something that has happened time and time and time again…and indeed happened less than 12 months ago against the same opportunity in a similar setting…it shows we aren’t learning.

Some really worrying signs last night:
- the absolute ease with which their midfielders got free from our players be it jostling for position or breaking tackles
- leaders like Saad trying to take mark of the year in the first minute
- no plan from the coaches box to deal with a rampant Laird and Dawson
- playing players out of position like Kennedy half back and Hewett half forward
- wrong match ups in their forward line
- dumb decision making like TDK and Weitering knocking the ball back into dangerous areas in Adelaide’s forward 50

I think people also look at who could possibly come in to make us better and all they see is the often injured Gov, Marchy, Cunner, Martin - none of whom can be relied upon to play consistently let alone consistently well - so we have little chance but to back in blokes like Fisher, SOS, Honey, Plowman etc who most people rightly think aren’t good enough.

After 9 years of watching this painful rebuild - in which time Adelaide have gone up and down and now seemingly are on the up again faster than us - I think it’s only fair people start to vent their frustration.