Oppo Camp 2024 Finals Discussion (other games)

[Ned Ryerson]

Sydney is all Midfielders not much of a forward line or backline a lot like us really and got smashed on the biggest stage, we have fixed our backline now we need to work on our forward line, we need to have a forward line that is like our 3peat one, like Brisbane have goals that can come from everywhere, it's getting there but needs more work.

Agreed we need some additions, but our forward line is miles ahead of Sydney’s. Amartey would be playing for Box Hill if he was on our list.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I didn’t use Grand Finals as an example, you did, and the one you used was a dead rubber where no one needed to be on Neale’s shoulders.

A grand final is a grand final. None of our amazing performances in the 2014 and 2015 grand finals matter any less because we pantsed our opponent.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Selwood always lifted when his team needed him. Neale a really good player but Selwood is a great. I hate saying it but for me I can't deny it

and with that the games gone past TFP

 

[mustang]

No, you’ve really got to stop with this “we have to do what we did 15 years ago” narrative in every post.

Besides, you quite literally just stated Sydney are all midfielders and got smashed, then said we need to have more midfielders, like they do. It makes no sense.

Look at Brisbane's forward line, did you read the whole post i compared it to that, with what Brisbane have done, where goals come from everywhere, and it was like our one what we had, and the post says nothing about more midfielders.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Yeah, nah. 1 premiership in 11 seasons as captain does not a great leader make. And if you’re going to use a capitulating Sydney as a way of nullifying what Neale did on Saturday then Selwood’s only flag as captain barely counts also.

Stop it man, Selwood was clearly a great captain and leader.

 

[Billyc]

Stop it man, Selwood was clearly a great captain and leader.

He definitely was. I think Neale has been the better player though. His game on the weekend was incredible. Ashcroft was great but Neale was stiff. Dominated that get from the outset at the coalface. On a dodgy leg too. It was the crowning glory in his career and elevates him above quite a few now in the modern greats.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Stop it man, Selwood was clearly a great captain and leader.

It was an arguing technique - he was diminishing Neale’s efforts based on their opponents I was pointing out you could do the same with Selwood based on Sydney being equally as non existent in his solitary flag captaincy.

Never said Selwood wasn’t a great player. He was a good captain. I don’t think he was on the Hodge/Voss level of leadership though. He was pumped up by the media more than those two and I think they were far better captains of their footy clubs. And for mine Neale belongs on the same level as Selwood in terms of his leadership of a footy club and that shouldn’t be dismissively rebutted in my view. Having heard from people who know the full ins and outs of what happened with the Lions shenanigans in Vegas (don’t ask me for them I was told in confidence) - what the leadership of that club have done to overcome that, the heartbreaking grand final loss and poor start to the season - it is amazing leadership from Andrews, Neale and Fagan - Selwood, to my knowledge, never had to resurrect a Cats season under similar circumstances.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Stop it man, Selwood was clearly a great captain and leader.

As much as all the negative things said about Selwood are true (the ducking, the petulance, the media fawning over his every possession) it is also true that in those games when we played the Cats and they beat us in that "Kennet Curse" stretch of games it was always bloody Selwood who seemed to lift when they needed someone to lead. And mostly he did it through pure force of will.

For me Neale is the better overall player but Selwood had a will to win that was pretty impressive (much as I hate to admit it).

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Look at Brisbane's forward line, did you read the whole post i compared it to that, with what Brisbane have done, where goals come from everywhere, and it was like our one what we had, and the post says nothing about more midfielders.

I see you’ve now edited your post so that it makes more sense.

Regardless, our forward line is one of our strengths, we kick goals from everywhere just like the Lions do.

 

[SSSSSS]

Sydney is all Midfielders not much of a forward line or backline a lot like us really and got smashed on the biggest stage, we have fixed our backline now we need to work on our forward line, we need to have a forward line that is like our 3peat one, like Brisbane have goals that can come from everywhere, it's getting there but needs more work, Dear, Watson, MacDonald, Ginnivan it's a great start.

Sydney's midfield has a soft underbelly.

Gulden is outside. Warner is a receiver. Heeney broke down at the final hurdle but he's also a receiver as well.

They need a genuine inside mid, see ball get ball type. Longmire hates those types though. That's why Mitchell got the flick.

They've been smashed physically on the inside in the last 3 Grand Finals. Physical mids might not be sexy in the H&A season but they become a premium in big finals.

They just didn't have an answer for Berry and Dunkley smashing bodies at every stoppage and feeding Ashcroft, Neale and the suitcase.

 

[Off The Couch]

Selwood was a better leader on field than Neale. Hodge like in my opinion - inspiring and continually directed and walked the talk. In saying that I don’t believe Hodge got the same Kudos as what Selwood did from the media as a captain

As for the more “valuable” rather than better player, I’m going with Neale, far more versatile

 

[mustang]

I see you’ve now edited your post so that it makes more sense.

Regardless, our forward line is one of our strengths, we kick goals from everywhere just like the Lions do.

Haha ok

 

[gambinotosserflog]

Agreed we need some additions, but our forward line is miles ahead of Sydney’s. Amartey would be playing for Box Hill if he was on our list.

silly comment. i think amartey has a long way to go, but he still kicked 41 goals. mabior chol kicked 34.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Haha ok

We quite literally came in for praise from media for how balanced our side is and how many forwards you have to stop to get the better of us.
Who were you watching in 2024?

 

[Blackhawk42]

I think, barring a rule change that disrupts their gameplan or Daniher retiring the Lions are a very good chance of repeating. I know it gets said about every side that wins the flag almost - but when you consider the players they get back from injury plus the younger Ashcroft they’re likely to be even better.

They've been consistently in the top 4 for 6 seasons now.
Finally got their flag.

Very good chance of a mental premiership hangover next season, despite the talent on the list.

I wouldn't predict them to finish anywhere other than 3rd to 6th, but I also won't be surprised if they end up between 8th and 11th.

 

[H00t]

Neale playing in queensland and Perth probably hurts his reputation but his career accomplishments out do selwood (premierships aside of course). Selwood leads AAs but has 2 less bnfs (3 v 5) and no brownlows (to 2 for neale). Neale also with the aflca champion.

Neale

• AFL premiership captain: 2024
• 2× Brownlow Medal: 2020, 2023
• Brisbane Lions co-captain: 2023–
• Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2020
• AFLCA champion player of the year: 2020
• Lou Richards Medal: 2020
• 4× All-Australian team: 2019, 2020, 2022, 2024
• 2× Doig Medal: 2016, 2018
• 3× Merrett–Murray Medal: 2019, 2020, 2022
• 2× Geoff Christian Medal: 2016, 2018
• 22under22 team: 2015
• 3× Ross Glendinning Medal: 2014, 2015, 2018
• 2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2020, 2023

Selwood

• 4× AFL premiership player: (2007, 2009, 2011, 2022)
• AFL premiership captain: (2022)
• 6× All-Australian team: (2009, 2010, 2013(c), 2014(c), 2016(c), 2017)
• 4× AFLPA Robert Rose Most Courageous Player Award: (2009, 2012, 2013, 2014)
• 3× Carji Greeves Medal: (2010, 2013, 2014)
• Geelong captain: (2012–2022)
• AFLPA best captain award: (2013)
• Herald Sun Player of the Year: (2014)
• Ron Evans Medal: (2007)
• AFLPA best first-year player award: (2007)
• 2x Peter Badcoe VC Medal: (2016, 2018)
• AFLCA best young player award: (2008)
• Pre-season premiership player: (2009)
• Michael Tuck Medal: (2009)
• Australian IRS captain: (2014)
• Most games played as an AFL captain (245 games)
• Most wins as an AFL captain (160 wins)
• Jim Stynes Community Leadership Award (2022)
• Most finals ever played (40

Selwood only didn’t win a Brownlow (finished second by 1) in 2013 because he got beaten by prime Ablett and had Stevie J stealing votes off him.

He’s also finished very high up in the Brownlow a number of times despite having to contend with a heap of his teammates all taking votes off each other.

Ever since his second year he’s been in the top handful of mids in the league.

I seriously dislike him as a player but can’t help but respect just how good he was.

As good as Neale has been Selwood just that bit better.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

silly comment. i think amartey has a long way to go, but he still kicked 41 goals. mabior chol kicked 34.

Ever looked at stats comparisons beyond total goals? Chol would not be losing his spot to Amartey.

 

[MatteeG]

Ever looked at stats comparisons beyond total goals? Chol would not be losing his spot to Amartey.

The 9 goals vs the crows witches hats seriously inflate his stats tbf.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Brishawk]

Selwood only didn’t win a Brownlow (finished second by 1) in 2013 because he got beaten by prime Ablett and had Stevie J stealing votes off him.

He’s also finished very high up in the Brownlow a number of times despite having to contend with a heap of his teammates all taking votes off each other.

Ever since his second year he’s been in the top handful of mids in the league.

I seriously dislike him as a player but can’t help but respect just how good he was.

As good as Neale has been Selwood just that bit better.

Not suggesting selwood is anything but a champion player. And im not saying there is some giant chasm between them either

But neale is a two time winner and by this time next year will go past selwood for career brownlow votes in about 50 less games. He is a shot at finishing top 3 all time (maybe even number 1 all time if he continues to play well for long enough). Has the highest votes per game of current players outside of daicos and cripps (which are obviously distorted by the 2024 results but good on them anyway). This is an all time great player by that kind of measure.

 

[H00t]

Not suggesting selwood is anything but a champion player. And im not saying there is some giant chasm between them either

But neale is a two time winner and by this time next year will go past selwood for career brownlow votes in about 50 less games. He is a shot at finishing top 3 all time (maybe even number 1 all time if he continues to play well for long enough). Has the highest votes per game of current players outside of daicos and cripps (which are obviously distorted by the 2024 results but good on them anyway). This is an all time great player by that kind of measure.

I do agree there isn’t a giant chasm between them as players.

For most of his career Neale has been a lower impact, high possession mid whom the umps love. He’s still really good.

Bont with 2 less brownlows is a better player.

 

[H00t]

Those first quarter numbers are absolutely damning for both teams. Yes Brisbane lifted to bring the pressure in the second but a good team would have put them away if they produced those numbers.

It also sums up how the first quarter felt. A very low pressure game. More preseason than grand final.

 

[mustang]

We quite literally came in for praise from media for how balanced our side is and how many forwards you have to stop to get the better of us.
Who were you watching in 2024?

I agree with you the kids were great and will get better for the experience, just needs more attacking players in there it's getting there but, it's not a premiership forward line yet.

I was laughing at the first part of what you wrote.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Those first quarter numbers are absolutely damning for both teams. Yes Brisbane lifted to bring the pressure in the second but a good team would have put them away if they produced those numbers.

It also sums up how the first quarter felt. A very low pressure game. More preseason than grand final.

I really enjoyed the first quarter.

The constant pressure wasn't there, but a few hard moments stood out, likely due to being in isolation now we have the low pressure rating as a reference.

Both teams first two goals were identical.
Grind out your first, then follow it up immediately from a centre clearance. Crowd going Bananas. Felt like Grand Final day early.
At quarter time I thought we were in for a classic, but it turns out that somehow Sydney had already fired their best shot.

 

[SSSSSS]

Can't believe King gave junk-time Parker votes for BOG.

He was responsible for Andrews who was a brick wall in the first half intercepting everything with Starcevich.

3 Junk time goals isn't vote worthy in a 10 goal shellacking.