Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[Blackhawk42]

Jason Horne-Francis was hyped very similarly to Harley Ried.

So ask yourself, would you have been happy trading DGB, Brockman, Ward and Mackenzie at the end of 2021 just to select him in the draft?

Bontempelli is the best player in the AFL and the best leader in the AFL, and him being a generational player on his own does nothing to help the Bulldogs because their depth is weaker.

You don't trade 4 players for 1
Even 3.

 

[Mercy Seat]

You will have to help me understand what that means. West coast have pick 1 then 19. If west coast pick Reid they won’t get Curtin.

What it means is, WC aren’t going to be happy to trade away pick 1 unless they get pick 2 and guarantee Curtin. So that means as others have said, we’d have to deal with North as well. Which I just cannot see happening.

They’re as desperate for Reid as anyone, and have plenty of leverage to get a deal done with pick 2 and the Curtin scenario. Hypotheticals like throwing up Scrimshaw (who’s staying), won’t come close to cutting it.

 

[Colloquy]

If we can get Reid without selling the farm then we absolutely do it. Getting Reid while building a winning culture and attacking game plan would be an immensely big win for 2023 as a whole.

Pick 3, DGB and Brockman for Pick 1 - I’d pull the trigger on that every day of the week.

It’s not that of a trade Pick 3 and DGB and Brockman when you think about it.

WC list is that bad and needs a lot of work if and I think could turn out better then North’s and Melbourne’s two first round pick trade as if WC do our trade then spilt pick 3 for two first round picks which probably won’t be as high but then they get 4 players for that one pick that could help there rebuild.

 

[FB19]

Not sure how 3 and a speculative pick next year when we are an improving side (no way known do I think we are likely to have a top 5 pick next year) will be better than Norf being able to offer 2 and Port’s first along with their 1st next year that would absolutely be a top 5 pick. If Norf also get a priority pick at 3 their hand instantly becomes the strongest.

Brockman and DGB absolutely move the needle for them - West Coast need players who can come in and play now as well as picks. I think a combination of picks and players is what would get West Coast’s attention rather than picks alone. The last thing West Coast need this year is another 4 18 year olds not ready for senior footy having to play next year.

No one had mentioned norths f1 that wins I agree. I disagree they move the needle much but I could be wrong. No contract brockman shown little DGB if they weren’t WA boys it wouldn’t be a conversation. Anyway we differ in our views yours are more helpful to the hawks than mine so I defer to you and hope I am wrong!

 

[FB19]

What it means is, WC aren’t going to be happy to trade away pick 1 unless they get pick 2 and guarantee Curtin. So that means as others have said, we’d have to deal with North as well. Which I just cannot see happening.

They’re as desperate for Reid as anyone, and have plenty of leverage to get a deal done with pick 2 and the Curtin scenario. Hypotheticals like throwing up Scrimshaw (who’s staying), won’t come close to cutting it.

West coast aren’t trading pick 1. Unless north offer 2/3. Take that to the bank. 2 and ports frost which will be about 20 is a joke.

 

[danielG]

West coast aren’t trading pick 1. Unless north offer 2/3. Take that to the bank.

Is that an opinion or is this info you’ve come across ? North would be stupid to make that trade..

 

[Colloquy]

Funnily enough, the trade we did netted ys two generational talents

Croad and Luke McPharlin were traded to the Dockers, in exchange for pick one (Hodge), pick 20 (Daniel Elstone) and pick 36 (Sam Mitchell).

And IF only we used that 20 on one of the other players that’s that was a great player from that draft there were so many stars.

It could have been a even better draft but you can’t pick them all.

 

[FB19]

Is that an opinion or is this info you’ve come across ? North would be stupid to make that trade..

I am not an ITK. It’s common sense. It was OTT to highlight eagles aren’t trading pick 1 for some of the nonsense floating around especially from north fans.

 

[Colloquy]

I agree that WC will want pick 2 for Curtin.

If Hawthorn want Harley, other sacrifices will need to be made. For example... If North ask us about Scrimshaw, we tell them pick 2 for 3 is an essential part of the deal. Hopefully we get another pick as well
Then we can hold the carrot WCE will want.

I also agree with you that Harley would be great but a Duursma /Watson combo would also be excellent.

Not sure they will do that as doing this trade takes away there chance of getting pick 1

 

[tl92]

Anyone thinking north would offer pick 2 and 3 and/or a F1 for pick 1 is delusional. If west coast are lucky, best case they get ports 1st thrown in. Either west coast want reid and they take him or they don’t and their bargaining power is low because they want Curtin and he’ll go at 2 or 3.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

If North are serious, they’ll be telling WC to deal with them for pick 1 or they’ll pick Curtin. It’s that’s simple.

Straying off topic, but WCE have the potential to keep Reid and get a homesick Curtin. I don't see North taking that risk, nor WCE trading now. Reid could put in a monster two years and the price is even more expensive than today.

Personally, we need to stay out of it and pick best available. We are going to get a great player.

 

[sven_inc]

4 players for 1.

Some of you are ******* nuts.

I'd be happy to consider it if we could get another first rounder somehow in a salary dump to buffer it.

Also, I think a great way to look at a scenario like this isn't necessarily 4 for 1. On the surface it is, but realistically it's 4 players out (DGB, Brockman, Pick 3, F1) and then 4 players in to fill those list spots.

It's likely those other 3 will just come later in the draft on balance. Are we good enough to find another Moore, Lewis, Worpel again this year?

Would it be more palatable if it were:
DGB, Brockman, Watson, F1 for Reid, Moore, Lewis, Worpel?

It's an interesting thought I think and something to consider.

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[lethalselbow]

If North are serious, they’ll be telling WC to deal with them for pick 1 or they’ll pick Curtin. It’s that’s simple. There’ll be a lot of speculative bullshit for the next few months, but at the end of the day, WC are fairly restricted in what they can pull off here as they’re desperate for Curtin. If they’re willing to look past him, then it opens things up for them with other clubs including us. But I just can’t see it happening.

I’d love Reid at the right price, but as others have pointed out, if we could get Duursma and Watson at the exact same price, I know who I’m picking.

So West Coast have to wait one year before he requests a trade. Big deal. Kangaroos don't/ can't pick interstaters again.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I'd be happy to consider it if we could get another first rounder somehow in a salary dump to buffer it.

Also, I think a great way to look at a scenario like this isn't necessarily 4 for 1. On the surface it is, but realistically it's 4 players out (DGB, Brockman, Pick 3, F1) and then 4 players in to fill those list spots.

It's likely those other 3 will just come later in the draft on balance. Are we good enough to find another Moore, Lewis, Worpel again this year?

Would it be more palatable if it were:
DGB, Brockman, Watson, F1 for Reid, Moore, Lewis, Worpel?

It's an interesting thought I think and something to consider.

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I think this is relying wayy too hard on speccy picks that most likely won't ever play a game to be a real strategy. that same list could be james Cousins, Jeka and Morris (no offense intended to any of these players but I think we can agree none "made it").

i find it a bit odd that some balked at the idea of trading our f1 to get across established talents like Baz or King but the same concerns don't apply to a bloke who hasn't played a game and most ppl have only watched him play via like ten mins of highlights vs kids

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

To those advocating for the Pick 1 trade….

Sure you could be trading away the chance to select Keiran Lovell and Dylan Stephen alongside DGB and Brocky to land Harley Reid, but you may also be trading away Rankine and Butters.

This place would be unbearable if DGB and Brockman alone hit their straps on a return home, let alone should we hand two stars to the Eagles on top of that.

Like I said, it’s ****ing nuts. Particular for a side like ours still wanting to add talent, it would be a step backwards.

 

[Dewnior]

I'd happily trade pick 3 and a F1 for pick 1 but not our future 1st.

I'd be upping the contract value for McKay to net Norf a 1st round compo pick on an agreement that they do not take Curtain with either pick 2 or 3. Then do the deal with Eagles for pick 1.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

To those advocating for the Pick 1 trade….

Sure you could be trading away the chance to select Keiran Lovell and Dylan Stephen alongside DGB and Brocky to land Harley Reid, but you may also be trading away Rankine and Butters.

This place would be unbearable if DGB and Brockman alone hit their straps on a return home, let alone should we hand two stars to the Eagles on top of that.

Like I said, it’s ducking nuts. Particular for a side like ours still wanting to add talent, it would be a step backwards.

I think this is the absolute opportune time to take this kind of risk though. We have a good deal of good young players now. Yes we need a good KPP but it doesn’t look like we are adding it this year and from what I’ve read the draft next year is heavy on midfielders. We can look to get the KPP via free agency maybe in 2024 or 2025 when we are looking to be in contention again. I think with our exciting youff right now you just need to add that piece to take them over the edge - if Harley is worth it then you do it. Brockman is gone anyway so we can’t get stroppy about trading him. DGB might come good but is he really going to be the next Lake or Franklin at either end? Next year’s pick I am hoping will be past pick 10 so might not be as crazy valuable as the picks we’ve had the last 3-4 years. We can also buy picks in future years with our salary cap freedom.

If Reid is as good as everyone says then now is the perfect time to go for it for mine.

 

[Burtman]

Reid will be a gun, but he isn’t the best mid, forward or back in this draft. I’m not even giving up 2 firsts for him. Especially as we’ll still be the youngest team in the league next year, and history suggests those sorts of team finish bottom 4. Let’s not get sucked into our late season form and think we’re going to improve dramatically, there’s been a few seasons lately where we’ve finished in the flourish then shit the bed the first half of the next season

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

I’d cope with our 1st pick of 2024, Brockman, DGB and a future second pick for Reid.

For all those under selling DGB if he was being played on a hbf we’d be seeing a decent player.
Personally I feel the club is looking to move DGB on as we have to many of his kind and it removes the go home factor at a later date.

All reports in previous draft years stated the eagles were interested in DGB and Brockman. So I think both players add some value for them.

An if the McKay don’t get a big pay day Roos are not getting pick 3.

Plus the AFL didn’t want to give top concessions last year, an with the talent on the list now I feel the Roo will get a late first round pick in 2023. They could very well hold pick 20 and 21.

* This way it does not sell our future away either.

An we can still try and trade for the suns first pick in 2023.

Imagine pick 1, pick 4 and Will McCabe ….Plus F/an and later players picked.

 

[killerspud]

Anyone thinking north would offer pick 2 and 3 and/or a F1 for pick 1 is delusional. If west coast are lucky, best case they get ports 1st thrown in. Either west coast want reid and they take him or they don’t and their bargaining power is low because they want Curtin and he’ll go at 2 or 3.

If west coast were smart they'd ask for North's pick2 and future 1 that would mean they have pick 1 and 2 next year and if they could send out a free agent next year they could have pick 3 as well

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think this is the absolute opportune time to take this kind of risk though. We have a good deal of good young players now. Yes we need a good KPP but it doesn’t look like we are adding it this year and from what I’ve read the draft next year is heavy on midfielders. We can look to get the KPP via free agency maybe in 2024 or 2025 when we are looking to be in contention again. I think with our exciting youff right now you just need to add that piece to take them over the edge - if Harley is worth it then you do it. Brockman is gone anyway so we can’t get stroppy about trading him. DGB might come good but is he really going to be the next Lake or Franklin at either end? Next year’s pick I am hoping will be past pick 10 so might not be as crazy valuable as the picks we’ve had the last 3-4 years. We can also buy picks in future years with our salary cap freedom.

If Reid is as good as everyone says then now is the perfect time to go for it for mine.

Mate, you must think Reid is going to be able to play 3 positions simultaneously, if you’re ok with us losing 3 first round talents and Brockman for him.

It makes almost no sense for us to contemplate a trade like that at this stage.

 

[Billyc]

Rumour has it there’s concern over the go home factor for Curtin as well.

North will not touch him. They simply cannot have another JHF situation.

 

[Billyc]

To those advocating for the Pick 1 trade….

Sure you could be trading away the chance to select Keiran Lovell and Dylan Stephen alongside DGB and Brocky to land Harley Reid, but you may also be trading away Rankine and Butters.

This place would be unbearable if DGB and Brockman alone hit their straps on a return home, let alone should we hand two stars to the Eagles on top of that.

Like I said, it’s ******* nuts. Particular for a side like ours still wanting to add talent, it would be a step backwards.

High risk high reward. It would all come down to just how highly Reid is regarded. In Croad and McPharlin we did trade away two bloody good footballers (I’m very confident neither Brockman nor DGB will be even close to as good as either) and yet it’s the best trade we ever did. Pick 3 and F1 are the more valuable assets. But if Reid is regarded as highly as Hodge was 20 years ago, you do it. Otherwise no.

I’d imagine any trade for pick 1 with all of those parts being discussed would also involve other picks that West Coast won’t even use coming back to help match a McCabe bid. So it could be worked out in a way that nets Reid and McCabe for example which would looks a lot more reasonable

If a trade up can be done without losing a F1 - even if it means getting another clubs instead - I’d be for it

 

[KeeperLeaguer]

I'd happily trade pick 3 and a F1 for pick 1 but not our future 1st.

I'd be upping the contract value for McKay to net Norf a 1st round compo pick on an agreement that they do not take Curtain with either pick 2 or 3. Then do the deal with Eagles for pick 1.

There's no such thing. No club would make any sort of 'agreement' with another club pre draft.
You may have heard stories in the past but that's all they were. Stories.

 

[Sixpence]

Why is DGB still being discussed? He came out and said he's not going anywhere.