List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[crasha301]

Haha Owens is the best player to walk in the door in 10 years and you would trade him for two top 10 picks ?? He’s the type of player you build a side around . Coffield and Clark were pick 9 and 10 weren’t they ?

Pick 1 and 2?

Everyone has a price is my point and not that I want to trade for the sake of trading!

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[BrutThough]

Doing what we've been doing first the last 13 odd years isn't working is it?

Is it a gamble? Yes! But unfortunately if you don't take them you sit middle table for years on end achieving nothing.

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You could also argue trading out our better players for speculative draft picks was a big contributing factor to struggles over the past decade.

 

[crasha301]

You could also argue trading out our better players for speculative draft picks was a big contributing factor to struggles over the past decade.

Trading them when their value was low like stuv or losing them to FA in the early years for below open market value picks probably had more to do with it.

Our entire trade,draft and development has been poor for years as a collective.



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[sunny3193]

Im not for or against trading out Steele

But....

If we did and he got us a top 10 draft pick and we got Parish as a FA

Have we improved our list? I think yes.



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Ah, but if we got Parish as a FA, and kept Steele, wouldn’t we be even better off?

 

[bergholt]

Trading them when their value was low like stuv or losing them to FA in the early years for below open market value picks probably had more to do with it.

I can't remember many we could have got value for over the last 10 years. Maybe Steven a year earlier. Maybe Armo to Brisbane at one point? Newnes before we delisted him? Maybe Carlisle after a couple of years on our list? I guess maybe Marshall a couple of years ago but that would have been a weird trade.

 

[bergholt]

Ah, but if we got Parish as a FA, and kept Steele, wouldn’t we be even better off?

IMO no because Steele is five years older than King, so when Max is at his peak Steele is mostly done. I guess maybe he's Travis Boak and still going great after 30 but Boak has basically never missed games any season of his career, whereas we can all see Steele's injuries.

The first round pick on the other hand is not guaranteed to make it but is the right age to seriously contribute to a core during Max/Mitch/Pou/Nas/etc glory years.

 

[austinnn]

Isn't that the whole point of your post. To develop a strategy of trading out players at their peak for draft picks, given you mentioned Steele and Marshall and gave other examples?

Floating the option of trading one of the best players in the comp for inexperienced kids is one of the more mind-numbing things I've read on here in a long while but each to their own I guess lol

We need a better midfield, happy to develop that naturally through the draft with the picks we get each year, or trade out guys like Gresham and Billings who could net us the mid or mids we need.

Start with the players that are expendable first I would've thought.

I floated the idea of doing it once or twice, now and then, not trading everyone of value. To trade ONE of Steele, Sinclair, or Marshall would bring benefits that could get us to the top, but to trade all three would be reckless and stupid.

I get its an emotive issue and a few years ago I'd have vigorously argued against it like you, but we've held onto all our stars in the past, and where has that got us? We keep trying to make shallow moves and take short cuts with as little sacrifice as possible but it's got mediocre results so far. We are bloody lucky no one bid on Owens or Windy before pick 20, that's all I'll say.

PS to the poster who described Sinclair as a Saints fan, FWIW he was a Blues fan (see the Dylan Buckley podcast for proof from the horse's mouth) - not that it matters.

I love Sinclair, would be rapt to keep him, but at the same time, he is 28 and his position can be filled. If we got a great deal for him (and this is all I'd let him go for) than the club would have to consider it.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

I wouldn't begrudge a player like sinclair chasing a cup either, imagine seeing him win a norm smith, I'd be so happy for him. But we'd have to get two early firsts for him, one very early. Otherwise it's not worth it, the way he plays he could have 4 more elite years left at this rate.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I would trade anyone for the right price!

For example, I love Owens and think he's going to become an elite midfielder.

But if a ridiculous offer like multiple first rounders came in I'd take it.

If someone offered us a top 10 pick for Marshall I'd pack his bags.

A top 30 pick for membrey? Cya later.

The point is the majority of our senior players won't be there for our tilt at a premiership anyway.

I'd keep Sinclair and Steele. The rest I'd look at trading over the next 2-3 years and get the best picks available or delisting.

Haha Owens is the best player to walk in the door in 10 years and you would trade him for two top 10 picks ?? He’s the type of player you build a side around . Coffield and Clark were pick 9 and 10 weren’t they ?

Pick 1 and 2?

Everyone has a price is my point and not that I want to trade for the sake of trading!

The trouble with this is the players have to agree to it.

Pick 1 and 2 for Owens. "Hey Mitch, we know you're only 19 years old and very close to family in the bayside, but how would you like to move to the other side of the country and play for the worst team in decades?"

"Hey Ro old mate; put the Xbox down and pack your bags. We reckon you'll love playing under Ratts again for North Melbourne, or is it the Kangas, or North Kangas, at Arden Street or in Tassie or wherever"

We can look at clubs that have lost great players and have benefitted from the picks received in return. But those players instigated the moves. You can't just trade players without their consent.

 

[bird_man]

IMO no because Steele is five years older than King, so when Max is at his peak Steele is mostly done. I guess maybe he's Travis Boak and still going great after 30 but Boak has basically never missed games any season of his career, whereas we can all see Steele's injuries.

The first round pick on the other hand is not guaranteed to make it but is the right age to seriously contribute to a core during Max/Mitch/Pou/Nas/etc glory years.

Max will be 24 next year, he's nearing the start of his peak 5/6 years now.

You've gotta have quality experienced players to win a flag.

 

[Joffaboy]

So people want to trade Sinclair, Owens, and Marshall.
Why not Wilkie and King while we are at it?


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[beside the seaside]

I wouldn't begrudge a player like sinclair chasing a cup either, imagine seeing him win a norm smith, I'd be so happy for him. But we'd have to get two early firsts for him, one very early. Otherwise it's not worth it, the way he plays he could have 4 more elite years left at this rate.

You'd like to see Sincs win a norm smith for another club? I genuinely can't think of much worse.

You're either incredibly zen or incredibly high.

 

[George]

I floated the idea of doing it once or twice, now and then, not trading everyone of value. To trade ONE of Steele, Sinclair, or Marshall would bring benefits that could get us to the top, but to trade all three would be reckless and stupid.

I get its an emotive issue and a few years ago I'd have vigorously argued against it like you, but we've held onto all our stars in the past, and where has that got us? We keep trying to make shallow moves and take short cuts with as little sacrifice as possible but it's got mediocre results so far. We are bloody lucky no one bid on Owens or Windy before pick 20, that's all I'll say.

PS to the poster who described Sinclair as a Saints fan, FWIW he was a Blues fan (see the Dylan Buckley podcast for proof from the horse's mouth) - not that it matters.

I love Sinclair, would be rapt to keep him, but at the same time, he is 28 and his position can be filled. If we got a great deal for him (and this is all I'd let him go for) than the club would have to consider it.

This isn't fantasy football, it's not as linear as replace one player for something else and we improve. There's also intangibles like how he fits into the team dynamic in terms of his leadership and cohesiveness. You can completely ruin an entire group if you trade out players like that.

How can his position be filled? That slingshot off half back is what all good sides are craving right now and we are lucky enough to have our own. Everyone is looking for the Daicos types that can generate attack from the back half but have the ability to move into the midfield.

What stars have we held onto? We let McEvoy, Goddard and Dal Santo walk and then bottomed out completely. We still haven't recovered from that period in time. Riewoldt has mentioned numerous times that it sucked the soul out of the place. Do we want to toy with that again? Or do we want to be a bit smarter and look to first trade expendable players who don't want to be there anymore.

It's not an emotive issue it's just plain stupidity and we'd have to have some real amateurs in list management to consider moving a player like that.

 

[crasha301]

What would we get for membrey realistically?

Would he be better used for a first round pick up grade?

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[crasha301]

So people want to trade Sinclair, Owens, and Marshall.
Why not Wilkie and King while we are at it?


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That's the spirit.

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[austinnn]

I actually wouldn't trade Owens, his upside is unclear, his career is just starting.

The other players I tabled have very limited untapped potential left - maybe Sinclair as an out and out midfielder - and as good as they are, I'm pretty sure they'd only find a higher level in a different team.

I want to make it clear I'm only talking about trading one of them because I think they'd have immense external value as well as internal value, as opposed to someone like Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

who has high internal value but very little external value - as the scrapped trade last year proved. I don't like the idea of letting our best players leave, but I do think we need to at least be prepared for that level of sacrifice if we want to have a premiership-worthy list. Of course if your list manager is rubbish, then it's a bad move, so maybe we should give SOS and Gubby an off season before we trust them with those kinds of stakes.

 

[austinnn]

What would we get for membrey realistically?

Would he be better used for a first round pick up grade?

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Lucky to pick up a 4th round pick for him now realistically.

 

[George]

Think it's fairly obvious that we need to first look at players who are either;

A) Not getting games
B) Incredibly out of form

Instead of established All-Australians who are ranked elite for their position.

Billings, Gresham, Membrey, Ross, Jones, Howard as a starting point for players who fit the mould.

 

[Joffaboy]

What would we get for membrey realistically?

Would he be better used for a first round pick up grade?

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This

 

[Klaatu]

For everyone bagging Liam Henry all of a sudden WB & Melb are chasing him I told months ago we were into him.


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[bergholt]

Max will be 24 next year, he's nearing the start of his peak 5/6 years now.

You've gotta have quality experienced players to win a flag.

You've got to have quality leadership to win a flag. Experience for the sake of experience is just a nice to have imo.

I don't know if Steele's a great leader or not, but on-field leadership seems to have been a consistent problem for us for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if RTB was judging him pretty harshly. Not sure we lose a lot if he's not a great leader and we get a first rounder for him.

 

[austinnn]

This isn't fantasy football, it's not as linear as replace one player for something else and we improve. There's also intangibles like how he fits into the team dynamic in terms of his leadership and cohesiveness. You can completely ruin an entire group if you trade out players like that.

How can his position be filled? That slingshot off half back is what all good sides are craving right now and we are lucky enough to have our own. Everyone is looking for the Daicos types that can generate attack from the back half but have the ability to move into the midfield.

What stars have we held onto? We let McEvoy, Goddard and Dal Santo walk and then bottomed out completely. We still haven't recovered from that period in time. Riewoldt has mentioned numerous times that it sucked the soul out of the place. Do we want to toy with that again? Or do we want to be a bit smarter and look to first trade expendable players who don't want to be there anymore.

It's not an emotive issue it's just plain stupidity and we'd have to have some real amateurs in list management to consider moving a player like that.

What stars have we held onto? My op listed 5, and you have a short memory.

Armo was 2nd in the 2015 B&F, got 12 Brownlow votes and was touted as a trade target to join his mate Dusty Martin to (at that time) Ninthmond - instead we gave him a contract until 2019 and watched him slowly decompose before eventual retirement.

Jack Steven won 4 B&Fs ('13, '15, '16 & '18), and in 2015, he signed until 2020. He requested a trade in '18 IIRC but Richo used him as a floatation device for his final year, then Stuv requested mental health leave the following year then we traded him to Geelong for a Mars bar.

Josh Bruce came 8th in the 2015 Coleman Medal with 50 goals and was hot property then... less so when we traded him 4 years later for a Bounty bar.

Seb Ross won the 2017 & 2019 B&Fs and would have even got Essington's master chef Adrian Doritos to give us a blank cheque once upon a time, but we kept hold of him instead and voila! Instant GOP.

Ditto Jack Billings, who for a good while fooled the AFL community into thinking he was a promising footballer. Could have got a lot for him once.

Tim Membrey has never been a star, but that says more about his nature, and the good list managers would have easily parted with a FRDP for a forward with his ability and physique a few years ago - not now.

Jade Gresham is a similar case, a promising multifaceted x factor player who might have commanded a high price as recently as last off season, but sadly the AFL world now sees how flaky he truly is.

Not one of the above examples had propelled our club into finals, let alone won a premiership. Did we really gain that much as a club by holding onto them for as long as we did?

These are just some recent examples: you could argue that Nick Riewoldt fits the bill here too: what would Eddie have given us for him? He had an amazing career with us and probably could have even gone on longer and beaten Harvs' record, but would it have been better for everyone if he'd left when Ross left, for example?


If we'd been more pro-active with Luke Ball, we could have maxed that trade rather than watching him walk over to the Pies with our IP for nix.

Anyway, coulda shoulda woulda. We're so desperate to prove ourselves as a club that we hold onto any stars, hoping they will elevate us and take us to the promised land. We love our messiahs and can't really play the long game. That's why I was desperate for Jason Cripps to come home and whip our list into shape: there's a guy who's unafraid of short term pain and can see the big picture. I hope with little certainty that SOS is the same.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Im not for or against trading out Steele
But....
If we did and he got us a top 10 draft pick and we got Parish as a FA

And then we all woke up and the sheets were 'wet'





I Would prob take that deal tbh

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Collingwood does

Pretty
Much because they had too. Whilst having a good season they haven’t won a granny yet.

 

[Minga]

Wtf is going on here. We’re 5th. Feels like we’re bottom 4 by the way some of ya’ll are talking.