Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[Coburghawk]

Isn’t Jed Walter from WA and only recently moved to GC. Hardly even a qld talent.

If by recent you mean 9 years ago, then sure. Moved to the Gold Coast at 9 years old. I think they developed him ok.

 

[AussieToffee15]

Stephenson had a very good start to his AFL career.

Duursma definitely has high upside. But I also see huge bust potential. It’s concerning to me he’s not dominated in the midfield. Seems like the sort of player that will only play well in space. Can be very hard to get that space at AFL level.

Still a talented player but with such a high draft pick I’d prefer we went with the players who are much more likely to come on e.g. Watson or McKercher.

My concern exactly. Has a tiny bit of the Jack Watts about him. Has all the skill in the world, but does he lack the grit?

Whereas with Watson, he has had to prove himself the whole way, always too small, but always made it. He has the fight instilled in him.

 

[Yardie]

The game needs QLD kids playing for big teams in big games at the MCG. That will inspire the QLD kids to pursue AFL when they watch on TV, not going to GC games with 2000 people made up of rent a crowd and family and friends.

No, the competition needs QLD to have big teams and big games in QLD. Just like we have in Vic, WA & SA.

 

[Platten44]

......

No, the competition needs QLD to have big teams and big games in QLD. Just like we have in Vic, WA & SA.

and they can build their teams through the draft, trades and free agency just like those VIC, WA and SA teams
it's a national comp and as it stands we could never get a Shane Crawford or Jason Dunstall to play for Hawthorn under the current rules

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

Stephenson had a very good start to his AFL career.

Duursma definitely has high upside. But I also see huge bust potential. It’s concerning to me he’s not dominated in the midfield. Seems like the sort of player that will only play well in space. Can be very hard to get that space at AFL level.

Still a talented player but with such a high draft pick I’d prefer we went with the players who are much more likely to come on e.g. Watson or McKercher.

I'm completely the opposite, if anyone's a bigger bust risk it's clearly Watson. The 'wizard' plays some blinders but when he's not 'on' he's ineffective and at AFL level that's a liability.

Further, upside is exactly what most kids are drafted on. We did precisely that with Weddle as the most recent example.
Duursma has enormous upside - Watson, for all his gifts - doesn't. We've seen what he can do, yes it's brilliant but not always 'on' as I said.

 

[user33]

With this talk of a key defender. I’m not sure what it says about Blanck.

Can we play Sicily, Blanck and Esava/McKay? That’s going to leave us very open to fast ball movement and leads.

Melbourne are the only team that makes 3 tall backs work but they also have May and Lever as two of them.

I think Sicily is optimised in the third defender role, which allows him to set up our scores from intercepts.

Similar to how Gibson played third tall to 2 of Frawley/Lake/Stratton.

 

[Yardie]

......

and they can build their teams through the draft, trades and free agency just like those VIC, WA and SA teams
it's a national comp and as it stands we could never get a Shane Crawford or Jason Dunstall to play for Hawthorn under the current rules

We are trying to build up the grassroots in two states. It takes time and you need to provide some incentives along the journey.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I am not as concerned as others about our draft picks. They usually sort themselves out. These generational players are touted just about every year. Just work with the players you have and build your premiership side. I mean GWS and GCS should have won many premierships by now

And North finishes bottom four again. People that follow clubs that struggle believe it is the high draft picks that lead to Premierships. Until they finally realise they are not when their clubs fail after gorging on them with umpteenth picks.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I'm completely the opposite, if anyone's a bigger bust risk it's clearly Watson. The 'wizard' plays some blinders but when he's not 'on' he's ineffective and at AFL level that's a liability.

Further, upside is exactly what most kids are drafted on. We did precisely that with Weddle as the most recent example.
Duursma has enormous upside - Watson, for all his gifts - doesn't. We've seen what he can do, yes it's brilliant but not always 'on' as I said.

I can assure Duursma has been 'not on' much more than the Wiz he has been much more consistent

 

[H00t]

I'm completely the opposite, if anyone's a bigger bust risk it's clearly Watson. The 'wizard' plays some blinders but when he's not 'on' he's ineffective and at AFL level that's a liability.

Further, upside is exactly what most kids are drafted on. We did precisely that with Weddle as the most recent example.
Duursma has enormous upside - Watson, for all his gifts - doesn't. We've seen what he can do, yes it's brilliant but not always 'on' as I said.

The further away from pick 1 the draft pick is the more it becomes purely about upside or elite traits.

At the earlier picks players are typically much more rounded.

As for Watson he’s playing a small forward role. Even at AFL level the better small forwards have a number of ineffective games. It goes with the territory.

I’d say Duursma and Watson have the same upside potential. Both could be top players.

I’m hoping we get McKercher but need North to not get pick 2 for that to happen.

 

[H00t]

And North finishes bottom four again. People that follow clubs that struggle believe it is the high draft picks that lead to Premierships. Until they finally realise they are not when their clubs fail after gorging on them with umpteenth picks.

It’s a combo of getting in good players and developing them. Norths drafting is bad and their development is worse.

Give any other club (outside suns and GWS) the draft picks they’ve had though and that team would be a powerhouse.

 

[I got the outside word]

I'm completely the opposite, if anyone's a bigger bust risk it's clearly Watson. The 'wizard' plays some blinders but when he's not 'on' he's ineffective and at AFL level that's a liability.

Further, upside is exactly what most kids are drafted on. We did precisely that with Weddle as the most recent example.
Duursma has enormous upside - Watson, for all his gifts - doesn't. We've seen what he can do, yes it's brilliant but not always 'on' as I said.

I don’t follow it that hard and I’m probably wrong but it seemed a few games that Watson ‘wasn’t on’ he still managed to kick goals in purple patches, I think he kicked 4 in a ‘not on’ game.

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

I don’t follow it that hard and I’m probably wrong but it seemed a few games that Watson ‘wasn’t on’ he still managed to kick goals in purple patches, I think he kicked 4 in a ‘not on’ game.

At AFL you're not going to be gifted those four goals and your team gets burnt.
As for Duursma being 'not on' more times than Watson, sorry but I've watched most matches throughout this year - in fact I watch more 'draft' matches - Colts, VFL, Championships than I do AFL and Duursma has been the far more damaging player and has almost always affected a game.

 

[hfc70]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Averages less turnovers than McKay, almost 10% better efficiency by foot. Attends more 1:1s, loses less, almost 2x the amount of spoils. Personally I've got a lot more faith in the defensive ability of the bloke coming from the best defensive side in the comp than I do in the one coming from the second worst.

Fair enough. I don’t watch Saints games too much. My mates go most of the time, so I will back their judgement.

Howard has the added benefit of Wilke, Battle and co , with pretty good midfield, helping out.

McKay has …..not a lot of support both defensively or from the midfield

Anyway, just offering my thoughts. He’d probably be an upgrade on Frost

 

[nickrebellious]

I read that Duursma is an aerial threat. I haven't seen him play, but can he play third tall up forward or is he more of midfielder/general forward?

I think we're after that third tall forward marking threat after attempts Langford and Henry last year and signing Greene this year.

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

Fair enough. I don’t watch Saints games too much. My mates go most of the time, so I will back their judgement.

Howard has the added benefit of Wilke, Battle and co , with pretty good midfield, helping out.

McKay has …..not a lot of support both defensively or from the midfield

Anyway, just offering my thoughts. He’d probably be an upgrade on Frost

He's a definite upgrade on Frost ('Frostball' still gives me nightmares) and at 25 he's entering his prime years now. If, and I stress IF, we could get a KPD and still preserve our pick it's a no-brainer for mine. We should definitely have our hats in the ring.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I read that Duursma is an aerial threat. I haven't seen him play, but can he play third tall up forward or is he more of midfielder/general forward?

I think we're after that third tall forward marking threat after attempts Langford and Henry last year and signing Greene this year.

Greene doesn’t have a contract for next year.

Duursma more of a mid/general forward. I see him as a Ryan O’Keefe type.

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

I read that Duursma is an aerial threat. I haven't seen him play, but can he play third tall up forward or is he more of midfielder/general forward?

I think we're after that third tall forward marking threat after attempts Langford and Henry last year and signing Greene this year.

Duursma has played predominantly back & forward. He's a true swingman in that he's effective as a marking, rebounding defender and a mobile marking forward target.
He has gone through the middle on enough occasions to get Cal and others waxing on about his Burgoyne similarity (he is very smooth) but his true worth is at either end.

 

[TheFourPillars]

At AFL you're not going to be gifted those four goals and your team gets burnt.
As for Duursma being 'not on' more times than Watson, sorry but I've watched most matches throughout this year - in fact I watch more 'draft' matches - Colts, VFL, Championships than I do AFL and Duursma has been the far more damaging player and has almost always affected a game.

I am sorry u sound a bit biased no one gets gifted goals and there is a bit of recency bias in Duursma's ranking.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Duursma has more upside than Watson.

Ultimately Watson will be limited by his size, it's just that simple.

 

[killerspud]

Duursma sounds very similar to Will Day....so that's a massive yes from me. Having said that if we can somehow get another top 10 pick then I'd love to have them both

 

[chopflop]

Duursma plays like the skipper, just at the other end

 

[TheFourPillars]

Duursma plays like the skipper, just at the other end

Interesting comparison given that Sic started as a forward

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

I am sorry u sound a bit biased no one gets gifted goals and there is a bit of recency bias in Duursma's ranking.

I think you see it as bias because I have a different p.o.v than your own. I'm sorry you think that way but my post was objective, outlining what those players can and can't do.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think you see it as bias because I have a different p.o.v than your own. I'm sorry you think that way but my post was objective, outlining what those players can and can't do.

It's the language you used mate not your point of view. For instance he won't be "Gifted" those goals at AFL level. I could say the same for Durrsma because when he did play VFL he didn't get gifted any goals or take any marks. They are both very talented. A lot of ppl have their favourites and u can see that in the players in the current Hawthorn team. Some can do no wrong while others are not worthy of a list spot

As an aside i am not hooked on either player. If we get Duursma great if we choose the Wiz also great