Player Watch 2024 Father-Son player watch - Ky Burgoyne and Ned Maginness

[caseman2]

Hopes donn't seem very high on Ky Burgoyne....

Small extract from the article but read the full article and it is sounds like he is a rookie chance at best.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-2024-the-fatherson-and-academy-guns-the-power-and-crows-will-be-targeting/news-story/0fbd667d341901970334f1691e5e78d5

Ky Burgoyne​

■ Son of: Port Adelaide and Hawthorn champion Shaun Burgoyne

9

Shaun Burgoyne

Age

41

Ht

186cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

9.9

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.8

5star

MG

162.7

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

5.6

2star

HB

4.4

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

162.7

3star

D

6.2

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.6

4star

■ Half-back

■ SANFL club: West Adelaide/Port Adelaide

■ 2024 statistics: Two league games for Port (7.5 disposals, 4.5 tackles, 43 ranking points); 15 under-18 matches for West (15.2 disposals, 4.3 tackles, 1.3 clearances, 68.2 ranking points)

■ Recruiter says: “He plays predominantly as a shutdown defender and he tested very well athletically this year. He was the second-fastest guy in the SA under-18 testing. Ky doesn’t have his dad’s skill but he does have some really good athletic attributes.”

 

[The Chad and I]

Hopes donn't seem very high on Ky Burgoyne....

Small extract from the article but read the full article and it is sounds like he is a rookie chance at best.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-2024-the-fatherson-and-academy-guns-the-power-and-crows-will-be-targeting/news-story/0fbd667d341901970334f1691e5e78d5

Ky Burgoyne​

■ Son of: Port Adelaide and Hawthorn champion Shaun Burgoyne

■ Half-back

■ SANFL club: West Adelaide/Port Adelaide

■ 2024 statistics: Two league games for Port (7.5 disposals, 4.5 tackles, 43 ranking points); 15 under-18 matches for West (15.2 disposals, 4.3 tackles, 1.3 clearances, 68.2 ranking points)

■ Recruiter says: “He plays predominantly as a shutdown defender and he tested very well athletically this year. He was the second-fastest guy in the SA under-18 testing. Ky doesn’t have his dad’s skill but he does have some really good athletic attributes.”

I like the look of Ky. He moves extremely well, and let's face it, few have the skills of his dad.

Worth bringing over to BH for some development.
15 disposals for a shutdown defender is not awful, and given his athleticism and pedigree I think there's some upside we could unlock.

 

[mustang]

I like the look of Ky. He moves extremely well, and let's face it, few have the skills of his dad.

Worth bringing over to BH for some development.
15 disposals for a shutdown defender is not awful, and given his athleticism and pedigree I think there's some upside we could unlock.

Yeah same he could even develop into a winger for us, We should still pick him and leave him at BH even if his there a couple of years before he plays AFL.

 

[HedgeFund]

I like the look of Ky. He moves extremely well, and let's face it, few have the skills of his dad.

Worth bringing over to BH for some development.
15 disposals for a shutdown defender is not awful, and given his athleticism and pedigree I think there's some upside we could unlock.

Don’t waste a pick. If he’s keen to play AFL footy in our system, then sign him to Box Hill and let him learn in that environment.

SANFL u18s is a lower standard than Coates League and the fact he’s a middling player at that level suggests state league footy is his most likely peak at this point in time.

Same for Ned M.

Neither of them are Calsher Dear types (which is no surprise)

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

Get Ky and His brother.

 

[HedgeFund]

Get Ky and His brother

…or be patient and just get Percy (if he ends up being good enough)

 

[Randy Campbell]

Get Ky and His brother.

 

[mustang]

Hopefully what Mitch said on AFL 360, in that Dear has questioned the way he looks at players, helps KY get on the list and into a professional full time environment to see how he develops, and we do love a half back flanker.

 

[HedgeFund]

Hopefully what Mitch said on AFL 360, in that Dear has questioned the way he looks at players, helps KY get on the list and into a professional full time environment to see how he develops, and we do love a half back flanker.

I think the issue is Ky has played football constantly (save for 2020) throughout his youth, and his output hasn’t been good enough to make the SA state squad in his draft year.

Calsher’s output was enough to get him into the Vic Metro squad before he really came from the clouds this time last year.

In short, it would appear Ky is like 99.5% of kids his age, who either:

1. play the game at their age level, but not well enough to be an AFL player and/or

2. don’t have physical attributes which suggest he could elevate himself in an AFL environment.

So he has a father who was exceptionally good at the game, and understandably he isn’t nearly as good as his dad at the same age. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s the norm, not the exception.

No one here is ever mentioning Charlie Crawford, who no doubt isn’t talented enough as a footballer to follow in his father’s footsteps. Again, that makes him part of the 99.5% not the 0.5%

 

[Walshawk]

Can Ky play SANFL u18s as an overager? Sign Ned up for Box Hill.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Recruiter says: “He plays predominantly as a shutdown defender and he tested very well athletically this year. He was the second-fastest guy in the SA under-18 testing. Ky doesn’t have his dad’s skill but he does have some really good athletic attributes.”

Long-term prospect for replacing Dimma. I'm here for it.

 

[The hands of stone]

Hopefully what Mitch said on AFL 360, in that Dear has questioned the way he looks at players, helps KY get on the list and into a professional full time environment to see how he develops, and we do love a half back flanker.

Don't confuse competitiveness and want to succeed with physical/genetic attributes .

I think what Mitch was alluding too with Calsher is his raw physical attributes combined with his 'elite' competitiveness have challenged his thinking.
Why can't an 18 yo hold down a KP post ?
Why can't someone coming from so far back do the above ?
We now have someone who has done it .

But it's a huge outlier . Throwing list spots for being competitive unfortunately isn't feasible.
As HF said you need to be in a small % bracket to be in the frame in professional sports environment , then you need to total package to succeed.

If we don't select him there will be a reason, if we do we must see something in both elements to pick him.

 

[Hawks91b]

If either were NGA eligible we could probably have a look but we are going to be super tight for main list and rookie spots so I think they may need to go the long way around at BoxHill or SANFL.

Ky could do what Ned did and not nominate for the draft and if he develops he could nominate next year and we take him father son then.

 

[kazzooka]

Don't confuse competitiveness and want to succeed with physical/genetic attributes .

I think what Mitch was alluding too with Calsher is his raw physical attributes combined with his 'elite' competitiveness have challenged his thinking.
Why can't an 18 yo hold down a KP post ?
Why can't someone coming from so far back do the above ?
We now have someone who has done it .

But it's a huge outlier . Throwing list spots for being competitive unfortunately isn't feasible.
As HF said you need to be in a small % bracket to be in the frame in professional sports environment , then you need to total package to succeed.

If we don't select him there will be a reason, if we do we must see something in both elements to pick him.

Yep it's the competitiveness and athletic ability that sets it apart. There were a few games where he disappeared or repeatedly got beaten by a high quality defender but not often.

I don't imagine many could do what Calsher has done. Tim O'Brien was on our list for 9 years and only once did he manage to equal Calsher's goal output. But it took O'Brien 16 games to get 19 goals (vs Dear 14) and it was his 5th season.

I think if anything it just busts the myth that "key position players take time" no, if they are good you can see it immediately.

All the best ones you know straight away, even the poster boy for it Tom Hawkins showed plenty early with 12,13 and 34 goals in his first 3 years.

I can't think of any Coleman medalist who spent 5 years in and out of the side before coming good.

 

[ahhhhhh]

Yep it's the competitiveness and athletic ability that sets it apart. There were a few games where he disappeared or repeatedly got beaten by a high quality defender but not often.

I don't imagine many could do what Calsher has done. Tim O'Brien was on our list for 9 years and only once did he manage to equal Calsher's goal output. But it took O'Brien 16 games to get 19 goals (vs Dear 14) and it was his 5th season.

I think if anything it just busts the myth that "key position players take time" no, if they are good you can see it immediately.

All the best ones you know straight away, even the poster boy for it Tom Hawkins showed plenty early with 12,13 and 34 goals in his first 3 years.

I can't think of any Coleman medalist who spent 5 years in and out of the side before coming good.

This year's. Jesse Hogan.

 

[Nugett]

Don't confuse competitiveness and want to succeed with physical/genetic attributes .

I think what Mitch was alluding too with Calsher is his raw physical attributes combined with his 'elite' competitiveness have challenged his thinking.
Why can't an 18 yo hold down a KP post ?
Why can't someone coming from so far back do the above ?
We now have someone who has done it .

But it's a huge outlier . Throwing list spots for being competitive unfortunately isn't feasible.
As HF said you need to be in a small % bracket to be in the frame in professional sports environment , then you need to total package to succeed.

If we don't select him there will be a reason, if we do we must see something in both elements to pick him.

Any one can be competitive, but you still have to have the skill set to achieve. With Calsher, he does have that basketball background. So he has skills, with jumping, catching, tapping ect, that can translate. He also has played football, in lower leagues.

Compare him to Scrim, when he first arrived, had all the natural talent in the world to play footy. Just appeared to do the minimum. It really wasn’t until this year, that it all seemed to click in place, as he appears to be more competitive than what he was.

So my take from Sam, with that comment, was that clubs were more concerned with skills over being competitive, because they felt they could ingrain that competitive attribute easier. In Calsher’s case he was more driven and competitive rather than skills based. So it’s reverse, because they are able to use his drive to increase his skill set.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I can't think of any Coleman medalist who spent 5 years in and out of the side before coming good.

Certainly wasn't in and out of the side as such, and he had injuries also - but Charlie Curnow was in his 6th season when he broke out and won the Coleman. Prior to that his best return was 34 goals.

 

[mknaven]

Jesee Hogan also kicked something like 44 goals in the first year he played AFL. Had some off field issues but could always play.

 

[HedgeFund]

I can't think of any Coleman medalist who spent 5 years in and out of the side before coming good.

Brendan Fevola & Josh Kennedy (WC) also come to mind.

 

[kazzooka]

This year's. Jesse Hogan.

Nonsense, Hogan was injured in his first year but on his 2nd he kicked 44 goals and won the rising star award.Nobody ever thought "key position players take time" about him.

He had issues when he went to Freo and start at GWS. But that was all injury and other personal issues, never about development and taking longer than a mid as a key position player.

 

[TylerDurden]

Nonsense, Hogan was injured in his first year but on his 2nd he kicked 44 goals and won the rising star award.Nobody ever thought "key position players take time" about him.

He had issues when he went to Freo and start at GWS. But that was all injury and other personal issues, never about development and taking longer than a mid as a key position player.

His dad passed away back then, which threw him for a while. Understandably. Was very close to him.

 

[kazzooka]

Certainly wasn't in and out of the side as such, and he had injuries also - but Charlie Curnow was in his 6th season when he broke out and won the Coleman. Prior to that his best return was 34 goals.

Due to injury. The day he was drafted it was clear he was a star and he performed early on.

Not saying you don't improve as you get older.

But good key forward has had a career start like O'Brien who don't play in their first 3 years, and are still have questions about their ability in 5-6 years in. But 100s of tall players get that opportunity on the myth that in 4-5 years they'll come good.

Ruckman, yes you see it a lot. Guys spend years in the 2s and then usually get traded and have good careers. But that's usually because there is only 1 ruck spot and if it's not you you don't play. And it's usually the guy stuck behind a great player that makes it. Stefan Martin, Mumford, Meek, pittonet, Jolley etc..

 

[kazzooka]

Brendan Fevola & Josh Kennedy (WC) also come to mind.

Fev no, showed plenty early.

Kennedy maybe didn't really break out and prove he was capable till his 4th season.

 

[KermitJagger]

His dad passed away back then, which threw him for a while. Understandably. Was very close to him.

Had cancer too. Lots can be said about Hogan but he's had a lot of challenges getting where he is now.

 

[KermitJagger]

Nonsense, Hogan was injured in his first year but on his 2nd he kicked 44 goals and won the rising star award.Nobody ever thought "key position players take time" about him.

He had issues when he went to Freo and start at GWS. But that was all injury and other personal issues, never about development and taking longer than a mid as a key position player.

It took Jay Schulz almost 10 years tbf.