Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

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Topiary said:
I would love Watson or

i would love Watson or Relean (who I understand we have spoken to) AS WELL AS Caddy, Curtin, Duursma. I hope we can get two top eight picks.
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Caddy/Curtain/Duursma and Delean is very doable. Could be a case of another Weddle (2nd + F2nd) just before McCabe, or buying a pick from a 10-15 pick holder. We won't need a top 10 pick for Delean, and if I'm putting tranches in the draft it'd be 1 Tier 1, 5 Tier 2, and 12 Tier 3 before they start dropping off. A top 15 pick gets you a good talent pretty much anywhere on the ground, there's a player for every position.
 
Steven Tyler said:
Beau Dowler at 6
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Good memory. When he played I thought he ended up being more like a really tall flanker than a KPP. But you’re right. Definitely recruited as a KPP.
 

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Chances we get Delean are slim. I reckon the Crows will be hard to beat unless he goes early. It's a wait and see thing because there could be some late bolters into the pick 10-25 range as there always seems to be. We must pick key position unless there's clearly the best talent left with our picks.
 
Hypothetical:

Under what circumstances would you trade next years first for GC first this year? ie would it have to be pick 8 or better? If it was pick 9/10 would you need a sweetener (2nd/3rd round pick)? Etc
 
Hawk1986 said:
Hypothetical:

Under what circumstances would you trade next years first for GC first this year? ie would it have to be pick 8 or better? If it was pick 9/10 would you need a sweetener (2nd/3rd round pick)? Etc
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Oooh that's actually a smart idea considering Sam said this'll be the last year we go to the draft. Hmm I think for me Pick 9 or better would be fine. I mean GC will probably get a higher pick in next year's draft, but we might be able to snare a good player who slides. But why would GC trade their pick? Does that benefit them in any way?
 
If we could somehow land both Caddy & Curtin in the same draft 😂 imagine that, it would be an insane coup! I think unless there's a clear standout player from the rest at whichever pick we choose after the first, we NEED to pick keys no matter what. It's no longer the need for Reid for us. It's the Need for Keys!
 
offtherails9 said:
It's funny how people can become so 'off' players when they're having injury problems. CJ's body has struggled all year, and his confidence has been shot because of it. Because of that his form has been poor, just like Worpel last year imo. They'll both be wearing medals for the brown and gold on the last Saturday in September this decade.
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Literally no-one said that they were “off” CJ.
 
DrAbs said:
Oooh that's actually a smart idea considering Sam said this'll be the last year we go to the draft. Hmm I think for me Pick 9 or better would be fine. I mean GC will probably get a higher pick in next year's draft, but we might be able to snare a good player who slides. But why would GC trade their pick? Does that benefit them in any way?
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Jed Walter becoming a top 5, possibly 3, prospect is why trading their pick will benefit them.

Hawk1986 said:
Hypothetical:

Under what circumstances would you trade next years first for GC first this year? ie would it have to be pick 8 or better? If it was pick 9/10 would you need a sweetener (2nd/3rd round pick)? Etc
Click to expand...
I think I would like something else coming back although I understand the future picks are speculative and in turn lose a little value.
If we could get GWS’ pick with a salary dump as well I think it would look better trading out F1 out. Three firsts and McCabe, no one needs a future first if we haul that in.
 
Hawk1986 said:
Hypothetical:

Under what circumstances would you trade next years first for GC first this year? ie would it have to be pick 8 or better? If it was pick 9/10 would you need a sweetener (2nd/3rd round pick)? Etc
Click to expand...
Why would GC do that trade when they need points points and more points for all their academy kids.

If we had 3 second rounders we’d be a chance.
 
Hawk1986 said:
Hypothetical:

Under what circumstances would you trade next years first for GC first this year? ie would it have to be pick 8 or better? If it was pick 9/10 would you need a sweetener (2nd/3rd round pick)? Etc
Click to expand...
Suns have 3 top 20 players this year and they have about 3400 points with their first 5 picks. Obviously depends on where the bids come, but hypothetically 2/8/15 is 5180 less 20% makes it about 4200 about so 800 points short which is about pick 23. Trading out their first at pick 9 removes 1469 points so approx 2300 to find. Hard to see how a side satisfies their current need and adds something to make it worth their while. Suns might simply burn their first on Walter after all they used their 2022 first essentially as toilet paper.
 
Corkie said:
ITK Suns poster said you offered a big contract at him last year, but he decided to see how this year played out.

Out of contract now & Suns haven’t opened extension talks with him… and may decide not to with Humphrey signing long-term.

Definitely gettable. But needs plenty of inside midfield minutes to thrive.
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Corkie what do you think the Suns would ask for in return? Draft points?
 
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burner1 said:
Reasonable question.

Williams Would be an upgrade on Morrison and bramble. Not as good as Amon but would still be likely our 2nd best wingman and in our best 25/26. Probably depends on where we see weddle ending up on field and where Ward plays etc. we have a huge group of inside mids but our outside mid stocks are relatively thin.
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Our upgrade on Bramble is Ward.! Full stop with an exclamation mark … written for emphasis.
 
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Brisbane were able to trade in Dunkley and still get the points required for Ashcroft & Fletcher.

The Suns won't have any issues with points.

Only question is do they look to trade out entirely from their current pick for a future pick or move up to get in before a bid for Walter.
 
It is hopefully the correct thread for it.

Let's assume, let's have a little look into the future.

Hawthorn gain Riccardi, there are some minor list changes but none too big, and are mainly of players who aren't competing currently for Best 23 positions.

Hawthorn go into the draft and trade up, they get Duursma with their first pick not selecting Caddy, they match a bid on McCabe and trade up for Archer Reid who falls in the draft.

A future side, which excludes the likes of Breust, Impey etc (a side with Amon/Sicily and a side without.)

NEAR FUTURE
Blake Hardwick - James Blanck - Seamus Mitchell
James Sicily - Denver Grainger-Barras - Jack Scrimshaw
Josh Weddle - Will Day - Karl Amon
Ned Reeves - Josh Ward - Jai Newcombe
Dylan Moore - Jake Riccardi - Connor MacDonald
Tyler Brockman - Mitch Lewis - Sam Butler

Interchange from.. Zane Duurmsa - Cam MacKenzie - James Worpel - Changkuoth Jiath - Conor Nash

Emergencies from... Cooper Stephens - Henry Hustwaite - Max Ramsden - Jacob Koschitzke - Ned Long - Lloyd Meek - Josh Bennetts

FAR FUTURE
Blake Hardwick - James Blanck - Will McCabe
Seamus Mitchell - Denver Grainger-Barras - Jack Scrimshaw
Josh Weddle - Will Day - Connor MacDonald
Ned Reeves - Josh Ward - Jai Newcombe
Dylan Moore - Archer Reid - Zane Duursma
Tyler Brockman - Mitch Lewis - Sam Butler

Interchange from.. Cam MacKenzie - James Worpel - Conor Nash - Changkuoth Jiath

Emergencies from... Jake Riccardi - Cooper Stephens - Henry Hustwaite - Max Ramsden - Jacob Koschitzke - Ned Long - Lloyd Meek - Josh Bennetts etc...

If we were to dissect this. (A little bit of hypothetical, a little bit of analysis)

KEY DEF:
James Blanck - Will McCabe - Denver Grainger-Barras

GEN DEF:
Changkuoth Jiath - Jack Scrimshaw

SMALL DEF:
Seamus Mitchell - Blake Hardwick - Bailey MacDonald - Josh Morris

INSIDE MID:
Henry Hustwaite - James Worpel - Conor Nash

BALANCED MID:
Jai Newcombe (IN/OUT MID-FWD) - Josh Ward (IN/OUT) - Cam MacKenzie (IN/OUT) - Will Day (MID-DEF-FWD)

WINGERS/OUTSIDE MID:
Harry Morrison - Lachie Bramble - ???? (Issue in regards to genuine wingman, Weddle is utility but likely a starting wingman).

RUCKMAN:
Ned Reeves - Lloyd Meek - Clay Tucker

KEY FWD:
Mitch Lewis - Archer Reid (???) - Jake Riccardi (??) - Jacob Koschitzke - Brandon Ryan

GEN/SMALL FWD:
Tyler Brockman - Jack O'Sullivan - Josh Bennetts

FWD/MID:
Sam Butler - Zane Duursma (?) - Connor MacDonald

UTILITY:
Max Ramsden (FWD/RUC) - Josh Weddle (MID/DEF) - Jai Serong (FWD/DEF)

EXPERIENCE (POS,AGE,TIME LEFT):
James Sicily (KEY/GEN DEF - 28 yo - 6+ years?) - Jarman Impey (GEN/SMALL DEF - 28 - 2/3+ years?) - Karl Amon (OUT MID - 28 - 5+ years?)

Not mentioned, Chad Wingard (little time left), Breust (little time left) both likely to retire within 1-2 years.

Looking at the breakdown, with ? being possibles. People can make their own assumptions about what we need, obviously it's looking 5+ years into the future in parts without knowing even the next draft so it's near impossible. It's also dependent on development, there's clear talent.

Key fwd stocks need to be improved via draft (Caddy/Reid) or Riccardi. Key def will be with McCabe and I am absolutely fine with how that sits.

Development means the teams i posted could 100% change aswell as who we recruit, but the teams look talented, pointed out in the Gold Coast preview on Fox Footy (Round 15 2023) that we are building an immense athletic profile. Endurance/power & speed. You can see it here, small forwards with speed, zip and xfactor, fwd/mids but mids that can also rotate forward with effect. Genuine inside midfielders aren't as needed in the game with so many high end balanced mids being so good at both. But our midfield depth is incredible to see, 10 mids (inside, outside and fwd/mid) who all could post claims to be starting in there.

It will be an exciting time very soon for Hawthorn.
 
Dominic03 said:
It is hopefully the correct thread for it.

Let's assume, let's have a little look into the future.

Hawthorn gain Riccardi, there are some minor list changes but none too big, and are mainly of players who aren't competing currently for Best 23 positions.

Hawthorn go into the draft and trade up, they get Duursma with their first pick not selecting Caddy, they match a bid on McCabe and trade up for Archer Reid who falls in the draft.

A future side, which excludes the likes of Breust, Impey etc (a side with Amon/Sicily and a side without.)

NEAR FUTURE
Blake Hardwick - James Blanck - Seamus Mitchell
James Sicily - Denver Grainger-Barras - Jack Scrimshaw
Josh Weddle - Will Day - Karl Amon
Ned Reeves - Josh Ward - Jai Newcombe
Dylan Moore - Jake Riccardi - Connor MacDonald
Tyler Brockman - Mitch Lewis - Sam Butler

Interchange from.. Zane Duurmsa - Cam MacKenzie - James Worpel - Changkuoth Jiath - Conor Nash

Emergencies from... Cooper Stephens - Henry Hustwaite - Max Ramsden - Jacob Koschitzke - Ned Long - Lloyd Meek - Josh Bennetts

FAR FUTURE
Blake Hardwick - James Blanck - Will McCabe
Seamus Mitchell - Denver Grainger-Barras - Jack Scrimshaw
Josh Weddle - Will Day - Connor MacDonald
Ned Reeves - Josh Ward - Jai Newcombe
Dylan Moore - Archer Reid - Zane Duursma
Tyler Brockman - Mitch Lewis - Sam Butler

Interchange from.. Cam MacKenzie - James Worpel - Conor Nash - Changkuoth Jiath

Emergencies from... Jake Riccardi - Cooper Stephens - Henry Hustwaite - Max Ramsden - Jacob Koschitzke - Ned Long - Lloyd Meek - Josh Bennetts etc...

If we were to dissect this. (A little bit of hypothetical, a little bit of analysis)

KEY DEF:
James Blanck - Will McCabe - Denver Grainger-Barras

GEN DEF:
Changkuoth Jiath - Jack Scrimshaw

SMALL DEF:
Seamus Mitchell - Blake Hardwick - Bailey MacDonald - Josh Morris

INSIDE MID:
Henry Hustwaite - James Worpel - Conor Nash

BALANCED MID:
Jai Newcombe (IN/OUT MID-FWD) - Josh Ward (IN/OUT) - Cam MacKenzie (IN/OUT) - Will Day (MID-DEF-FWD)

WINGERS/OUTSIDE MID:
Harry Morrison - Lachie Bramble - ???? (Issue in regards to genuine wingman, Weddle is utility but likely a starting wingman).

RUCKMAN:
Ned Reeves - Lloyd Meek - Clay Tucker

KEY FWD:
Mitch Lewis - Archer Reid (???) - Jake Riccardi (??) - Jacob Koschitzke - Brandon Ryan

GEN/SMALL FWD:
Tyler Brockman - Jack O'Sullivan - Josh Bennetts

FWD/MID:
Sam Butler - Zane Duursma (?) - Connor MacDonald

UTILITY:
Max Ramsden (FWD/RUC) - Josh Weddle (MID/DEF) - Jai Serong (FWD/DEF)

EXPERIENCE (POS,AGE,TIME LEFT):
James Sicily (KEY/GEN DEF - 28 yo - 6+ years?) - Jarman Impey (GEN/SMALL DEF - 28 - 2/3+ years?) - Karl Amon (OUT MID - 28 - 5+ years?)

Not mentioned, Chad Wingard (little time left), Breust (little time left) both likely to retire within 1-2 years.

Looking at the breakdown, with ? being possibles. People can make their own assumptions about what we need, obviously it's looking 5+ years into the future in parts without knowing even the next draft so it's near impossible. It's also dependent on development, there's clear talent.

Key fwd stocks need to be improved via draft (Caddy/Reid) or Riccardi. Key def will be with McCabe and I am absolutely fine with how that sits.

Development means the teams i posted could 100% change aswell as who we recruit, but the teams look talented, pointed out in the Gold Coast preview on Fox Footy (Round 15 2023) that we are building an immense athletic profile. Endurance/power & speed. You can see it here, small forwards with speed, zip and xfactor, fwd/mids but mids that can also rotate forward with effect. Genuine inside midfielders aren't as needed in the game with so many high end balanced mids being so good at both. But our midfield depth is incredible to see, 10 mids (inside, outside and fwd/mid) who all could post claims to be starting in there.

It will be an exciting time very soon for Hawthorn.
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Great work.. I love your effort.
 
FB19 said:
On talent absolutely but positionally I wouldn’t say that they are different players. I’m no bramble fan but he’s a line breaker Ward is a balanced mid.
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Ward is one of our most productive players at VFL level but he rarely affects the result.
So I guess I agree. Ward needs to get back to his talent = not first in, but go in with an out in mind.
Ward needs to watch Nick Daicos… because Ward has many of the tools to be that good.
 
Alite said:
Ward is one of our most productive players at VFL level but he rarely affects the result.
So I guess I agree. Ward needs to get back to his talent = not first in, but go in with an out in mind.
Ward needs to watch Nick Daicos… because Ward has many of the tools to be that good.
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I look at Ward as having the potential to be a 75% Zach Merrett. If he achieves that we will be very happy despite being a member of the scum he’s a star.
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
Why would GC do that trade when they need points points and more points for all their academy kids.

If we had 3 second rounders we’d be a chance.
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Assumption is they will use there already multiple second/third/fourth rounders instead of there first (and have to gain more). From memory, most clubs have either tried to trade up or out in similar scenarios (albeit maybe unique with 3 first rounders).

Sam Edmund discusses it here.



I’m strongly considering it for a top 6 pick
 
A1fromDay1 said:
Brisbane were able to trade in Dunkley and still get the points required for Ashcroft & Fletcher.

The Suns won't have any issues with points.

Only question is do they look to trade out entirely from their current pick for a future pick or move up to get in before a bid for Walter.
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Cal Twomey said on radio if it was an open pool, a few clubs might consider Walter at 1. So I think suns will need pick 2 or 3 to make it happen (and at the moment, pick 3 might be a risk)
 
FB19 said:
I look at Ward as having the potential to be a 75% Zach Merrett. If he achieves that we will be very happy despite being a member of the scum he’s a star.
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I think that’s very achievable, he’s had a few interruptions over the last 2 years with the concussion and foot issue. With the way our midfield has preformed most of this year, young guys like Ward and McKenzie who have played as true midfielders in the junior years will have time to continue to develop their game… and be quality contributors to our next wave of success. Time to add some X factor and KPP’s to the list now.
 
Slysh said:
Imagine watching that team all year and not even walking away with Reid. Would be a big Yikes
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Getting WA talent like Curtin will surely be high on their list of wants. I'm not sure they'll want to take the risk on elite interstate talent committing to a hard rebuild.
 
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