Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[FB19]

Flanders, sharp, davies, future 2 traded in and future 3 traded in.

Flanders and Davies aren’t going anywhere. sharp is worth as much as my personal trainer. What do futures have to do with anything for the 2023 draft?

 

[FB19]

That is the equivalent of three picks in the 30s, they will be able to get those in by trading a future 2nd for a pick in the mid 30s and 40s this year that will get them almost 800 points.

Then they can get extra points by trading out of picks 26 and 29.

For example trading pick 26 for 35 and 40 would net them an extra 300 points.

The Suns will make plenty of trades like that to cover the shortfall.

So our ability to secure suns first is totally dependent on them doing all those things. That’s not a strategy. As I’ve said a lot, suns need to end up with enough points for matching without pick 5 and some decent improvement on their 2024 hand. We can’t offer them the former at the moment so we either hope (as you have outlined) or we need to get in a decent pick to package with dogs second. If they get enough points to match then who gets their pick 5 comes down to the strongest 2024 offer. If we are prepared to offer our first (to me would need something back like their second) then we are in a very strong position to secure it.

 

[TylerDurden]

I'd do for a F1.

 

[burger09]

I'd do for a F1.

Would turbo charge the list overhaul.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

The gold coast first round pick is the most gettable top 5 pick in the history of the draft.

No team will have a better asset to offer the suns than our future first.

Get it done, whatever it takes Duursma & Watson.

One small problem. Pick 5 is worth 1878 points, where are they getting those points from that they need for the 3 academy players?

Our F1 for Dees picks 17*& 23* or Crows picks 20* & 24* on traded to the Suns with pick 32* for pick 5. This is our last big National draft before we go hard next with trades and free agents to fill list gap needs in 12 months time. The emergence of a Ramsden, Ryan, DGB or maybe McCabe sooner than expected can quickly change the landscape in terms of list needs.
Pick 3 Duursma and Pick 5 Watson would give us what we don’t have and desperately need - X factor up forward moving forward. If Brocky goes home we go hard for Flying Ryan!

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Doing all those things? Every club that has a high academy pick has done those things everytime. Go have a look at how the lions managed to bring in Ashcroft & Fletcher while trading in Dunkley.

That is not a maybe the Suns will definitely do that.

The suns ALREADY have enough points to match all three academy players if they just keep their picks as is.

So why in gods name would the Suns trade their current first pick just for more points this year when they already have enough???

Because Pick 5 is useless to them! Pretty simple really. More points is all they want.

 

[FB19]

Doing all those things? Every club that has a high academy pick has done those things everytime. Go have a look at how the lions managed to bring in Ashcroft & Fletcher while trading in Dunkley.

That is not a maybe the Suns will definitely do that.

The suns ALREADY have enough points to match all three academy players if they just keep their picks as is.

So why in gods name would the Suns trade their current first pick just for more points this year when they already have enough???

Yes I agree they wouldn’t. That’s why they want to use it for both purposes, similar points and an improvement to 2024. Of course they can get the points in a variety of ways but pick 5 can be used to achieve both objectives. my main point is that our only chance to get pick 5 is if they get matching points without trading it and without multiple second round picks, it’s very much out of our control. they could also simply as you say just burn the pick. They used pick 7 effectively as toilet paper last year after all. Also most of their trades will be lined up but not executed until the night to reduce the number of open list spots they need at the start of the draft.

Put simply if we get another decent second round pick in and offer suns that,
dogs second and our first for their second I believe that would get the deal done. That’s much simpler and more within our control. Would you do that trade?

 

[triple treat]

Thoughts on this, since there’s noise on B king!
Eagles trade pick 1 to GC
Hawks pick 3 and Dogs second rounder to Eagles
Eagles pick 19 to Hawks
Hawks future 1st to GC
GC pick 5 to Eagles
B King to Hawks
Hawks out pick 3 pick 30ish and future 1st
Hawks in pick 19 and B king
Eagles out pick 1 and pick 19
Eagles in pick 3 pick 5 and pick 30ish
GC out B King and pick 5
GC in pick 1 and future 1st
Who’s paying to much or to little?

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

My point is they already have enough points, so when they trade pick 5 it will be for a future first.

They will make the shortfall up by trading a future 2nd and manoeuvring their lower picks.

Would you rather trade a top 5 pick for points or a future 2nd?

It should be a easy decision

Fair point. Pick 5 for our F1 would make perfect sense to them if they believe they have the necessary points to cover this years bids. We could throw in pick 32* also with a F2 or F3 coming back our way.

 

[Colloquy]

The gold coast first round pick is the most gettable top 5 pick in the history of the draft.

No team will have a better asset to offer the suns than our future first.

Get it done, whatever it takes Duursma & Watson.

No thanks we must keep our first and second

 

[A1fromDay1]

Yes I agree they wouldn’t. That’s why they want to use it for both purposes, similar points and an improvement to 2024. Of course they can get the points in a variety of ways but pick 5 can be used to achieve both objectives. my main point is that our only chance to get pick 5 is if they get matching points without trading it and without multiple second round picks, it’s very much out of our control. they could also simply as you say just burn the pick. They used pick 7 effectively as toilet paper last year after all. Also most of their trades will be lined up but not executed until the night to reduce the number of open list spots they need at the start of the draft.

Put simply if we get another decent second round pick in and offer suns that,
dogs second and our first for their second I believe that would get the deal done. That’s much simpler and more within our control. Would you do that trade?

Pick 5 & Future 3rd for Future 1st and pick 30 is the most I'd go.

That leaves them with a shortfall of 1000 points which they can easily make up by trading a future 2nd for a pick in the 30s and 40s.

It gives the suns their 3 academy players this year and sets them up with 2 top 10 picks next year.

We then ontrade that future 3rd to the dockers and a pick swap for Liam Henry.

 

[Colloquy]

Would turbo charge the list overhaul.

What would turbo charge the list is to get a second future 1st next year to go with our one.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What would turbo charge the list is to get a second future 1st next year to go with our one.

Yeah, why would we want a young star key forward when we could just get another draft pick and hope they are going to be as good.

 

[VandoHawk]

The cost on King would be the headache. For a future first I’d do it in a heartbeat but I feel like Gold Coast would want more.

 

[Nugett]

Thoughts on this, since there’s noise on B king!
Eagles trade pick 1 to GC
Hawks pick 3 and Dogs second rounder to Eagles
Eagles pick 19 to Hawks
Hawks future 1st to GC
GC pick 5 to Eagles
B King to Hawks
Hawks out pick 3 pick 30ish and future 1st
Hawks in pick 19 and B king
Eagles out pick 1 and pick 19
Eagles in pick 3 pick 5 and pick 30ish
GC out B King and pick 5
GC in pick 1 and future 1st
Who’s paying to much or to little?

I would rather wait til next year for Ben King when he is out of contract. Put an offer too good to refuse, that makes it harder for Gold Coast to match. put up 2025 first rounder + 2024 second round as a trade. By waiting next year we should be able to get him cheaper at the trade table. By trying for him this year, we will spend a lot, that compromises this year’s draft. This year our main focus should be the draft, than reasonable free agents that fill a need, followed by cheap available trades.

 

[chopflop]

Flanders and Davies aren’t going anywhere. sharp is worth as much as my personal trainer. What do futures have to do with anything for the 2023 draft?

You can trade them into this draft. They can trade their future 2 and their future 3 for picks in this year's draft. They can trade surplus players for picks also.

 

[extractasam]

The cost on King would be the headache. For a future first I’d do it in a heartbeat but I feel like Gold Coast would want more.

There’s no chance GC even entertain that. If we had B.King and they thought that would get the deal done we would be pissing ourselves laughing

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The cost on King would be the headache. For a future first I’d do it in a heartbeat but I feel like Gold Coast would want more.

I think it's more likely we really come hard for him in 2024.

 

[Topiary]

The cost on King would be the headache. For a future first I’d do it in a heartbeat but I feel like Gold Coast would want more.

Absolutely.

 

[FB19]

Pick 5 & Future 3rd for Future 1st and pick 30 is the most I'd go.

That leaves them with a shortfall of 1000 points which they can easily make up by trading a future 2nd for a pick in the 30s and 40s.

It gives the suns their 3 academy players this year and sets them up with 2 top 10 picks next year.

We then ontrade that future 3rd to the dockers and a pick swap for Liam Henry.

I just think there are teams with strong hands that can make better offers potentially so we might have to overpay but I think tilts worth it if that secured Duursma and Watson

 

[FB19]

You can trade them into this draft. They can trade their future 2 and their future 3 for picks in this year's draft. They can trade surplus players for picks also.

Agree. Not sure they need to give up that much though I think they are more likely to go the surplus players path as you say but I don’t see that being Flanders or Davies. Of course it’s just an opinion.

 

[A1fromDay1]

I just think there are teams with strong hands that can make better offers potentially so we might have to overpay but I think tilts worth it if that secured Duursma and Watson

No team can offer a better asset than our future first.

 

[FB19]

Absolutely.

What do Suns need that we can offer to get King? Surely they don’t need more draft picks even high end ones given all they’ve had, their academy haul this year and their willingness to burn pick 7 last year. Unless that translates to a player. Their list holes would seem to be kpf which we won’t help with, midfield and running hbf. Weller and Powell constantly injured. I don’t think we have much to offer outside CJ how far would he bridge the gap to getting King?

 

[FB19]

No team can offer a better asset than our future first.

How shite do you think we are going to be next year? If st kilda slide as their talent would suggest they can offer similar contract, draft pick and his brother. And you know how much we rate bringing players home based on who they grew up supporting…You might be right but I don’t think it is a sure as you think. At least I hope not!