Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[TylerDurden]

Swans out of McKay race.

 

[Bugs1977]

Negotiations are starting at a 4th or a F4.

Do you just accept that?

Just to be clear here West Coast currently hold the following picks:

1st round – pick 1
2nd round – pick 19 + pick 33
3rd round – pick 38 + pick 52
4th round – pick 57
5th round – pick 75

As talented as Brockman is they're not going to give us pick 1, 19 or 33. They hold all the ace's especially with the power of marching him to the PSD if they want to so the negotiations will between picks 38, 52, 57 and 75. I'd be hoping we push for pick 38 even if we have to send a little sweetener back there way (ie F4). Having pick 38 means it would likely ward off anyone with eyes on Tew Jiath unless they really want him before pick 40.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Just to be clear here West Coast currently hold the following picks:

1st round – pick 1
2nd round – pick 19 + pick 33
3rd round – pick 38 + pick 52
4th round – pick 57
5th round – pick 75

As talented as Brockman is they're not going to give us pick 1, 19 or 33. They hold all the ace's especially with the power of marching him to the PSD if they want to so the negotiations will between picks 38, 52, 57 and 75. I'd be hoping we push for pick 38 even if we have to send a little sweetener back there way (ie F4). Having pick 38 means it would likely ward off anyone with eyes on Tew Jiath unless they really want him before pick 40.

Pragmatism - it's underrated!

 

[Crankyhawk]

So do most posters here still “wish Tyler all the best” if he does go to WCE via PSD??

Has played the club and supporters all year like a fiddle, if we can’t get at least pick 38 Tyler and WCE have screwed us over royally

If it leads to us getting McKay via psd and screwing north out of their “band 1 compo” yes I would wish Tyler the best

 

[Sixpence]

Expecting pick 19 for Brockman is absolutely expecting the world.

You and I have very different definitions of what "the world" is!

It's not one or the other either, WC are perfectly capable of shuffling picks around to get a late 20s/early 30s pick. What they currently have and what they may end up giving us may not be the same thing.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You and I have very different definitions of what "the world" is!

It's not one or the other either, WC are perfectly capable of shuffling picks around to get a late 20s/early 30s pick. What they currently have and what they may end up giving us may not be the same thing.

I am basing the toys out of the cot starting here at talk of a 3rd round pick is people wanting more than that - what West Coast presently hold before that is 19 and 33. 33 isn't much different than 38 so I can only assume those aiming the toys have their sights on pick 19 which I think is absolutely fanciful.

Like you mentioned with pick shuffling - if we could wrangle 33 and some late picks with us giving a little back also - with our overall points situation for McCabe and possibly Jiath then looking better than I am absolutely here for it. If we could get a similar deal with 38 then I am still here for it. Those who are already losing their minds at the talk of a 3rd rounder being obtained and then 'marching' Brockman to the PSD, which is exactly what WCE would want us to do so we are only helping them, I honestly can't figure what more you want from him. If it's a second rounder - I think that would be unlikely no matter what secound round pick the team held - but being it's the first pick of the second round it's a bizarre price to want for mine.

 

[triple treat]

Just to be clear here West Coast currently hold the following picks:

1st round – pick 1
2nd round – pick 19 + pick 33
3rd round – pick 38 + pick 52
4th round – pick 57
5th round – pick 75

As talented as Brockman is they're not going to give us pick 1, 19 or 33. They hold all the ace's especially with the power of marching him to the PSD if they want to so the negotiations will between picks 38, 52, 57 and 75. I'd be hoping we push for pick 38 even if we have to send a little sweetener back there way (ie F4). Having pick 38 means it would likely ward off anyone with eyes on Tew Jiath unless they really want him before pick 40.

You can stomach pick 38 IMO but anything less and as a Hawthorn member I’d be pretty disappointed if the club didn’t make a stand and send him to the PSD!

 

[TOA.]

38 would be about right I think but they probably won't want to give that. Eagles have 1, 19, 32, 38, 52 and 58, if we can get 52 and 58 (428 points combined) it's not far off 38 (465 points) for matching the bid.

Yeah, you wont get 38 but I think 52 and 58 for Brockman and some late throw away pick you wont use (70 etc) will be the deal. Or it will be the best you will get instead of the PSD.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You can stomach pick 38 IMO but anything less and as a Hawthorn member I’d be pretty disappointed if the club didn’t make a stand and send him to the PSD!

Well as a member also I would hope the club acts like adults and gets points in for McCabe.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Getting ptsd from last year after being lectured all trade period that we were gonna play hard ball with free agent Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

who was gonna make sure we got a first or second round pick.

 

[matey]

We took Hustwaite around that pick 38 mark last year!

 

[Lickmesocks]

Getting ptsd from last year after being lectured all trade period that we were gonna play hard ball with free agent Jack Gunston who was gonna make sure we got a first or second round pick.

That was complete nonsense.

Jack had lost his father and wanted a change of scenery and a fresh start.

We did everything we could to keep him and he decided he wanted to go.

Having Birch, Hodge and Fagan all selling him the QLD dream didn’t help us one bit.

We were NEVER going to benefit in anyway for him leaving hence why Mitchell and Co did what they could to keep him here.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That was complete nonsense.

Jack had lost his father and wanted a change of scenery and a fresh start.

We did everything we could to keep him and he decided he wanted to go.

Having Birch, Hodge and Fagan all selling him the QLD dream didn’t help us one bit.

We were NEVER going to benefit in anyway for him leaving hence why Mitchell and Co did what they could to keep him here.

Tell that to the half a dozen or so posters who were convinced we should 'PlAy HaRdBaLl!!' and could not be told that Brisbane's need for points meant they weren't going to give us anything of real value for Jack.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Tell that to the half a dozen or so posters who were convinced we should 'PlAy HaRdBaLl!!' and could not be told that Brisbane's need for points meant they weren't going to give us anything of value for Jack.

Haha we have some emotional supporters on here.

Just like we won’t be playing hardball with Brocky.

Eagles have us over a barrel with this one unfortunately and anyone thinking the Eagles should pay up is dreaming.

What is he worth you ask?

Based on the small glimpses we have seen I reckon a pick between 35-45 is about right.

He may turn into a huge bargain for the Eagles and he also may turn into a complete flop depending on how much he really wants it. I have seen glimpses of real poor work rate in some games and the odd glimpse of something very exciting.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

One for the atomic 'walk him to the PSD' crew.

If a bid comes on McCabe inside the first round we would have to give up at least 788 points.

Outside of our first rounder we presently have pick 29 and 48 which only gets us 955 points. So essentially we would from the draft with two first round talents, which is nice, but that is it. Unless we get creative and get another first rounder - but let's face it when was the last time we negotiated one of those deals before trade night?

Even if WCE gave us picks 52 and 57 for Brockman we could at least still look at coming away from the night with another player - or contemplate getting another second rounder in somewhere and bidding on Jiath as well. I would much rather the club not get the optimal price for Brockman, but still having additional flexibility on draft night then just being stroppy and letting him walk for free.

If we can get pick 33/38 with some pick swapping down the line - great. If we have to settle for some later picks - sure that's disappointing but we need this draft to work for us as well. We are not in a position to just piss away picks to play hardball, make an example or whatever tough phrase you want to use. We have to be bloody smart this draft, not petulant.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Haha we have some emotional supporters on here.

Just like we won’t be playing hardball with Brocky.

Eagles have us over a barrel with this one unfortunately and anyone thinking the Eagles should pay up is dreaming.

What is he worth you ask?

Based on the small glimpses we have seen I reckon a pick between 35-45 is about right.

He may turn into a huge bargain for the Eagles and he also may turn into a complete flop depending on how much he really wants it. I have seen glimpses of real poor work rate in some games and the odd glimpse of something very exciting.

Not to mention they are still paying the price for overpaying for Tim Kelly - who showed a hell of a lot more than Brockman has. They're not going to pay overs just on potential. They hold every ace here - it sucks for us but let's get some picks/points and move on.

 

[Platten44]

One for the atomic 'walk him to the PSD' crew.

If a bid comes on McCabe inside the first round we would have to give up at least 788 points.

Outside of our first rounder we presently have pick 29 and 48 which only gets us 955 points. So essentially we would from the draft with two first round talents, which is nice, but that is it. Unless we get creative and get another first rounder - but let's face it when was the last time we negotiated one of those deals before trade night?

Even if WCE gave us picks 52 and 57 for Brockman we could at least still look at coming away from the night with another player - or contemplate getting another second rounder in somewhere and bidding on Jiath as well. I would much rather the club not get the optimal price for Brockman, but still having additional flexibility on draft night then just being stroppy and letting him walk for free.

If we can get pick 33/38 with some pick swapping down the line - great. If we have to settle for some later picks - sure that's disappointing but we need this draft to work for us as well. We are not in a position to just piss away picks to play hardball, make an example or whatever tough phrase you want to use. We have to be bloody smart this draft, not petulant.

It’s West Coast playing hard ball not us.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It’s West Coast playing hard ball not us.

I'm aware. I am addressing those who want us to play hardball when we have absolutely zero leverage and need all the picks we can get.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Not to mention they are still paying the price for overpaying for Tim Kelly - who showed a hell of a lot more than Brockman has. They're not going to pay overs just on potential. They hold every ace here - it sucks for us but let's get some picks/points and move on.

The past few years it has felt like we have been on the wrong side more often of trades.

The tide will turn at some stage!!!

 

[hawkinoz]

Negotiations are starting at a 4th or a F4.

Do you just accept that?

They are clued in.

We start at 38 and guess where it will end up.

This is the reason we have to counter with 19 when they start with F4. Posters stating basic negotiation tactics seem to trigger some Hawks fans who want to "be real".

This is reality. We have to talk up the chance of letting him walk to PSD.

Ideally should try to end up with 38 + 57 but they are targeting just 57 or if they have to give 38, then our 48 or F3/F4 goes back.

****
We should be trying to get Chol if Sam is convinced of his quality and he can be motivated to not show his lazy streak at AFL level.

Suns will be forced to delist 8 or so people given 3-4 list spots will be wound back by AFL and they will need to make space for 4 new draftees.

So Chol is likely in this trade pool as lot of the others are higher quality.

 

[burger09]

Haha we have some emotional supporters on here.

Just like we won’t be playing hardball with Brocky.

Eagles have us over a barrel with this one unfortunately and anyone thinking the Eagles should pay up is dreaming.

What is he worth you ask?

Based on the small glimpses we have seen I reckon a pick between 35-45 is about right.

He may turn into a huge bargain for the Eagles and he also may turn into a complete flop depending on how much he really wants it. I have seen glimpses of real poor work rate in some games and the odd glimpse of something very exciting.

Agree it's a hard one.

He could be an star or a complete bust.
His true trade value will only be know in 5 years.

 

[tommyk72]

I'm torn on this. We get bent over regularly. It would send a message.

No it won’t. We just lose out. These messages don’t last long. They hold all the leverage.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The past few years it has felt like we have been on the wrong side more often of trades.

The tide will turn at some stage!!!

We have had our fair share that went right also. I also prefer winning premierships as opposed to winning trades. For all their bluster - where have Cripps, Dodo, Bell et al actually gotten their sides?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

This is reality. We have to talk up the chance of letting him walk to PSD.

Do we? If someone said to me 'pay me a higher price or I will let you have it for free in a month's time!!!' I am not exactly going to be compelled to pay the higher price. They have pick 1 in the PSD - the PSD threat only works if there is a risk they might lose the player in that gamble.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Agree it's a hard one.

He could be an star or a complete bust.
His true trade value will only be know in 5 years.

Imagine our supporters if the shoe was on the other foot .

A Vic lad out of contract choosing to return and wanting to play for Hawthorn.

Would we overpay based on what that player might be in 5 years? Not a chance.